| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? 09:28 - Jun 23 with 3547 views | unstableblue |
Lots of interesting debate and views expressed on the board yesterday around how tough a test our rivals will be next season and the overall challenge. And therefore how well Town will do. Also discussion of how high is the quality of football played across the Championship in comparison to the pure football McKenna is delivering.
I enjoyed the Blue Monday podcast fixture list review - worth a listen - and one key discussion was that teams are ultimately in layers of difficulty. With teams heavily parachute payment backed towards the top. And the likes of Rotherham with lesser means, or poor recent form (QPR) at the bottom.
A good way to derive these ‘strata’ is from Oddschecker and how they see the chances of promotion across the teams - consolidating multiple betting outlets thoughts… and it goes in order like this (which I’ve grouped into a view of difficulty):
Tough
Leicester
Leeds
Saints
Boro
Norwich
Watford
West Brom
Difficult
Stoke
Sunderland
(Ipswich)
Blackburn
Coventry
Millwall
Swansea
Hull
Beatable
Bristol City
Preston
Sheff Weds
Cardiff City
Huddersfield
Points A-go-go
QPR
Birmingham
Rotherham
Plymouth
Major caveats have to be managers are still being appointed and the transfer merry go round has only just began - for example Brum are predicted to be in the struggling group but they’re already buying quality and have backing.
Also there seem to be major variances to the Town fans view… for example we see Stoke as much easier than Sunderland, and given Plymouth results last season would we say they’re the easiest games we’ll get.
Positively the order given by the bookies doesn’t seem to factor in some of the turmoil around the fancied teams… Norwich feel in a state, Leicester manager greeness and squad flux, Leeds lacking someone at the helm, questionable manager at Saints, West Brom financial woe.
What does the list make you feel about our chances??
For me the ‘difficult’ strata sums up the real challenge ahead and need to further strengthen - I watched a number of games with these teams and they’d didn’t fit the TWTD narrative that Championship teams are playing League Oneesque football… with Sunderland, Coventry, Millwall, Blackburn standing out as a challenge!!
Get some home wins and away draws from that group and a good season will be had.
COYB
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| It makes we feel our finishing potential is 6 to 10… on 09:35 - Jun 23 with 3039 views | unstableblue |
Influenced by how well we start, the quality of our transfer business versus our rivals, and how rabid we can make the PR atmosphere
I really don’t think a mid table 12th would be any disgrace or be a surprise
What’s your finishing position range? | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:44 - Jun 23 with 3013 views | Swansea_Blue |
Don't necessarily agree with all of that. I think there's an element of judging the name with a few of them and not their current level. West Brom were woeful last season, Watford were more often than not, and too Norwich. Coventry would have been in the tough bracket and probably Blackburn. Hull were very beatable and so were Stoke. Cardiff will probably be relegation fodder, they're in a right mess.
The surprise of last year was the rise of quite a few teams who'd been average the season before. It's hard to predict who will do that next year.
Watford and Norwich have the capacity to do a lot better as they've still got a financial advantage through parachute payments, but they need to do a lot better than last year to be a threat.
Leicester will be interesting - they've been in the PL long enough and high enough to have players on big wages, so as you say could well have massive squad changes that will unsettle them. The teams that bounce back tend to be those that don't make too many changes. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:47 - Jun 23 with 2994 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
The league is certainly tougher than a lot of people think. During the playoff final on here there was lots of "If this is the standard we could easily make top 6".
The reason the games are like that is because so many teams are so well matched, the games become gritty. The difference between 4th-12th at times can be absolutely tiny. We wont have many games like we did at the end of last season where we just blow people away.
Right now a top 12 finish, a win over Norwich and further progression would be a very good season. |  |
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| It makes we feel our finishing potential is 6 to 10… on 09:52 - Jun 23 with 2964 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It makes we feel our finishing potential is 6 to 10… on 09:35 - Jun 23 by unstableblue |
Influenced by how well we start, the quality of our transfer business versus our rivals, and how rabid we can make the PR atmosphere
I really don’t think a mid table 12th would be any disgrace or be a surprise
What’s your finishing position range? |
I reckon we're capable of beating anyone on our day, but not consistently. I wouldn't set a league position target, although I'd probably feel a little disappointed with 12th. Sunderland have shown that it is possible to adapt to this league off the back of a good L1 season. If we prepare well, stay on our game, add a little bit of extra quality and avoid lengthy injuries to key players who knows where we'll end up. | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:54 - Jun 23 with 2959 views | blueasfook |
So you think Plymouth (who finished above us as champions last season) will be "Points a go-go" next season?
Hmmm... OK. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:58 - Jun 23 with 2935 views | unstableblue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:44 - Jun 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Don't necessarily agree with all of that. I think there's an element of judging the name with a few of them and not their current level. West Brom were woeful last season, Watford were more often than not, and too Norwich. Coventry would have been in the tough bracket and probably Blackburn. Hull were very beatable and so were Stoke. Cardiff will probably be relegation fodder, they're in a right mess.
The surprise of last year was the rise of quite a few teams who'd been average the season before. It's hard to predict who will do that next year.
Watford and Norwich have the capacity to do a lot better as they've still got a financial advantage through parachute payments, but they need to do a lot better than last year to be a threat.
Leicester will be interesting - they've been in the PL long enough and high enough to have players on big wages, so as you say could well have massive squad changes that will unsettle them. The teams that bounce back tend to be those that don't make too many changes. |
Agree Watford, West Brom and Stoke stood out as lazy, they’re the big names, rankings. But again these are betting odds.
I think Norwich will do daily well, despite ownership and fan base challenges, he’s a good manager and they’ve gone for experience to bolster after the loss of Puki
Can anyone call Watford !?
Leicester could go one of two ways…. Vardy and a set of young upcoming talent and a manager who just clicks (doing it just like Vincent Kompany did) or they fall apart…
They’ll be emerging dark horses who’ll rise up the Strata… Sunderland, and Swansea for example. | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:00 - Jun 23 with 2922 views | unstableblue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 09:54 - Jun 23 by blueasfook |
So you think Plymouth (who finished above us as champions last season) will be "Points a go-go" next season?
Hmmm... OK. |
Please re-read
This is a ranking of league success from all current bookies odds
I actually point out that this is flawed with Plymouth as an example
Points a go go was suggesting that surely the lowest teams are a shoe-in
I don’t agree that Plymouth will be easy
But judging by some of the optimism yesterday, many do | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:02 - Jun 23 with 2919 views | Scuzzer |
From the experience of four seasons in League one I think the standard of football has improved all the way down the pyramid. There is possibly a reason for this in as much as the Premier league has so many top foreign players in it home grown players of good quality play further down the leagues. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:04 - Jun 23 with 2907 views | blueasfook |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:00 - Jun 23 by unstableblue |
Please re-read
This is a ranking of league success from all current bookies odds
I actually point out that this is flawed with Plymouth as an example
Points a go go was suggesting that surely the lowest teams are a shoe-in
I don’t agree that Plymouth will be easy
But judging by some of the optimism yesterday, many do |
Fair enough, I dont know why Plymouth aren't rated by the bookies. They were solid last season and we couldn't catch them. OK, they ground out a lot of 1-0 wins, whereas we handed out a few thumpings. | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:34 - Jun 23 with 2829 views | LankHenners |
Don't think we need to approach the league with any fear but the more people get too confident and start talking about 'don't see many tough games' it worries me we're in for a rude awakening.
You don't get the same level of dross like Accrington, Morecambe, Forest Green etc. where you can be pretty safe predicting a 3-0 or so win every week for a stretch of 6 or 7 games but there are quite a few teams that aren't all that and probably not much better than top 6 League One standard which we know we can deal with.
Hard also to say where to predict us finishing all said and done as the points gap between fringes of the playoffs and lower mid table can be quite small. We can say 'top 10', finish there but be 2 or 3 points off 16th, say. For me (unless we reach the playoffs, which, despite the strength of additions we'll make and the way we'll go about playing, would still be an upset imo), an 'achievement' for the season should be measured by something less concrete than league position or even points total. Essentially, we want to look at the team and go, 'yeah, we're back'. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:42 - Jun 23 with 2784 views | Naylorsrightboot |
Stoke could be good this season. They had a very good end to the campaign. If they get off to a great start they are going to be a force.
As for Town, l think mid table will be a good season. We aren't going to win consistently like we did last season. People need to learn that. |  | | |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:50 - Jun 23 with 2752 views | Guthrum |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:04 - Jun 23 by blueasfook |
Fair enough, I dont know why Plymouth aren't rated by the bookies. They were solid last season and we couldn't catch them. OK, they ground out a lot of 1-0 wins, whereas we handed out a few thumpings. |
The other thing is that Plymouth have lost a fair few of their players from last season, either loans going back or released. We have at least pretty much kept the core of our squad together. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:53 - Jun 23 with 2716 views | the_toff |
They're all beatable. |  | | |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:58 - Jun 23 with 2686 views | GeoffSentence |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:00 - Jun 23 by unstableblue |
Please re-read
This is a ranking of league success from all current bookies odds
I actually point out that this is flawed with Plymouth as an example
Points a go go was suggesting that surely the lowest teams are a shoe-in
I don’t agree that Plymouth will be easy
But judging by some of the optimism yesterday, many do |
Plymouth away is the point at which we wll reach the 100 points mark. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 11:24 - Jun 23 with 2581 views | BlueBadger |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:02 - Jun 23 by Scuzzer |
From the experience of four seasons in League one I think the standard of football has improved all the way down the pyramid. There is possibly a reason for this in as much as the Premier league has so many top foreign players in it home grown players of good quality play further down the leagues. |
Good ol' 15th would be a decent first season back, I reckon. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 11:28 - Jun 23 with 2564 views | portmanroadblue |
I think anyone can beat anyone in this league, for us to be consistent we will need to change our approach for certain games. We definitely need to strengthen and hope we get off to a flyer.
Our results changed when we brought in Luongo , Hirst and Broadhead, but when one of those was not playing, we struggled, so we do need some more strength in depth. |  | | |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 11:55 - Jun 23 with 2470 views | PioneerBlue |
I’m in the 6th - 16th range and on what we know today the feeling is we are more 16th -10th. Transfer business would have potential to up the range but we should underestimate what a good first season back anything above 10th would be. Fact we will shoot for the playoffs with or without any signings is obvious, but even with new players we could easily take a season of adjustment and another window to really bring the squad together.
It would be great if we are really ready to compete at the top but realistically supporters need to find a way to manage expectations and keep PR as a place to enjoy watching itfc however the season goes. | |
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| “Strength in depth” hallelujah on 12:11 - Jun 23 with 2411 views | unstableblue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 11:28 - Jun 23 by portmanroadblue |
I think anyone can beat anyone in this league, for us to be consistent we will need to change our approach for certain games. We definitely need to strengthen and hope we get off to a flyer.
Our results changed when we brought in Luongo , Hirst and Broadhead, but when one of those was not playing, we struggled, so we do need some more strength in depth. |
Looking at some of those dense months of football against tough teams… I do feel we’re going to have to fill the allowable squad side will some real quality
2 strikers
Right wing
Centre mid
Centre back
At the very least | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 12:14 - Jun 23 with 2393 views | unstableblue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:34 - Jun 23 by LankHenners |
Don't think we need to approach the league with any fear but the more people get too confident and start talking about 'don't see many tough games' it worries me we're in for a rude awakening.
You don't get the same level of dross like Accrington, Morecambe, Forest Green etc. where you can be pretty safe predicting a 3-0 or so win every week for a stretch of 6 or 7 games but there are quite a few teams that aren't all that and probably not much better than top 6 League One standard which we know we can deal with.
Hard also to say where to predict us finishing all said and done as the points gap between fringes of the playoffs and lower mid table can be quite small. We can say 'top 10', finish there but be 2 or 3 points off 16th, say. For me (unless we reach the playoffs, which, despite the strength of additions we'll make and the way we'll go about playing, would still be an upset imo), an 'achievement' for the season should be measured by something less concrete than league position or even points total. Essentially, we want to look at the team and go, 'yeah, we're back'. |
I was quite surprised by the number of 'don't see many tough games' reaction to the fixture release yesterday….
To be fair I think people had seen some mediocre Championship games from higher teams.. but I saw good quality displays, and for example Blackburn last season would have given us a tough test based on the performances I saw | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 12:15 - Jun 23 with 2391 views | unstableblue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 10:58 - Jun 23 by GeoffSentence |
Plymouth away is the point at which we wll reach the 100 points mark. |
Love it | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 15:05 - Jun 23 with 2220 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
The thing is, some teams have started to make progress with transfers whilst some are yet to get started. It's too early to predict because on paper Leicester have a ridiculous squad for the league, however, the likelihood is that those names that stand out won't be with Leicester beyond the transfer window closing.
A lot of movement to come and I'm sure we will be right in the thick of it soon ourselves. One thing we can say is financially, we are in a stronger position than most teams in this league. Some are restricted with what they can do. I think there's a few teams to keep an eye on who are struggling financially and who also struggled last season - Cardiff for example, I think they're in big trouble.
If we can start well then who knows where momentum can carry us off the back of last season, the Championship will be a tight league and I imagine we'll be in the middle of the pack for most of it whilst we adapt and settle in. |  |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 19:41 - Jun 23 with 2034 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
To caveat my thoughts, last year in the close season I was one who said 100 points and 100 goals is realistic.
What do I think of this season in the championship? Well, the Ipswich that finished 22/23 is a completely different beast from the team that started the season. And in 21/22 under McKenna, I felt we were as good as Sunderland - and look what Sunderland did in their 1st season in the Championship. The Ipswich that we had at the end of 22/23 was not only the best team in League 1, it was (according to managers like Michael Duff) probably the best team League 1 had ever seen. And that will not be the team we are taking into the Championship, we have to believe that there will be further strengthening. So when you put all of that together, the minimum we should be aiming for is Playoffs. It depends on recruitment, and I accept that we hit the jackpot in January and it may not always be as successful as that. But we have, in my view, the best manager bar none in the Championship. The coaching, personal development and the resultant togetherness is exceptional. I think Playoffs is very achievable, and wouldn't rule out any position in the top 6. [Post edited 23 Jun 2023 19:43]
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 20:22 - Jun 23 with 1972 views | BigCommon |
As much as some people think we fluked our recruitment in January, with all four signings coming good. I just look at it as us, getting it done properly. Identifying the right players, and getting those deals done. No fluke at all.
Hopefully see the same this window. Quality not quantity. To strengthen an already, tight group of players.
I'm not bothered about what other teams are doing in the window. If a team signs 8 or 9 players, they'll be lucky to get 3 or 4 of them right.
Don't see why we can't punch around the upper mid table region. Giving us a realistic play off shout , should we finish strongly...
Last season's run in , last 15 odd games looked very daunting. With some Championship standard teams away from home. I underplayed our chances of autos. And we absolutely blew everyone away. So let's not underestimate what this current set up is capable of. Especially after strengthening 3, 4 or even 5 new players.
I'm sure if we are even in with a sniff of the play offs around January. The will be some further investment in the squad. Such is the prize. |  | | |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 06:44 - Jun 24 with 1810 views | PioneerBlue |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 20:22 - Jun 23 by BigCommon |
As much as some people think we fluked our recruitment in January, with all four signings coming good. I just look at it as us, getting it done properly. Identifying the right players, and getting those deals done. No fluke at all.
Hopefully see the same this window. Quality not quantity. To strengthen an already, tight group of players.
I'm not bothered about what other teams are doing in the window. If a team signs 8 or 9 players, they'll be lucky to get 3 or 4 of them right.
Don't see why we can't punch around the upper mid table region. Giving us a realistic play off shout , should we finish strongly...
Last season's run in , last 15 odd games looked very daunting. With some Championship standard teams away from home. I underplayed our chances of autos. And we absolutely blew everyone away. So let's not underestimate what this current set up is capable of. Especially after strengthening 3, 4 or even 5 new players.
I'm sure if we are even in with a sniff of the play offs around January. The will be some further investment in the squad. Such is the prize. |
It’s certainly no fluke that 4 players were identified; give a month to get up to speed having not played loads then contributed significantly at that level.
Everything is different now, we need the momentum to make up for the lack of seasoned experience as a team at the new level. We need players we expect to perform to perform. We need players with higher ceilings to find their feet quickly and pull others up. We need KMcK to quickly get to grips with the differences that we find at the next level.
We need fans to back the club, it will be different, we are unlikely to control 99% of games and win most. Fans to play their part. See 2022/23 if you need a reference point!
What’s different the higher you go? Here is a point of view, other might add to this:-
Typically -
-better athletes
-higher technical capabilities
-finishing is more clinical
-opposition is better coached
-opposition is more capable of executing games plans
What is pleasing is the top two, we have been specialising in these for 18 months. What is good about the bottom two is we have a coaching staff capable of learning quickly and adapting to the games which might require a period of adjustment but we will get there.
Which leaves finishing
We need to add to that capability to be a threat at the next level and we need to be increasingly alert to teams being more likely to take more of the chances we afford them - I guess this is why we have spoke about Cdf and Cmf being core positions to strengthen. | |
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| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 08:18 - Jun 24 with 1741 views | ArnieM |
| The Championship strata! - how hard is this league and how good is the football? on 06:44 - Jun 24 by PioneerBlue |
It’s certainly no fluke that 4 players were identified; give a month to get up to speed having not played loads then contributed significantly at that level.
Everything is different now, we need the momentum to make up for the lack of seasoned experience as a team at the new level. We need players we expect to perform to perform. We need players with higher ceilings to find their feet quickly and pull others up. We need KMcK to quickly get to grips with the differences that we find at the next level.
We need fans to back the club, it will be different, we are unlikely to control 99% of games and win most. Fans to play their part. See 2022/23 if you need a reference point!
What’s different the higher you go? Here is a point of view, other might add to this:-
Typically -
-better athletes
-higher technical capabilities
-finishing is more clinical
-opposition is better coached
-opposition is more capable of executing games plans
What is pleasing is the top two, we have been specialising in these for 18 months. What is good about the bottom two is we have a coaching staff capable of learning quickly and adapting to the games which might require a period of adjustment but we will get there.
Which leaves finishing
We need to add to that capability to be a threat at the next level and we need to be increasingly alert to teams being more likely to take more of the chances we afford them - I guess this is why we have spoke about Cdf and Cmf being core positions to strengthen. |
We need better central defenders …. |  |
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