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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 13:58 - May 1 by Durovigutum
Every time in history we’ve upgraded the ground the following years have been a financial mess and the team decimated to fund the shortfall. Can we concentrate on the team and properly consolidating for a few years first please? Bournemouth and Luton have proven that ground size isn’t key. This isn’t to say that I disagree with the premise that real fans in the ground is best.
When I visited Chicago they had essentially flats across the road from Wrigley Park with essentially a few rows of seats on the rooftops. Wrigley Rooftops I think they were called.. now there's a quick solution haha
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:07 - May 1 with 1069 views
Would be the most we'd ever need tbh and close to that would be achievable by cobbold redevelopment. The other stands eventually could be made better (long time off) but probably don't need to be bigger
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:11 - May 1 with 1047 views
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 13:48 - May 1 by _clive_baker_
No I'm sure they will but initially we're talking about 19 games, most of which probably wouldn't benefit from a new stand as it wouldn't be built in time. I think we need to prove our ability to stay at that level first personally, and we all know how difficult that would be given the uncompetitive nature of that division.
All need to get working on the the necessary preparation, drawing up plans, discussions with partners so that when the time comes we are ready for an immediate start.
That would be after a successful year in Premier League.
When you are filling your ground for every match and have a waiting list for season tickets you are effectively turning support away every week. Consider the family areas of the ground, each and every year decisions are being made, within households, that now is the right time to get junior that first season ticket. If current occupants of family areas don’t have anywhere to move to they remain in their current seats depriving the next generation access.
Like it, or not, the ground has to be expanded.
Doubt capacity could realistically increased above 38/39,000. It may be this could be done in stages. Another thing to consider is need for increased hospitality and presumably a larger press area. That might mean moving some season ticket holders.
Nice to have to face such issues but there is a cost to be met.
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:07 - May 1 by Ftnfwest
Would be the most we'd ever need tbh and close to that would be achievable by cobbold redevelopment. The other stands eventually could be made better (long time off) but probably don't need to be bigger
Agreed.
I think it's important to remember that there's ridiculous momentum and demand for tickets right now off the back of, frankly, a ludicrous 2 years after literally decades of largely dross. Huge pent up demand and excitement, but medium term that's likely to cool one way or another, whether it be stabilising in the premier league or coming back down again if we go up, or staying down this year.
St Mary's and King Power hold <33k. Amex holds 31k. Brentford 18k. Craven Cottage will be 28k with the latest development. Molineux 32k. City Ground 31k. I don't think the club will knee jerk into anything too drastic off the back of the last few months alone.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:20 - May 1 with 1008 views
Is this not a similar scenario to when we were last in the EPL and we redeveloped the Bobby Robson and Sir Alf stands? I'm always a glass half empty type of guy, it is going to require a lot of investment simply to stay in that league as clubs have shown recently, overstretching ourselves financially is a big concern I have. This idea of the EPL being the promised land couldn't be further from the truth and that's the sad reality the club will need to weigh up. What will be our aim?
Given how structured, planned and organised everything has become under Gamechanger, I think they’re bound to do their homework on this and get the expertise in if they don’t have it. I doubt they’d go for the kind of ill thought out ‘ride the wave’ management the Board showed in 2001.
I think 35k is enough capacity and that won’t be for some years. Training Ground is the priority at the moment and finishing the boxes in Pioneer Stand. Maybe do some upgrades to the facilities underneath it and something better than the circus tent on the old training pitch - a fanzone upgrade.
Whatever, it’s very exciting!
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:28 - May 1 with 970 views
It depends how ambitious the club is. . If we can continue investing and building a sustainable football club that keeps growing year on year, we would attract a lot of interest nationally and internationally too. We have many supporters that support Ipswich due to the Robson/Ramsey years. The same could happen with 'the McKenna years'. I mean, how many Man Utd fans come from Manchester?
Demographics help too, and 40,000 new homes = 2,350 season tickets. So it depends on the scope, desire and plans for growing the population in Suffolk too.
I would like to see us eat into West Ham's support base, and mop up more of Herts, Cambs and Norfolk.
I would really like to see us in a packed out 45,000 stadium, with a really tight joined up football club, where like last night, we start to sing 'Blue Army' on repeat whilst a player is just down, it almost becomes a trendy club to support due to its unique synergy between owners, players and supporters. So the identity of the football club is defined by what it stands for.
True inclusivity (we should reach out to all communities around the area - we are still predominantly, white middle aged males attending matches).
We should probably sort our green credentials by looking at supporter travel to the matches.
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:21 - May 1 by AlexMathie
It’s not so much the capacity added to a ground, but the revenue generated.
This is exactly why the ticket revenue bit is a red herring. The value in the development isn't just in getting an extra few thousand fans in, it's more on the commercial side and making it 'sweat' 24/7. That's why most modern grounds have hotels, gym, swimming pools, all sorts of other stuff. It's not just your ticket income you're increasing, but your commercial revenues too and that's the big ticket. 4,000 additional fans paying £40 a ticket in the premier league is about £3m a year. Relatively insignificant, and not all that compelling as a payback on a £100m investment. The potential to increase commercial revenues would dwarf that £3m and that's when it becomes juicy.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:33 - May 1 with 937 views
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:11 - May 1 by Pinewoodblue
All need to get working on the the necessary preparation, drawing up plans, discussions with partners so that when the time comes we are ready for an immediate start.
That would be after a successful year in Premier League.
When you are filling your ground for every match and have a waiting list for season tickets you are effectively turning support away every week. Consider the family areas of the ground, each and every year decisions are being made, within households, that now is the right time to get junior that first season ticket. If current occupants of family areas don’t have anywhere to move to they remain in their current seats depriving the next generation access.
Like it, or not, the ground has to be expanded.
Doubt capacity could realistically increased above 38/39,000. It may be this could be done in stages. Another thing to consider is need for increased hospitality and presumably a larger press area. That might mean moving some season ticket holders.
Nice to have to face such issues but there is a cost to be met.
I'm all for the club doing it, its really exciting and I'm very interested to see any proposals. I just think the priority is probably not actually around increasing the capacity to the max, but how it pays back as an asset that we can generate revenues from 24/7. 35k capacity is probably perfectly sufficient for our needs.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:34 - May 1 with 935 views
I don’t know what the correct number is going forward but it does need to be increased. Not only have we sold out all season, it’s been increasingly difficult to get tickets even with a membership.
Whilst I do see the argument that gate receipts are chicken feed compared to TV money, it is nonetheless important especially in these times of p&S/FFP. Spurs have understood the importance of this and now have the largest match day income in Europe I believe. But perhaps more importantly is engagement, if it gets to the point I can’t get tickets either via membership or season ticket id probably lose interest, especially as all games aren’t streamed as they are in the EFL. I could quickly lose the attachment to the club if it’s just watching the odd game on sky. Those with young kids as well may end up being alienated if they cannot get tickets and choose non-league or West Ham (cheapest ST in the PL). We don’t want to lose the next generation of fans.
At the end of the day it’s a spectator sport and that’s where the loyal fans are found. Casual sky supporters will soon dissapear at the first sign of tough times. You look at the top 6 PL teams all have big stadiums - TV money is not enough on its own for long term success.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:37 - May 1 with 918 views
I would love to see the stadium enlarged and I think 40k is a reasonable capacity for an established Premier League team.
However, the building of the Pioneer stand led to a big downfall, not all of which is due to BR leaving. While the expansion of Churchman's and rebuilding of the North were followed by going into administration. Again the blame for that can’t be landed all at the door of the collapse of ITV Digital.
In other words, expanding the ground has historically led to big problems.
Plus, the income from the TV deals dwarfs any financial benefit from extra gate receipts.
So I say: keep under review and reassess if we’re still in the PL in three seasons’ time.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:44 - May 1 with 887 views
I think it's important to work out how any work is funded. If it is funded via loans, then the interest of those loans counts against PSR and will drain reduce the playing budget. I think the ideal would be to finance any work through capital injection. I'd love it if say £50m of the £100m investment went to build the new stand.
Need to find a way to build for the future as Portman Road is arguably too small, but definitely lacks money making facilities which will be important to build the club into an established PL side.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:51 - May 1 with 862 views
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 13:58 - May 1 by Durovigutum
Every time in history we’ve upgraded the ground the following years have been a financial mess and the team decimated to fund the shortfall. Can we concentrate on the team and properly consolidating for a few years first please? Bournemouth and Luton have proven that ground size isn’t key. This isn’t to say that I disagree with the premise that real fans in the ground is best.
That 'every time' is twice, isn't it? And the second of those coincided with significant external circumstances (ITV Digital collapse) beyond the club's control. And in neither case did we have massive 'internal' funding behind us.
If not now, when?
# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 13:58 - May 1 by ElderGrizzly
Absolutely this. It's tiny in comparison to TV and is also the reason you rebuild the Cobbold in the PL not in the Championship. You can lose a stand and hardly notice it financially.
I tweeted the stats, but in relation to why TV trumps fan inconvenience rather than this point but the stats back this up too.
I think we would go to 40k depending on cost/space we have but not for 2 or 3 seasons of consolidation in the PL.
As much as they want more fans in, the business case just doesn't stack up straight away.
Chart showing why fans actually attending games are way down the considerations for Premier League clubs.
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 15:08 - May 1 by ElderGrizzly
They might want to fund the stand they knocked down first, which they appeared to be unable to do without a government grant?
...they appear unwilling to do, rather than unable. Why be willing when the government can step in, you don't become a multi-millionaire by giving your money away.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 15:52 - May 1 with 709 views
I wouldn't want to go above 35-36,000 but people need to grasp how captivated the fanbase is now and how many young fans have been hooked by the past two years on the pitch and the club's outreach/community work. They won't all stick with it but many of them will.
The comparisons with previous eras don't wash for me. We're in a completely different era with owners with deep pockets with international expertise on how to develop businesses. It's nothing like 2002 when we had a well-meaning board with no money themselves and ITV digital collapsed.
Plus, if we hadn't expanded the stadium in 2002, think what the ticket scramble for Saturday would be like.
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 15:55 - May 1 by Bobbychase
I wouldn't want to go above 35-36,000 but people need to grasp how captivated the fanbase is now and how many young fans have been hooked by the past two years on the pitch and the club's outreach/community work. They won't all stick with it but many of them will.
The comparisons with previous eras don't wash for me. We're in a completely different era with owners with deep pockets with international expertise on how to develop businesses. It's nothing like 2002 when we had a well-meaning board with no money themselves and ITV digital collapsed.
Plus, if we hadn't expanded the stadium in 2002, think what the ticket scramble for Saturday would be like.
I'm with the 35k route. Any more and when attendances do tail off (sadly, you can't be on the up forever) 18k in a 40k stadium is like having a tiny penis and having a go at rattling the oldest pro in the 'dam, good effort and all, but ultimately a souless experience (so I've heard).
Any development would likely be as mentioned, hotel, bars, restaurants etc. It'll be an event, taking West Ham fans would be a huge tast, they have all that lovely Stratford waterside etc to wander around and the Westfield area, families can make a day out of that no issues.
That ain't happening for a long time unless Ipswich get to host the Olympics in 2040.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 16:51 - May 1 with 631 views
35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 14:21 - May 1 by AlexMathie
It’s not so much the capacity added to a ground, but the revenue generated.
Yes. We have already seen the outline of the proposed new cobbold, it was soft revealed in the councils plan for the cattle market. The new stand is huge and contains massive internal areas to allow the club to hold conferences. it will have bigger corporate areas, other facilities and be finished to a much higher standard then bare breeze block.
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35k capacity ground isn't even enough is it? on 17:40 - May 1 with 543 views
I expect the new Cobbold stand optimal design v cost probably means that 35k is the sweet spot. Pushing things out to 40k may mean very different money that just doesn’t make sense. There might be some other options for the corners? Or a rebuild of the west stand in the future? Either way 35-40k is more than enough for now.
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