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The placebo effect is pretty powerful, so if people are willing to bypass sense and reason to get that, I am going to go out on a limb and say no harm done.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:44 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
Not sure why you've lost track, it's pretty clear if you follow the thread and you're intelligent enough to do so. I think you're just obfuscating rather than deal with the points raised.
No, you've crossed your wires so many times I honestly don't know what you are trying to say anymore. Your responses are muddled in my opinion.
Is it:
1) You believe the homeopathic remedy worked 2) You don't think it should or worked as you didn't expect it to 3) You thought it might work but when you found out it was homeopathic years later it should have stopped 4) None of the above (if so can you please clarify it again for me).
I've dealt with all the points you've raised, if anyone is obfuscating it's you as you refuse to look at the scientific aspect of it.
SB
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Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:50 - Sep 6 with 1108 views
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:40 - Sep 6 by wkj
That is a bit silly Dolly, I don't think of any medicine that has an absolute success rate, the difference is when the treatment success rate exceeds the mathematic threshold of chance and probability.
In my case, this homeopathic remedy DOES exceed the mathematic threshold of chance and probability. My symptoms ease directly after using it. People just saying, "No, it doesn't work, science says so," doesn't explain what I'm experiencing.
I'm sure if this happened for you, Stokers and others, you'd also be in my baffled position.
I know the guy who owns & runs one of the UKs biggest, if not the biggest, homeopathy retreats. It's in the west country. He is utterly minted and, when he and I were pished up at a wedding last year, I said to him "it's total bawlacks isnt it youre only doing it for the money" and he said "yes of course".
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:40 - Sep 6 by wkj
That is a bit silly Dolly, I don't think of any medicine that has an absolute success rate, the difference is when the treatment success rate exceeds the mathematic threshold of chance and probability.
Show us the study in which homeopathy, in double blind tests, does better than placebo.
There are none. Such tests demonstrate quite clearly that there is no demonstrable effect beyond placebo.
Its that simple.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:53 - Sep 6 by chicoazul
I know the guy who owns & runs one of the UKs biggest, if not the biggest, homeopathy retreats. It's in the west country. He is utterly minted and, when he and I were pished up at a wedding last year, I said to him "it's total bawlacks isnt it youre only doing it for the money" and he said "yes of course".
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:50 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
In my case, this homeopathic remedy DOES exceed the mathematic threshold of chance and probability. My symptoms ease directly after using it. People just saying, "No, it doesn't work, science says so," doesn't explain what I'm experiencing.
I'm sure if this happened for you, Stokers and others, you'd also be in my baffled position.
I get the feeling your responding to a flat percentage and not referring to an appropriate statistical analysis approach. Percentages mean nothing to me without context. Besides, I'm not berating your experience, but questioning what almost comes across as you being insulted that you've had a good placebo experience
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:55 - Sep 6 by wkj
I get the feeling your responding to a flat percentage and not referring to an appropriate statistical analysis approach. Percentages mean nothing to me without context. Besides, I'm not berating your experience, but questioning what almost comes across as you being insulted that you've had a good placebo experience
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 15:56]
Yay for placebo!
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:49 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue
No, you've crossed your wires so many times I honestly don't know what you are trying to say anymore. Your responses are muddled in my opinion.
Is it:
1) You believe the homeopathic remedy worked 2) You don't think it should or worked as you didn't expect it to 3) You thought it might work but when you found out it was homeopathic years later it should have stopped 4) None of the above (if so can you please clarify it again for me).
I've dealt with all the points you've raised, if anyone is obfuscating it's you as you refuse to look at the scientific aspect of it.
SB
I'm not refusing to look at the scientific aspect, I've answered it. I agree science says it doesn't work.
Points 1 and 2 are correct. I've never remotely said 3, you just made that up. Not sure why.
You accused me of reverting to magic... I've explained why I haven't. As I said, you appear to be putting lots of words in my mouth.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:46 - Sep 6 by Ryorry
"We know the make-up of the homeopathic remedies is the same as water down to molecular level - it's nothing like what you are equating it to."
I specifically told you Prof Smith put it down to nothing to do with water down to molecular level but to magnetic frequencies.
He was a scientist, you (as far as I'm aware) are not. I 'm going with him on this
There are countless articles in respected publications which disagree with him entirely. How does magnetic frequencies cure people of a wide range of ailments? There is no active ingredient.
Why do you believe him and not the hundreds or thousands of other researchers who say it doesn't and cannot work?
SB
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Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:57 - Sep 6 with 1069 views
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:50 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
In my case, this homeopathic remedy DOES exceed the mathematic threshold of chance and probability. My symptoms ease directly after using it. People just saying, "No, it doesn't work, science says so," doesn't explain what I'm experiencing.
I'm sure if this happened for you, Stokers and others, you'd also be in my baffled position.
this homeopathic remedy DOES exceed the mathematic threshold of chance and probability.
ahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaahahahaha
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
My Glynis used to suffer terribly from headaches in the evening, especially if I felt slightly amorous. We tried all sorts... magnets, dream-catchers, erotic literature- none of it worked.
We then visited our GP who recommended a marriage counsellor. We've been happily sleeping in single beds ever since.
Always trust the experts.
Former leader of the Labour Party / Newsround Editor
1
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:00 - Sep 6 with 1055 views
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:56 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
I'm not refusing to look at the scientific aspect, I've answered it. I agree science says it doesn't work.
Points 1 and 2 are correct. I've never remotely said 3, you just made that up. Not sure why.
You accused me of reverting to magic... I've explained why I haven't. As I said, you appear to be putting lots of words in my mouth.
Not only does science say it shouldnt work... It has also tested effects and confirmed it. Anecdotes of good placebo or indeed chance have no impact on that.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:55 - Sep 6 by wkj
I get the feeling your responding to a flat percentage and not referring to an appropriate statistical analysis approach. Percentages mean nothing to me without context. Besides, I'm not berating your experience, but questioning what almost comes across as you being insulted that you've had a good placebo experience
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 15:56]
I'm not insulted, I'm just baffled as to why it works and I find it odd that people are telling me it doesn't because science says so.
I just think people's answers aren't very satisfactory. I'm happy to hear one that is.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:56 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
I'm not refusing to look at the scientific aspect, I've answered it. I agree science says it doesn't work.
Points 1 and 2 are correct. I've never remotely said 3, you just made that up. Not sure why.
You accused me of reverting to magic... I've explained why I haven't. As I said, you appear to be putting lots of words in my mouth.
I didn't make it up - I honestly wasn't sure which was why I asked for clarification.
So points 1 and 2.
1) You believe the homeopathic remedy worked 2) You don't think it should or worked as you didn't expect it to
Both of these are covered by placebo. The first one is the exact definition of placebo and the second one is covered by the article I previously posted. Here it is again in case you missed it:
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:56 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue
There are countless articles in respected publications which disagree with him entirely. How does magnetic frequencies cure people of a wide range of ailments? There is no active ingredient.
Why do you believe him and not the hundreds or thousands of other researchers who say it doesn't and cannot work?
SB
All I said was that it worked for me 66% of the time when I had fully expected it not to work for me at all at all because I was a complete sceptic.
For a scientist, you don't half seem to be a bit poor at reading everything that's there in black and white. I'm nt having a go at you as you're usually a very good poster who I have a lot of respect for, but you do seem to have a bit of a blind spot with this one.
I'm sure there are many people who disagree with Prof Smith, as there were with Marie Curie, Galileo, etc etc through the centuries.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:56 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue
There are countless articles in respected publications which disagree with him entirely. How does magnetic frequencies cure people of a wide range of ailments? There is no active ingredient.
Why do you believe him and not the hundreds or thousands of other researchers who say it doesn't and cannot work?
SB
She probably believes him because her dog is better.
We'd be better off trying to understand why rather than just looking the other way.
Also, there are plenty of scientists in history who proposed 'out there' stuff (for the time), who were ridiculed by the scientific community, and then found to be right years later.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:03 - Sep 6 by Ryorry
All I said was that it worked for me 66% of the time when I had fully expected it not to work for me at all at all because I was a complete sceptic.
For a scientist, you don't half seem to be a bit poor at reading everything that's there in black and white. I'm nt having a go at you as you're usually a very good poster who I have a lot of respect for, but you do seem to have a bit of a blind spot with this one.
I'm sure there are many people who disagree with Prof Smith, as there were with Marie Curie, Galileo, etc etc through the centuries.
Oh lord that last sentence is going to make poor old Stokie go mental!
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:03 - Sep 6 by Ryorry
All I said was that it worked for me 66% of the time when I had fully expected it not to work for me at all at all because I was a complete sceptic.
For a scientist, you don't half seem to be a bit poor at reading everything that's there in black and white. I'm nt having a go at you as you're usually a very good poster who I have a lot of respect for, but you do seem to have a bit of a blind spot with this one.
I'm sure there are many people who disagree with Prof Smith, as there were with Marie Curie, Galileo, etc etc through the centuries.
I've covered everything in that post already.
I've even posted a link in response to you showing how the placebo effect can work even if you don't expect it to - did you read the Harvard Medical School study?
Let's not equate Dr Smith and scientific giants please, not at least until he's done something to deserve it.
SB
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 16:07]
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Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:06 - Sep 6 with 1020 views
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:56 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue
There are countless articles in respected publications which disagree with him entirely. How does magnetic frequencies cure people of a wide range of ailments? There is no active ingredient.
Why do you believe him and not the hundreds or thousands of other researchers who say it doesn't and cannot work?
SB
Prof Cyril Smith is attempting to use complex systems research (he references some of the great theoretical physicists of our time) as a way of saying that some emergent behaviour exists from the use of homeopathy - there is no science just belief. One paper looks at the frequencies of chakras.
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