| Oh i love this country 10:42 - Dec 5 with 24991 views | FrimleyBlue |
Rent up another £10 a week
Commuting up another 3.5%
Now, what are the odds of my salary going up.........
Disclaimer........ not saying any other country would be any different, but just laughing with a colleague about it |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 10:45 - Dec 5 with 10645 views | TIB |
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| Oh i love this country on 10:50 - Dec 5 with 10626 views | J2BLUE |
Rent up? I have no sympathy. It's only an issue for those too lazy and unmotivated to move to Burnley. |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:00 - Dec 5 with 10545 views | chicoazul |
The country is a zombie. Nearly everything good about its institutions is gone or going, never to return. |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:24 - Dec 5 with 10485 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 12:00 - Dec 5 by chicoazul |
The country is a zombie. Nearly everything good about its institutions is gone or going, never to return. |
It's amazing now to think that in the couple of decades after the Second World War we were at the forefront of social reform and progressive thinking.
Then in the late 70s/early 80s we started abandoning all that for Reaganomics and the tyranny of "personal liberty". With equality suddenly seen as the sort of dirty, radical word it was in the Victorian era. All of which has seen us go into reverse, and largely overtaken by our Western European neighbours some of whom have nowhere near the human and natural resources we have.
Put simply, liberty and equality are at odds and need to be kept in balance if we want a better and happier society with hope for future generations and security for the sick, old and otherwise needy. And that's what proper governments and politicians do.
Zombie or sleepwalker, you're right that we're just shuffling along, heading nowhere in particular. |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:26 - Dec 5 with 10469 views | GeoffSentence |
How far is your commute? Any alternatives available like embracing the lycra? |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:36 - Dec 5 with 10433 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 12:24 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
It's amazing now to think that in the couple of decades after the Second World War we were at the forefront of social reform and progressive thinking.
Then in the late 70s/early 80s we started abandoning all that for Reaganomics and the tyranny of "personal liberty". With equality suddenly seen as the sort of dirty, radical word it was in the Victorian era. All of which has seen us go into reverse, and largely overtaken by our Western European neighbours some of whom have nowhere near the human and natural resources we have.
Put simply, liberty and equality are at odds and need to be kept in balance if we want a better and happier society with hope for future generations and security for the sick, old and otherwise needy. And that's what proper governments and politicians do.
Zombie or sleepwalker, you're right that we're just shuffling along, heading nowhere in particular. |
'The tyranny of personal liberty'. No need to ask which side of the political spectrum you're on, eh? |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:40 - Dec 5 with 10414 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 12:36 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
'The tyranny of personal liberty'. No need to ask which side of the political spectrum you're on, eh? |
Ditto.
A country where personal liberty becomes the gospel above all others will automatically disadvantage a huge proportion of its own population. I'm not against liberty at all - quite the opposite. Just that there needs to be a proper balance with equality. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:46 - Dec 5 with 10375 views | 26_Paz |
| Oh i love this country on 12:40 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
Ditto.
A country where personal liberty becomes the gospel above all others will automatically disadvantage a huge proportion of its own population. I'm not against liberty at all - quite the opposite. Just that there needs to be a proper balance with equality. |
Since when have liberty and equality been mutually exclusive.? |  |
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| Oh i love this country on 12:48 - Dec 5 with 10371 views | solemio |
| Oh i love this country on 12:36 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
'The tyranny of personal liberty'. No need to ask which side of the political spectrum you're on, eh? |
This is a very useful exemplar of how taking a sentence out of context can totally alter its emphasis. |  | | |
| Oh i love this country on 12:49 - Dec 5 with 10367 views | StirlingArcher |
| Oh i love this country on 12:46 - Dec 5 by 26_Paz |
Since when have liberty and equality been mutually exclusive.? |
when has "snowflake" and "PC" been in force?
that's your timescale |  | | |
| Oh i love this country on 12:52 - Dec 5 with 10353 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 12:40 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
Ditto.
A country where personal liberty becomes the gospel above all others will automatically disadvantage a huge proportion of its own population. I'm not against liberty at all - quite the opposite. Just that there needs to be a proper balance with equality. |
Indeed, you want state control instead of liberty, and will exaggerate any cause of disadvantage to a 'huge proportion' to justify this, showing that you are actually not for liberty as you claim. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:10 - Dec 5 with 10300 views | StirlingArcher |
| Oh i love this country on 12:52 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
Indeed, you want state control instead of liberty, and will exaggerate any cause of disadvantage to a 'huge proportion' to justify this, showing that you are actually not for liberty as you claim. |
This sounds a bit totalitarian. Telling him what he wants...
Irony eh? | | | |
| Oh i love this country on 13:22 - Dec 5 with 10271 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 12:46 - Dec 5 by 26_Paz |
Since when have liberty and equality been mutually exclusive.? |
Pretty much forever. They can and should exist side-by-side, of course.
The neo-liberals talk about "equality of opportunity" but that's just liberty by another name. You need to balance liberty with equality of outcome so you don't leave anyone behind.
And before you jump the gun, I'm also not looking for the "tyranny of equality" either, which is totalitarian communism. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:23 - Dec 5 with 10263 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 12:52 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
Indeed, you want state control instead of liberty, and will exaggerate any cause of disadvantage to a 'huge proportion' to justify this, showing that you are actually not for liberty as you claim. |
See above. You're thinking in binary terms (either or) rather than looking for the right balance. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:24 - Dec 5 with 10258 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 13:10 - Dec 5 by StirlingArcher |
This sounds a bit totalitarian. Telling him what he wants...
Irony eh? |
Hehe. Oyster does like inventing positions to rail against. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:30 - Dec 5 with 10233 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 13:10 - Dec 5 by StirlingArcher |
This sounds a bit totalitarian. Telling him what he wants...
Irony eh? |
Not at all. Recognising the clear desires of somebody in debate is nothing to do with totalitarism. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:33 - Dec 5 with 10218 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 13:23 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
See above. You're thinking in binary terms (either or) rather than looking for the right balance. |
I'm not at all. I'm pointing out why you like to imagine a 'huge proportion' of disadvantage to show that you are mainly *against* liberty instead of favouring it. I'm not saying you're against *all* liberty, which would be the binary option. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:36 - Dec 5 with 10191 views | No9 |
| Oh i love this country on 12:52 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
Indeed, you want state control instead of liberty, and will exaggerate any cause of disadvantage to a 'huge proportion' to justify this, showing that you are actually not for liberty as you claim. |
We never had any 'state control' in the late 60's for from it.
State control came in with Cameron who was telling us where we could & couldn't work/ visit etc. etc. | | | |
| Oh i love this country on 13:44 - Dec 5 with 10179 views | 26_Paz |
| Oh i love this country on 13:22 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
Pretty much forever. They can and should exist side-by-side, of course.
The neo-liberals talk about "equality of opportunity" but that's just liberty by another name. You need to balance liberty with equality of outcome so you don't leave anyone behind.
And before you jump the gun, I'm also not looking for the "tyranny of equality" either, which is totalitarian communism. |
Surely 'equality of outcome' is totalitarian communism?
What we need is 'equality of opportunity' plus a safety net for those who are unable or unwilling to take the opportunities provided, this is the welfare state, which we have. I don't think we're going to far wrong to be honest ... | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:44 - Dec 5 with 10179 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 13:33 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
I'm not at all. I'm pointing out why you like to imagine a 'huge proportion' of disadvantage to show that you are mainly *against* liberty instead of favouring it. I'm not saying you're against *all* liberty, which would be the binary option. |
I'm not against liberty in the slightest. Are you "against" equality or at least think that liberty should come first? | |
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| Oh i love this country on 13:50 - Dec 5 with 10149 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh i love this country on 13:44 - Dec 5 by 26_Paz |
Surely 'equality of outcome' is totalitarian communism?
What we need is 'equality of opportunity' plus a safety net for those who are unable or unwilling to take the opportunities provided, this is the welfare state, which we have. I don't think we're going to far wrong to be honest ... |
If it rides roughshod over liberty, yes. Neither should have the upper hand.
BTW The safety net is pretty rubbish and we don't make the long-term investment in health, education, housing etc. needed for people to avoid it.
That's on top of the disastrous situation for young wage earners in this country who shouldn't need help but are now facing a future where they'll almost certainly be wasting their money (including much of their savings and pensions) on exorbitant rents. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 14:09 - Dec 5 with 10111 views | dickie |
I'm getting a 1% pay rise in April (big whoop), although as it's the first one in 10 years I am stifling a small lob on | | | |
| Oh i love this country on 14:12 - Dec 5 with 10100 views | StirlingArcher |
| Oh i love this country on 13:30 - Dec 5 by blue_oyster |
Not at all. Recognising the clear desires of somebody in debate is nothing to do with totalitarism. |
less recognising and more imposing a viewpoint.
which is to totalitarism as a sister is to a Norwich fan... | | | |
| Oh i love this country on 14:26 - Dec 5 with 10078 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 14:12 - Dec 5 by StirlingArcher |
less recognising and more imposing a viewpoint.
which is to totalitarism as a sister is to a Norwich fan... |
Not imposing anything. It is simply a point being made. If your point of view was always seen to be 'imposing', there would be no such thing as debate. | |
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| Oh i love this country on 14:28 - Dec 5 with 10071 views | blue_oyster |
| Oh i love this country on 13:44 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
I'm not against liberty in the slightest. Are you "against" equality or at least think that liberty should come first? |
Oh really? So why are you ignoring the point about the 'huge proportion' being disadvantaged? | |
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