| What defines a big club 07:04 - Aug 24 with 8799 views | onceablue |
There has been a lot of talk what defines a big club
Is it the number of trophies won?
Is it the history?
Is it the size of the crowds they get in the past or now?
My guess is that almost every club in Prem/Champ would if asked consider they were a big club apart perhaps from likes off Burton
Look at the likes of Blackpool lots of trophies famous players big crowds back in the day can they be considered a big club?
Here is a randomness list off clubs please put in order in way of biggest clubs
Notts forest. Villa, Ipswich, west ham,Stoke, Newcastle, Ipswich,derby, man it'd , Chelsea Sheffield Wednesday
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| What defines a big club on 07:19 - Aug 24 with 6968 views | TractorCam |
United, Chelsea, Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Forest, Wednesday, Derby, Ipswich, Stoke
I think all the things mentioned come into consideration, i mainly think of the trophies/ history hence why I have Stoke bottom with the other clubs names. Obviously in special cases like Chelsea, then them winning trophies every year is better than trophies use to won. Can't see United ever not being the biggest club in England. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 07:59 - Aug 24 with 6891 views | GeoffSentence |
According to Look Norfolk the size of a football club is determined solely by its financial turnover. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 08:17 - Aug 24 with 6859 views | Pendejo |
| What defines a big club on 07:19 - Aug 24 by TractorCam |
United, Chelsea, Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Forest, Wednesday, Derby, Ipswich, Stoke
I think all the things mentioned come into consideration, i mainly think of the trophies/ history hence why I have Stoke bottom with the other clubs names. Obviously in special cases like Chelsea, then them winning trophies every year is better than trophies use to won. Can't see United ever not being the biggest club in England. |
Pretty much agree with your analysis and order of teams... other than we are last purely because Stoke have been a Prem fixture for X years, and, our last trophy was 36 years ago now.
In fact I'd put Stoke ahead of Forest, Wednesday & Villa, solely due to fact they are currently comfortable Prem.
Purely in terms of achievements over, say, last 40 years Forest should be 3rd after Manure and the Chelsea Girls.
As we live in the now we have to accept our friends north of the border have been the bigger club for most of this millennium... and when we did get ahead of them boy did we do ourselves proud. Years or lower mid-table prem v THAT season [2000/2001] |  |
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| What defines a big club on 08:26 - Aug 24 with 6822 views | Mullet |
| What defines a big club on 08:17 - Aug 24 by Pendejo |
Pretty much agree with your analysis and order of teams... other than we are last purely because Stoke have been a Prem fixture for X years, and, our last trophy was 36 years ago now.
In fact I'd put Stoke ahead of Forest, Wednesday & Villa, solely due to fact they are currently comfortable Prem.
Purely in terms of achievements over, say, last 40 years Forest should be 3rd after Manure and the Chelsea Girls.
As we live in the now we have to accept our friends north of the border have been the bigger club for most of this millennium... and when we did get ahead of them boy did we do ourselves proud. Years or lower mid-table prem v THAT season [2000/2001] |
They've never been bigger. No one remembers them unless you mention Luis Suarez or that Balotelli goal, maybe the drunk old bird on the pitch.
They're basically the butt of everybody else's jokes when it comes to their Prem career.
A 4th rate Newcastle essentially penned in their little corner of England at the end of the A11. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 08:29 - Aug 24 with 6828 views | PJH |
I think that there is a difference between being a famous club and being a big club.
We are a famous club mostly due to the SAR and SBR years,Blackpool are famous mostly because of Stanley Matthews and the 1953 F.A. Cup win.
Notts Forest famous due mostly to Brian Clough.
Of course some clubs are neither big nor famous. |  | | |
| What defines a big club on 09:59 - Aug 24 with 6723 views | blue_oyster |
In footballing terms, an amount of people who regularly attend games. In financial terms, turnover. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 11:03 - Aug 24 with 6681 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| What defines a big club on 09:59 - Aug 24 by blue_oyster |
In footballing terms, an amount of people who regularly attend games. In financial terms, turnover. |
'In footballing terms, an amount of people who regularly attend games'
So West Ham in footballing terms are a bigger team than Liverpool? Don't be silly |  |
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| What defines a big club on 11:21 - Aug 24 with 6648 views | MedwayTractor |
Another criterion might be to consider whether a club is in a dominant position now, or has the potential to join the existing elite. Finishing in the top third of the table on a regular basis, winning trophies and competing regularly in Europe all count towards this definition.
Current dominant clubs can be defined by recent success, purchasing power and fan base, therefore will include Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, both Manchester clubs and Spurs. A few other Prem clubs might be able to muscle in, but, to be a big club, joining this elite must be sustainable in the longer term. Clubs in this category are those such as Everton, Newcastle, West Ham.
Outside the Prem, I would add clubs with the potential to get promoted, stay up and become successful year after year. In this category, I would have Aston Villa, Leeds, Nottm Forest, Portsmouth, Sheffield Weds, Sunderland and Wolves. You might call these the sleeping giants.
I'd say that a number of clubs, Town included, have the potential to succeed in the shorter term, but these would not be classed as truly big clubs.
Outside the present elite, all this depends, however, on clubs being run on sound principles. The flaw, of course, is that the number of places at the top table is far fewer than the number of current and potential diners. Ask Leeds and Peter Ridsdale what can go wrong! |  |
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| What defines a big club on 11:31 - Aug 24 with 6634 views | monty_radio |
| What defines a big club on 08:29 - Aug 24 by PJH |
I think that there is a difference between being a famous club and being a big club.
We are a famous club mostly due to the SAR and SBR years,Blackpool are famous mostly because of Stanley Matthews and the 1953 F.A. Cup win.
Notts Forest famous due mostly to Brian Clough.
Of course some clubs are neither big nor famous. |
Agreed. We oldies growing up in the early sixties had heard that Wolves were big because recently successful and well-followed. Man U and Spurs were certainly big, Liverpool yet to come back into national notice. Chelsea were beyond our attention till the King's Road set turned up.
Since then, Leeds, Derby, Notts F, Town have all had lengthy moments in the sun, but the Premier League has become so big that, for most younger fans, it is the start of the definition of being "big". The old phrase "sleeping giant" intermittently, yet regularly applied to such as Sheff Wed, Leeds has little resonance now unless they reclaim and hold onto Prem status. Only then will their undoubtedly strong fanbase be truly factored in to the modern definition of bigness.
Can any club not regularly in the top seven or so now be accorded the "big club" accolade? Newcastle would disagree, yet from outside looking on, though their fanbase is big, their propensity for being shambolic is much more likely to make it large. | |
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| What defines a big club on 12:00 - Aug 24 with 6602 views | Colin_Viljoen |
| What defines a big club on 11:31 - Aug 24 by monty_radio |
Agreed. We oldies growing up in the early sixties had heard that Wolves were big because recently successful and well-followed. Man U and Spurs were certainly big, Liverpool yet to come back into national notice. Chelsea were beyond our attention till the King's Road set turned up.
Since then, Leeds, Derby, Notts F, Town have all had lengthy moments in the sun, but the Premier League has become so big that, for most younger fans, it is the start of the definition of being "big". The old phrase "sleeping giant" intermittently, yet regularly applied to such as Sheff Wed, Leeds has little resonance now unless they reclaim and hold onto Prem status. Only then will their undoubtedly strong fanbase be truly factored in to the modern definition of bigness.
Can any club not regularly in the top seven or so now be accorded the "big club" accolade? Newcastle would disagree, yet from outside looking on, though their fanbase is big, their propensity for being shambolic is much more likely to make it large. |
There was a game last night Bournemouth v Brighton........ I just think of them as two 3rd division teams, how the hell did we miss the gravy train? |  | | |
| What defines a big club on 12:11 - Aug 24 with 6579 views | PJH |
| What defines a big club on 11:31 - Aug 24 by monty_radio |
Agreed. We oldies growing up in the early sixties had heard that Wolves were big because recently successful and well-followed. Man U and Spurs were certainly big, Liverpool yet to come back into national notice. Chelsea were beyond our attention till the King's Road set turned up.
Since then, Leeds, Derby, Notts F, Town have all had lengthy moments in the sun, but the Premier League has become so big that, for most younger fans, it is the start of the definition of being "big". The old phrase "sleeping giant" intermittently, yet regularly applied to such as Sheff Wed, Leeds has little resonance now unless they reclaim and hold onto Prem status. Only then will their undoubtedly strong fanbase be truly factored in to the modern definition of bigness.
Can any club not regularly in the top seven or so now be accorded the "big club" accolade? Newcastle would disagree, yet from outside looking on, though their fanbase is big, their propensity for being shambolic is much more likely to make it large. |
My uncles were Wolves fans and they were THE club in the late 1950's.
Matt Busby had created good teams at Man U and Bill Nicholson at Spurs(they even won the League!).
Liverpool were just an ordinary 2nd division club until Bill Shankley got hold of them and they then became famous.
Similarly Leeds before Don Revie.
I agree that you can now only be a big club if you are established towards the top of the PL but that does not stop us and some others being famous clubs. | | | |
| What defines a big club on 12:20 - Aug 24 with 6569 views | monty_radio |
| What defines a big club on 12:00 - Aug 24 by Colin_Viljoen |
There was a game last night Bournemouth v Brighton........ I just think of them as two 3rd division teams, how the hell did we miss the gravy train? |
Indeed. I have similar thoughts when I look at an upcoming weekend fixture list:
Stoke, Watford, Leicester, Burnley - all clubs with no history of anything much in living memory. It looks like the bottom reaches of the old Div 2.
Incidentally, Viljoen. "Ace" - in spite of all the greats that followed directly after him I'd still have him in my all-time Town team. What a complete and gifted player! | |
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| What defines a big club on 12:29 - Aug 24 with 6550 views | PJH |
| What defines a big club on 12:20 - Aug 24 by monty_radio |
Indeed. I have similar thoughts when I look at an upcoming weekend fixture list:
Stoke, Watford, Leicester, Burnley - all clubs with no history of anything much in living memory. It looks like the bottom reaches of the old Div 2.
Incidentally, Viljoen. "Ace" - in spite of all the greats that followed directly after him I'd still have him in my all-time Town team. What a complete and gifted player! |
Depends on how far back you want to go in "history" because Burnley won the League two years before we did and were runners up to us in 1962 as well as F.A.Cup runners up-if I was a Burnley supporter I would claim that they had a history based on that.
I can't find a place for Viljoen in my all-time side but that is only because we have been blessed with some really outstanding players. | | | |
| What defines a big club on 12:31 - Aug 24 with 6536 views | blue_oyster |
| What defines a big club on 11:03 - Aug 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
'In footballing terms, an amount of people who regularly attend games'
So West Ham in footballing terms are a bigger team than Liverpool? Don't be silly |
They are now. | |
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| What defines a big club on 13:11 - Aug 24 with 6497 views | TJS |
Big clubs complete list: Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Leeds
Medium sized clubs: Leicester, West Ham, Stoke, Birmingham, Sunderland, Ipswich, Norwich, Derby, Wednesday, Forest...
Small Clubs: Burton, Wigan, Bournemouth... |  | | |
| What defines a big club on 13:51 - Aug 24 with 6429 views | TheBlueBarca |
Major honours won, plus years in top flight and support.
In Britain those are..
Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Celtic
Then you have the medium sized clubs such as ..
Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Nottingham Forrest, Leicester, Aston Villa, Derby County, Sunderland, Newcastle United
Anything below those historically hasn't really achieved all that much or been that well supported. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 13:54 - Aug 24 with 6418 views | TheBlueBarca |
| What defines a big club on 11:21 - Aug 24 by MedwayTractor |
Another criterion might be to consider whether a club is in a dominant position now, or has the potential to join the existing elite. Finishing in the top third of the table on a regular basis, winning trophies and competing regularly in Europe all count towards this definition.
Current dominant clubs can be defined by recent success, purchasing power and fan base, therefore will include Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, both Manchester clubs and Spurs. A few other Prem clubs might be able to muscle in, but, to be a big club, joining this elite must be sustainable in the longer term. Clubs in this category are those such as Everton, Newcastle, West Ham.
Outside the Prem, I would add clubs with the potential to get promoted, stay up and become successful year after year. In this category, I would have Aston Villa, Leeds, Nottm Forest, Portsmouth, Sheffield Weds, Sunderland and Wolves. You might call these the sleeping giants.
I'd say that a number of clubs, Town included, have the potential to succeed in the shorter term, but these would not be classed as truly big clubs.
Outside the present elite, all this depends, however, on clubs being run on sound principles. The flaw, of course, is that the number of places at the top table is far fewer than the number of current and potential diners. Ask Leeds and Peter Ridsdale what can go wrong! |
Ipswich was a big club from the early 60's to the early 1980's but once Robson left we dropped off.
Aside from a brief return to the top end of English football under Burley we have only managed 5 seasons of top flight football in the last 30 years, winning no major trophies, with our gates aside from a splurt between 2001-06 being pretty poor too.
We cannot be considered a big club by any stretch of the imagination. | |
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| What defines a big club on 14:16 - Aug 24 with 6375 views | noggin |
| What defines a big club on 13:51 - Aug 24 by TheBlueBarca |
Major honours won, plus years in top flight and support.
In Britain those are..
Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Celtic
Then you have the medium sized clubs such as ..
Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Nottingham Forrest, Leicester, Aston Villa, Derby County, Sunderland, Newcastle United
Anything below those historically hasn't really achieved all that much or been that well supported. |
Rangers? |  |
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| What defines a big club on 14:24 - Aug 24 with 6359 views | Radlett_blue |
| What defines a big club on 13:51 - Aug 24 by TheBlueBarca |
Major honours won, plus years in top flight and support.
In Britain those are..
Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Celtic
Then you have the medium sized clubs such as ..
Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Nottingham Forrest, Leicester, Aston Villa, Derby County, Sunderland, Newcastle United
Anything below those historically hasn't really achieved all that much or been that well supported. |
I generally agree with most of your list, though the criteria used are selective.
I would say the criteria are major trophies won, years in the top flight & average attendance.
Man City wouldn't qualify as big, certainly not ahead of Spurs & Everton. I would put all 3 in the 2nd tier, along with Leeds, Villa, Newcastle.
Nottingham Forest are medium at best - only ever successful under Clough. We are similar, along with Derby, Leicester etc. |  |
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| What defines a big club on 14:31 - Aug 24 with 6343 views | SE1blue |
Anything larger than a rounders bat? |  |
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| What defines a big club on 16:09 - Aug 24 with 6281 views | monty_radio |
| What defines a big club on 13:51 - Aug 24 by TheBlueBarca |
Major honours won, plus years in top flight and support.
In Britain those are..
Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Celtic
Then you have the medium sized clubs such as ..
Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Nottingham Forrest, Leicester, Aston Villa, Derby County, Sunderland, Newcastle United
Anything below those historically hasn't really achieved all that much or been that well supported. |
That gives you an awful lot of chips to fit into in a regular size bag.
Also, re your other response, while 60s - 80's defined whatever bigness Town can historically lay claim to, those 25 seasons also encompass the Duncan and Milburn years and the occasional home gate of below 10k. | |
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| What defines a big club on 18:58 - Aug 24 with 6197 views | bournemouthblue |
| What defines a big club on 08:17 - Aug 24 by Pendejo |
Pretty much agree with your analysis and order of teams... other than we are last purely because Stoke have been a Prem fixture for X years, and, our last trophy was 36 years ago now.
In fact I'd put Stoke ahead of Forest, Wednesday & Villa, solely due to fact they are currently comfortable Prem.
Purely in terms of achievements over, say, last 40 years Forest should be 3rd after Manure and the Chelsea Girls.
As we live in the now we have to accept our friends north of the border have been the bigger club for most of this millennium... and when we did get ahead of them boy did we do ourselves proud. Years or lower mid-table prem v THAT season [2000/2001] |
Most of this Millennium, I wouldn't be surprised if we have finished above them in virtually half those seasons? |  |
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| What defines a big club on 19:04 - Aug 24 with 6184 views | bournemouthblue |
| What defines a big club on 13:54 - Aug 24 by TheBlueBarca |
Ipswich was a big club from the early 60's to the early 1980's but once Robson left we dropped off.
Aside from a brief return to the top end of English football under Burley we have only managed 5 seasons of top flight football in the last 30 years, winning no major trophies, with our gates aside from a splurt between 2001-06 being pretty poor too.
We cannot be considered a big club by any stretch of the imagination. |
Although our attendances have held out far better than many rival clubs
I'm sure if we got back up, we could quickly sort ourselves out both on and off the field | |
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| What defines a big club on 19:09 - Aug 24 with 6169 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| What defines a big club on 12:31 - Aug 24 by blue_oyster |
They are now. |
Utter sh1te | |
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| What defines a big club on 19:10 - Aug 24 with 6165 views | Colin_Viljoen |
Ok Iv'e redefined a big club as anybody who has won our 2 biggest competitions the league & FA cup!
Therefore, we are in lol | | | |
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