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The placebo effect is pretty powerful, so if people are willing to bypass sense and reason to get that, I am going to go out on a limb and say no harm done.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:55 - Sep 6 by sparks
Show us the study in which homeopathy, in double blind tests, does better than placebo.
There are none. Such tests demonstrate quite clearly that there is no demonstrable effect beyond placebo.
Its that simple.
You seem to be missing the point. Maybe the regular scientific testing method is the wrong approach because it doesn't work like that... or we don't have the right equipment/methods yet to test it.
Like how a caveman wouldn't be able to test electricity, or magnetism, or germs. Doesn't mean these things don't exist.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:04 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
She probably believes him because her dog is better.
We'd be better off trying to understand why rather than just looking the other way.
Also, there are plenty of scientists in history who proposed 'out there' stuff (for the time), who were ridiculed by the scientific community, and then found to be right years later.
Why is this case different?
Good grief.
If there was a demonstrable effect which science couldnt explain people would readily say so and agree something is happening we dont yet understand.
No effect is demonstrated. When this is tested in controlled groups the variations in effect are within normal variations under placebo.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:08 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
You seem to be missing the point. Maybe the regular scientific testing method is the wrong approach because it doesn't work like that... or we don't have the right equipment/methods yet to test it.
Like how a caveman wouldn't be able to test electricity, or magnetism, or germs. Doesn't mean these things don't exist.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Personally, I don't think bringing it in as a placebo is a sensible option, as 'practitioners' are wont to insist that there's is a genuine form of medicine and use 'soft' areas of medicine like pain control as an 'in' to push their charlatanery in areas where they can do real, genuine harm. There's an argument(and indeed evidence) to say that yes, certain conditions DO benefit from a more holistic, counselling-based approach but the medical equivalent of the brexit bus isn't the way to go.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 23:18]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:08 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
You seem to be missing the point. Maybe the regular scientific testing method is the wrong approach because it doesn't work like that... or we don't have the right equipment/methods yet to test it.
Like how a caveman wouldn't be able to test electricity, or magnetism, or germs. Doesn't mean these things don't exist.
You can see lightning exists even if you dont understand it. There us no basis to conclude an effect exists from homeopathy.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:06 - Sep 6 by CoachRob
Prof Cyril Smith is attempting to use complex systems research (he references some of the great theoretical physicists of our time) as a way of saying that some emergent behaviour exists from the use of homeopathy - there is no science just belief. One paper looks at the frequencies of chakras.
Appears to be in Deepak Chopra territory.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:12 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
You've been wrong so often on here I'm surprised you still show your face. Feel free to contribute something meaningful if you have it though.
Why on Earth would I contribute something "meaningful" to a thread where you already demonstrated you literally dont understand anything anyone has said to you so far?
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 16:14]
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:15 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
Why is it only placebo when I take this particular remedy?
Is it in Ryorry's dog'd head?
It's perfectly acceptable to answer "I don't know" BTW.
Regarding your second point, perhaps some other, unidentified element that was entirely unrelated to the subject at hand was behind the dog's improvement?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:03 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
So why are they only eased directly after I use this remedy? And this after having tried lots of other remedies.
You seem to have completely glossed over the point about maybe this is something science doesn't understand yet, and science-based evidence might be the wrong way.
A lot of homeopathic 'cures' occur when the curee has tried it a as a last resort. What's actually happening is the effects of actual genuine proven treatments have been slow to kick in and usually coincide with the commencement of the last resort of Blue Passport and No Foreigners therapy.
Ben Goldacre in 'bad science' explains this considerably better than I do, by the way.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:18 - Sep 6 by SpruceMoose
Regarding your second point, perhaps some other, unidentified element that was entirely unrelated to the subject at hand was behind the dog's improvement?
Thanks! Finally an attempt at an answer! And it's a perfectly valid one.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:14 - Sep 6 by chicoazul
Why on Earth would I contribute something "meaningful" to a thread where you already demonstrated you literally dont understand anything anyone has said to you so far?
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:22 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue
Thanks! Finally an attempt at an answer! And it's a perfectly valid one.
Where's my upvote then!?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:05 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue
I've covered everything in that post already.
I've even posted a link in response to you showing how the placebo effect can work even if you don't expect it to - did you read the Harvard Medical School study?
Let's not equate Dr Smith and scientific giants please, not at least until he's done something to deserve it.
SB
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 16:07]
I didn't "equate" them - you did. I simply used them as examples of how people with now proven scientific principles were scorned or derided initially. Thus again you proved your unwillingness to take a scientific approach with your selectivity. Do you mind me asking what your science qualifications are? (permission to brag granted!)
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 16:18 - Sep 6 by BlueBadger
A lot of homeopathic 'cures' occur when the curee has tried it a as a last resort. What's actually happening is the effects of actual genuine proven treatments have been slow to kick in and usually coincide with the commencement of the last resort of Blue Passport and No Foreigners therapy.
Ben Goldacre in 'bad science' explains this considerably better than I do, by the way.
Dangerous mumbo jumbo or powerful placebo? on 15:46 - Sep 6 by Ryorry
"We know the make-up of the homeopathic remedies is the same as water down to molecular level - it's nothing like what you are equating it to."
I specifically told you Prof Smith put it down to nothing to do with water down to molecular level but to magnetic frequencies.
He was a scientist, you (as far as I'm aware) are not. I 'm going with him on this
Strictly speaking, he's entirely correct that it's nothing to do with it being water. That's because it's placebo effect that 'works' rather than anything else.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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