| Tories going all out for No Deal then 08:57 - Oct 8 with 9883 views | itfcjoe |
Allegedly from Dominic Cummings, bloke is a jumped up pr!ck and I'd love to see this all blow up in his face.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/how-number-10-view-the-state-of-the-negoti
‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments – he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.
There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.
Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.
If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.
So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.
We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation – cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.
We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless. They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.
‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay – Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts – we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.
Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’ |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:00 - Oct 8 with 3367 views | homer_123 |
Mays Deal is looking better each day..... |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:03 - Oct 8 with 3358 views | wkj |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:00 - Oct 8 by homer_123 |
Mays Deal is looking better each day..... |
May's Deal never looked bad in my opinion, just that one sticking point |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:04 - Oct 8 with 3350 views | Darth_Koont |
I don't have access to the Spectator so don't know how this was received but isn't that a hugely worrying official statement?
It's basically a brazen refusal to deal with the law not to mention reality. |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:07 - Oct 8 with 3314 views | Guthrum |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:03 - Oct 8 by wkj |
May's Deal never looked bad in my opinion, just that one sticking point |
Even that being more of a bogey-man than a reality. It was only ever a contingency if nothing was agreed on trade and customs in NI within the two (or so) years of the Transition. It could be terminated at any time after that by an agreement.
If the NI border issue actually proves unsolveable even in the long run, it might be a good thing. |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:09 - Oct 8 with 3303 views | itfcjoe |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:04 - Oct 8 by Darth_Koont |
I don't have access to the Spectator so don't know how this was received but isn't that a hugely worrying official statement?
It's basically a brazen refusal to deal with the law not to mention reality. |
It's a message been sent out to the jounralist (James Forsyth) from a 'source inside No. 10', and it seems to have been agreed it is from Cummings. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:10 - Oct 8 with 3298 views | wkj |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:07 - Oct 8 by Guthrum |
Even that being more of a bogey-man than a reality. It was only ever a contingency if nothing was agreed on trade and customs in NI within the two (or so) years of the Transition. It could be terminated at any time after that by an agreement.
If the NI border issue actually proves unsolveable even in the long run, it might be a good thing. |
Indeed, time will tell but where we are now is disappointing as it feels many people are invested in remain or leave for no other reason than just picking a side. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:14 - Oct 8 with 3284 views | Guthrum |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:04 - Oct 8 by Darth_Koont |
I don't have access to the Spectator so don't know how this was received but isn't that a hugely worrying official statement?
It's basically a brazen refusal to deal with the law not to mention reality. |
Their "reality" is that an ultra-hard-line Brexit stance will win them a General Election if they can't get a deal through on terms which will satisfy their backers. They are very scared of the Faragists, so are going primarily after their supporters, relying on habitual Conservative voters to continue doing so and get them a majority.
In this they are helped by all those people who "just want to get Brexit done" and stop having to think about difficult and boring stuff like politics. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:17 - Oct 8 with 3265 views | Churchman |
What a dreadful man this bloke is. It’s all a game for the multi millionaires. They have to go.
I still think Mays deal is appalling. Most of it is obvious routine stuff, but elements are unacceptable. If it was my choice I’d revoke Article 50 on the basis that all options have been looked at and don’t work - and dropping the economy off a cliff is plain mad. Alternatively put the options to a second referendum. There should never have been one in the first place but I think it’s the only way out |  | | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:19 - Oct 8 with 3254 views | Guthrum |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:10 - Oct 8 by wkj |
Indeed, time will tell but where we are now is disappointing as it feels many people are invested in remain or leave for no other reason than just picking a side. |
Articles of faith. Both sides carry a promise of salvation no longer necessarily connected with reality. Life will become wonderful if Brexit is accomplished/avoided, we just have to have sufficient positivity and keep pushing. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:20 - Oct 8 with 3249 views | wkj |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:17 - Oct 8 by Churchman |
What a dreadful man this bloke is. It’s all a game for the multi millionaires. They have to go.
I still think Mays deal is appalling. Most of it is obvious routine stuff, but elements are unacceptable. If it was my choice I’d revoke Article 50 on the basis that all options have been looked at and don’t work - and dropping the economy off a cliff is plain mad. Alternatively put the options to a second referendum. There should never have been one in the first place but I think it’s the only way out |
Revoking article 50 seems logical on those grounds, but so many people are devoutly invested to their idea of a Utopian world post withdrawal it would be near impossible to do without a shed load of civil issues following. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:23 - Oct 8 with 3237 views | Darth_Koont |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:14 - Oct 8 by Guthrum |
Their "reality" is that an ultra-hard-line Brexit stance will win them a General Election if they can't get a deal through on terms which will satisfy their backers. They are very scared of the Faragists, so are going primarily after their supporters, relying on habitual Conservative voters to continue doing so and get them a majority.
In this they are helped by all those people who "just want to get Brexit done" and stop having to think about difficult and boring stuff like politics. |
Of course, it's predominantly electioneering. But this is the mess we get into with this type of vote-chasing party politics and politicians: We're a large Western "democracy" and we're governed by unprincipled scum. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:29 - Oct 8 with 3197 views | No9 |
No one should be surprised at this, it has always been the intention to leave with no deal (Cameron admitted this) but it has to be done in a way to make it look like others forcing it.
The cost to the taxpayer is very high, the IFS stated this morning it is likely to be £100 Bn, looking at the big picrure it is easy to see this may well be a bottom line rather than a possible. |  | | |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:31 - Oct 8 with 3188 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:23 - Oct 8 by Darth_Koont |
Of course, it's predominantly electioneering. But this is the mess we get into with this type of vote-chasing party politics and politicians: We're a large Western "democracy" and we're governed by unprincipled scum. |
The whole thing has only ever been about electioneering and power struggles in Conservative-BP (née Kipper) land. Farage is the one they're running scared off and are quite happy to lower their game to his level whatever the damage.
That piece is a rambling outpouring of paranoid nonsense and, as you say, an open admission that they'll look to break the law (again). I do like the bit where we're supposedly going to send countries in the EU to the bottom of the queue in future negotiations with the EU. That hasn't been quite thought out!
They've never understood the dynamic of the negotiations with the EU, largely because they're not interested in it I expect. All about the internally power struggle and remaining in Westminster as long as possible. |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:44 - Oct 8 with 3138 views | flimflam |
You sound surprised. Its the only end game since BJ took charge, everything else is just noise. [Post edited 8 Oct 2019 9:51]
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| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:46 - Oct 8 with 3133 views | Eireannach_gorm |
'We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation – cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences.'
So the 'plan' after Brexit is to negotiate with individual EU countries. Good luck with that. |  | | |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:49 - Oct 8 with 3124 views | footers |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:46 - Oct 8 by Eireannach_gorm |
'We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation – cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences.'
So the 'plan' after Brexit is to negotiate with individual EU countries. Good luck with that. |
My Westminster insider has shared this leaked copy of Cummings' plan this morning... the EU must be quaking in their boots at this vision of post-Brexit Britain...
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:52 - Oct 8 with 3095 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:46 - Oct 8 by Eireannach_gorm |
'We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation – cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences.'
So the 'plan' after Brexit is to negotiate with individual EU countries. Good luck with that. |
Quite. They know that though - they're just playing to the leave crowd. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:52 - Oct 8 with 3087 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:49 - Oct 8 by footers |
My Westminster insider has shared this leaked copy of Cummings' plan this morning... the EU must be quaking in their boots at this vision of post-Brexit Britain...
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No unicorns? Or cake? | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:54 - Oct 8 with 3081 views | bracknell_blue |
This tw@t seems to be running the country at the moment, pulling Johnson's strings. But he has never stood for office, and nobody has ever voted for him. We are sadly going the way of 1930s Germany. |  |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:57 - Oct 8 with 3054 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:54 - Oct 8 by bracknell_blue |
This tw@t seems to be running the country at the moment, pulling Johnson's strings. But he has never stood for office, and nobody has ever voted for him. We are sadly going the way of 1930s Germany. |
We don't even know this stuff is coming from him. All these anonymous source quotes that are now popping up all over the place shows that whoever it is doesn't even have the courage of his/her own convictions. They must be doing this simply so they can't be held to account down the line. That's not good enough for something that's giving the impression of being an official line - the press need to attribute this stuff to an individual or as an official statement or ignore it. At the moment it's just propaganda. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:57 - Oct 8 with 3052 views | lowhouseblue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:54 - Oct 8 by bracknell_blue |
This tw@t seems to be running the country at the moment, pulling Johnson's strings. But he has never stood for office, and nobody has ever voted for him. We are sadly going the way of 1930s Germany. |
and another brexit thread makes it to nazi germany within the first page. hurrah. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 10:00 - Oct 8 with 3017 views | Darth_Koont |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:54 - Oct 8 by bracknell_blue |
This tw@t seems to be running the country at the moment, pulling Johnson's strings. But he has never stood for office, and nobody has ever voted for him. We are sadly going the way of 1930s Germany. |
This lot are far too incompetent for that.
We'll be Italy under Mussolini at best but probably more like Vichy France with the US pulling our strings to make us dance. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 10:06 - Oct 8 with 2988 views | wkj |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:57 - Oct 8 by lowhouseblue |
and another brexit thread makes it to nazi germany within the first page. hurrah. |
Crude assumption. Parallels can be drawn with specific events of the era without a full assertion such as you assume. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 10:06 - Oct 8 with 2985 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:57 - Oct 8 by lowhouseblue |
and another brexit thread makes it to nazi germany within the first page. hurrah. |
Extreme, but it's hard to deny their approach is fascist (of the literal definition rather than symbolic goose stepping Nazis). Invoking the will of the people to facilitate the wishes of the state, crushing dissenters (calling out political opponents as 'traitors'), unwillingness to be held to account and disregard for the rule of law and national institutions (anti-judiciary, 'enemies of the people', etc), pumping out blatant state propaganda that any authoritarian regime would be proud of.
Luckily, our institutions seem to be holding them to account and binding them by law (for now). But the will and the intent form this particular bunch of Tories is there. It's pure fascism (with a small 'f').
But no, I don't think they'll be invading neighbouring states and gassing whole swathes of the population any time soon. | |
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| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 10:07 - Oct 8 with 2979 views | Darth_Koont |
| Tories going all out for No Deal then on 09:57 - Oct 8 by lowhouseblue |
and another brexit thread makes it to nazi germany within the first page. hurrah. |
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. While shilling for the Brexit Party. | |
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