| Oh Toney 10:55 - May 26 with 4104 views | FrimleyBlue |
Yep 8 months doesn't seem strong enough now imo.
Betting against your side is a big no no as a fan let alone a player! |  |
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| Oh Toney on 10:57 - May 26 with 3371 views | J2BLUE |
Should be a career ender but he's too good so it won't happen. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 10:57 - May 26 with 3368 views | clive_baker |
Certainly takes the case to a completely different level. I've always had some sympathy for players being done betting on a rogue Scottish League 2 game or something, although I understand why they shouldn't be allowed. Betting on your own team to lose is a direct conflict of interests though and completely unforgivable. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 10:59 - May 26 with 3336 views | BseaBlue |
Initially I was quite sympathetic due to the amount of bookies that flood the game with money and the expectations of keeping players (who thrive on competition) away from it.
This is a game changer though! |  | | |
| Oh Toney on 11:01 - May 26 with 3315 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Oh Toney on 10:57 - May 26 by clive_baker |
Certainly takes the case to a completely different level. I've always had some sympathy for players being done betting on a rogue Scottish League 2 game or something, although I understand why they shouldn't be allowed. Betting on your own team to lose is a direct conflict of interests though and completely unforgivable. |
He didn't play in any of the games that he bet on the team to lose though, so not quite as bad as it seems. Still grotty behaviour, but he had no way of impacting the outcome. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 11:03 - May 26 with 3267 views | StokieBlue |
| Oh Toney on 11:01 - May 26 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
He didn't play in any of the games that he bet on the team to lose though, so not quite as bad as it seems. Still grotty behaviour, but he had no way of impacting the outcome. |
He may have had inside information on the fitness of players though including himself not playing. He might also have known how they were setting up (ie. all out for the win, defensive etc).
"The full findings of the investigation into the Brentford striker’s gambling have been published and reveal that Toney bet on himself to score on 15 occasions before it was common knowledge that he would be playing in the games concerned."
It's pushing the offence to another level in my opinion.
SB
Edit: Just seen the latest piece of news that the ban length was shortened due to diagnosis of gambling addiction which seems appropriate. [Post edited 26 May 2023 11:29]
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| Oh Toney on 11:05 - May 26 with 3231 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Oh Toney on 11:03 - May 26 by StokieBlue |
He may have had inside information on the fitness of players though including himself not playing. He might also have known how they were setting up (ie. all out for the win, defensive etc).
"The full findings of the investigation into the Brentford striker’s gambling have been published and reveal that Toney bet on himself to score on 15 occasions before it was common knowledge that he would be playing in the games concerned."
It's pushing the offence to another level in my opinion.
SB
Edit: Just seen the latest piece of news that the ban length was shortened due to diagnosis of gambling addiction which seems appropriate. [Post edited 26 May 2023 11:29]
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Yeah possibly. On the flip side, he could have just been betting in spite. Either way I wouldn't be happy as a fan or an employer. I think the ban is an OK length, but should have started at the beginning of next season rather than now. | |
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| Oh Toney on 11:10 - May 26 with 3182 views | Guthrum |
| Oh Toney on 11:05 - May 26 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
Yeah possibly. On the flip side, he could have just been betting in spite. Either way I wouldn't be happy as a fan or an employer. I think the ban is an OK length, but should have started at the beginning of next season rather than now. |
There should also perhaps be a stipulation that he actually gets treatment for his gambling addiction, too. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 11:13 - May 26 with 3148 views | iamatractorboy |
Le Tissier admitted (years later) to betting on the timing of the first throw in a match in which he was playing, didn't he? He said he got the ball off the kick off and just smacked it straight out of play. The story is quite funny but when you think about it, is pretty shocking. Although I don't suppose the FA could do much about that one given he was retired when he admitted it. | | | |
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| Oh Toney on 11:16 - May 26 with 3113 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Oh Toney on 11:03 - May 26 by StokieBlue |
He may have had inside information on the fitness of players though including himself not playing. He might also have known how they were setting up (ie. all out for the win, defensive etc).
"The full findings of the investigation into the Brentford striker’s gambling have been published and reveal that Toney bet on himself to score on 15 occasions before it was common knowledge that he would be playing in the games concerned."
It's pushing the offence to another level in my opinion.
SB
Edit: Just seen the latest piece of news that the ban length was shortened due to diagnosis of gambling addiction which seems appropriate. [Post edited 26 May 2023 11:29]
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Yep, the rules are there for a reason including stopping potential conflicts of interest. He’s got no excuse really and is lucky the penalty is so light. The Peterborough fan banned from the ground for 3 years may be feeling relatively hard done by (although what he did was horrible of course). |  |
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| Oh Toney on 11:17 - May 26 with 3115 views | Trequartista |
| Oh Toney on 11:01 - May 26 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
He didn't play in any of the games that he bet on the team to lose though, so not quite as bad as it seems. Still grotty behaviour, but he had no way of impacting the outcome. |
Also, 11 out of the 13 bets "against his own team" were against Newcastle while he was on loan at Wigan and Scunthorpe, which makes a nice headline, but there were really only 2 bets against his own team (Wigan) in games he didn't play in.
Of course he should still be punished, but the punishment fits the crime in my opinion |  |
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| Oh Toney on 11:19 - May 26 with 3106 views | Vegtablue |
Summary for anyone that doesn't listen to the video:
He didn't bet against his team in any match where he was in the squad. No professionalism or maturity on display here but importantly no match-fixing either. Bets on his team when in the squad were for them to win or him to score. Doesn't scream team player lol but again it speaks more to the player's mindset at the time, rather than the integrity of the game. Would have been 15 months but reduced to 8 due to a psychiatrist's assessment that the player has a gambling addiction. | | | |
| Oh Toney on 11:24 - May 26 with 3043 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Oh Toney on 11:10 - May 26 by Guthrum |
There should also perhaps be a stipulation that he actually gets treatment for his gambling addiction, too. |
Agreed, that really should be a part of it. It does seem plausible that he is an addict - making repeated poor choices to gamble when you know the consequences. Without that treatment it will be easy for people to dismiss that as an excuse with little behind it. | |
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| Oh Toney on 11:26 - May 26 with 3022 views | MattinLondon |
| Oh Toney on 11:19 - May 26 by Vegtablue |
Summary for anyone that doesn't listen to the video:
He didn't bet against his team in any match where he was in the squad. No professionalism or maturity on display here but importantly no match-fixing either. Bets on his team when in the squad were for them to win or him to score. Doesn't scream team player lol but again it speaks more to the player's mindset at the time, rather than the integrity of the game. Would have been 15 months but reduced to 8 due to a psychiatrist's assessment that the player has a gambling addiction. |
But a player can have an indirect influence on the match - a word in the ear of a player lacking in confidence etc.
Also, he could have bet on his team winning 2-0 - and then missing a guilt-edged chance to win 3-0. Goal difference could have a bearing on teams in the league.
Addiction does make outwardly rational and functional individuals behave irrationally. He needs help but the FA do need to act strongly on this as well. [Post edited 26 May 2023 11:36]
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| Oh Toney on 11:27 - May 26 with 3009 views | noggin |
| Oh Toney on 10:57 - May 26 by J2BLUE |
Should be a career ender but he's too good so it won't happen. |
I'm not convinced career ending punishments for an addiction actually achieve much. The 8 months will hopefully give him time to seek help and to reflect on his future. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 11:33 - May 26 with 2956 views | Vegtablue |
| Oh Toney on 11:26 - May 26 by MattinLondon |
But a player can have an indirect influence on the match - a word in the ear of a player lacking in confidence etc.
Also, he could have bet on his team winning 2-0 - and then missing a guilt-edged chance to win 3-0. Goal difference could have a bearing on teams in the league.
Addiction does make outwardly rational and functional individuals behave irrationally. He needs help but the FA do need to act strongly on this as well. [Post edited 26 May 2023 11:36]
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I don't mean to pass comment on the sentence or length of time. If it isn't long enough to deter footballers from doing it then it should be longer IMO.
I'm confident bets on his team to win didn't involve scoreline restrictions though, as am I confident the indirect influence you speak of didn't happen. When I read the headline I thought we were talking about genuine match-fixing here, but I can totally see why the FA's conclusions rule this out. | | | |
| Oh Toney on 11:38 - May 26 with 2905 views | Guthrum |
| Oh Toney on 11:24 - May 26 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
Agreed, that really should be a part of it. It does seem plausible that he is an addict - making repeated poor choices to gamble when you know the consequences. Without that treatment it will be easy for people to dismiss that as an excuse with little behind it. |
I have a friend who is a gambling addict. It's a real, driving compulsion to keep putting bets on, chasing losses, always trying to get/"borrow"/beg money which is gone a day or so later. Can't bear to put small amounts on, has to throw as much as possible at short odds "dead certs", which more often turn out to be dead beats.
Effectively an illness, which neads treatment. Unfortunately, my friend is still at the "Isn't a problem, I don't do it that much any more" stage. | |
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| Oh Toney on 11:42 - May 26 with 2853 views | Illinoisblue |
| Oh Toney on 11:13 - May 26 by iamatractorboy |
Le Tissier admitted (years later) to betting on the timing of the first throw in a match in which he was playing, didn't he? He said he got the ball off the kick off and just smacked it straight out of play. The story is quite funny but when you think about it, is pretty shocking. Although I don't suppose the FA could do much about that one given he was retired when he admitted it. |
Surprised to hear that given how sane and normal he’s been in retirement |  |
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| Oh Toney on 12:06 - May 26 with 2700 views | RonFearonsHair |
| Oh Toney on 11:01 - May 26 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
He didn't play in any of the games that he bet on the team to lose though, so not quite as bad as it seems. Still grotty behaviour, but he had no way of impacting the outcome. |
He could have been betting on them to lose before the team sheets were released, knowing that the odds would subsequently drift and allowing him to cash out for a profit before a ball is even kicked. |  | | |
| Oh Toney on 12:11 - May 26 with 2653 views | LankHenners |
| Oh Toney on 10:57 - May 26 by J2BLUE |
Should be a career ender but he's too good so it won't happen. |
That would be an irresponsible and pretty stupid thing to do. |  |
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| Oh Toney on 12:52 - May 26 with 2391 views | J2BLUE |
| Oh Toney on 12:11 - May 26 by LankHenners |
That would be an irresponsible and pretty stupid thing to do. |
At the time I posted that I didn't know he had a gambling addiction. I hadn't watched that clip as i'm at work. | |
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| Oh Toney on 13:05 - May 26 with 2289 views | hochiblue |
Kaye, Lane and Swan went to prison for this.
Strangely, betting against their team (SW) to lose to Ipswich! | | | |
| Oh Toney on 13:06 - May 26 with 2281 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Oh Toney on 11:38 - May 26 by Guthrum |
I have a friend who is a gambling addict. It's a real, driving compulsion to keep putting bets on, chasing losses, always trying to get/"borrow"/beg money which is gone a day or so later. Can't bear to put small amounts on, has to throw as much as possible at short odds "dead certs", which more often turn out to be dead beats.
Effectively an illness, which neads treatment. Unfortunately, my friend is still at the "Isn't a problem, I don't do it that much any more" stage. |
Completely agree with that. A friend of mine can't say no to a fruit machine, online slots, any of those sorts of things. During a time when we worked together, I saw him dump an entire month's bonus into a combination of games over the course of a few hours. That was something of a turning point for him in that after that he got us to place all sorts of locks on which websites he could visit.
Still he would find ways to get around it and we ended up having something akin to an intervention for him, but he won't initiate treatment. He certainly seems much better than he used to but fruit machines and scratch cards are like kryptonite for him. If our group meets at a pub, one of us will always get there about 10 minutes earlier than planned to intercept him before he gets to the machine. That said, he often walks in clutching scratch cards. His wife worries about leaving him alone because he will compulsively go to the shop to pick up more cards. We're not really sure what else we can do because he just will not engage with treatment because he is doing better than before. My concern is that he has a secret phone or logins and is still gambling huge amounts away. | |
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| Oh Toney on 13:14 - May 26 with 2201 views | yorkshireblue |
Am I right in thinking the vast majority of bets were before he joined Brentford?
If so, does seem harsh on them. But equally, I'm not sure what else could have happened other than a ban of some sort. |  | | |
| Oh Toney on 13:20 - May 26 with 2150 views | iamatractorboy |
| Oh Toney on 13:05 - May 26 by hochiblue |
Kaye, Lane and Swan went to prison for this.
Strangely, betting against their team (SW) to lose to Ipswich! |
I vaguely remember a (BBC?) TV drama about that, many years ago! Around that time there was an interview with one of the players and he said something like 'we didn't need to throw it, Ipswich were a good side and we were always going to lose anyway'. | | | |
| Oh Toney on 13:33 - May 26 with 2077 views | Radlett_blue |
| Oh Toney on 13:20 - May 26 by iamatractorboy |
I vaguely remember a (BBC?) TV drama about that, many years ago! Around that time there was an interview with one of the players and he said something like 'we didn't need to throw it, Ipswich were a good side and we were always going to lose anyway'. |
In late 1962, Sheffield Wednesday player David Layne suggested that Wednesday were likely to lose their match on 1 December 1962 against Ipswich Town and suggested to his fellow players Peter Swan and Tony Kay that they ensure the outcome. The three all bet against their own side in the match, which Ipswich won 2—0 with two goals from Ray Crawford. In an interview with The Times newspaper in July 2006, Peter Swan said "We lost the game fair and square, but I still don’t know what I’d have done if we’d been winning. It would have been easy for me to give away a penalty or even score an own goal. Who knows?” |  |
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