| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it 10:44 - Sep 4 with 14793 views | Archer4721 |
David Davis seems totally out of his depth. May hasn't a clue about anything, whilst Michel Barnier keeps up the pressure saying "extremely serious consequences of leaving single market have not been explained to British people"
“We intend to teach people … what leaving the single market means.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/03/michel-barnier-brexit-education
[Post edited 4 Sep 2017 10:47]
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:55 - Sep 4 with 8195 views | MattinLondon |
Who would have thought that leaving the EU would be a mess. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:57 - Sep 4 with 8190 views | J2BLUE |
But the EU are wonderful and everything good in this country is down to them. Surely they wouldn't punish us purely out of spite and as a warning to other members? /sarcasm |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:57 - Sep 4 with 8188 views | soupytwist |
It's a bit late for Barnier (or anyone else) to be worried about whether the UK population understands the "extremely serious consequences of leaving single market".
We had a vote over a year ago and we've decided to leave. Whatever those consequences might be, we're gonna have to take 'em on the chin and do our best.
Him stating all this makes him appear desperate for us to be scared into changing our mind, which in turn could lead to the conclusion that the EU are more worried about us leaving than they've let on thus far.
I can fully understand that we're going to be taught what leaving the Single Market involves, 'pour encourager les autres' if nothing else.
And I say all of this as someone who campaigned, and voted, for us to remain in the EU.
Davis is largely out of his depth, but Barnier's not exactly covering himself in glory either. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:58 - Sep 4 with 8184 views | BergholtBru |
More remoaner scaremongering. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:58 - Sep 4 with 8180 views | Freddies_Ears |
Didn't think there are further negotiations now until the end of the month? Isn't it 1 week in every 4?
Tory focus now is on getting through their conference, where we can expect more antagonism towards the EU, jingoism and idiocy. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 with 8171 views | hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:04 - Sep 4 with 8128 views | Archer4721 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:58 - Sep 4 by Freddies_Ears |
Didn't think there are further negotiations now until the end of the month? Isn't it 1 week in every 4?
Tory focus now is on getting through their conference, where we can expect more antagonism towards the EU, jingoism and idiocy. |
May has to get it through parliament this week. She won't get it through by threatening her own backbenchers in her party.....She's a lame duck and will be gone in a month. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:07 - Sep 4 with 8113 views | soupytwist |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |
Well, we will be just like those other countries. Some of them have negotiated more favourable access terms than others (like Norway) and that comes at a cost, both financial and in terms of letting EU institutions have some say in how that access works.
We'll be able to do exactly that but the EU wants to separate the deal for us leaving from the process of negotiating access to the Single Market as a so-called 'third' countries (which is what we'll be once we've left) and not starting the latter until the former is complete. | | | |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:08 - Sep 4 with 8105 views | Archer4721 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |
We can. But the Right Wing Tories don't want a "soft" brexit. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:12 - Sep 4 with 8088 views | LeoMuff |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |
Don't they have to allow freedom of movement though to get this access, which is the the leaver big bugbear. If your talking of a Norway type scenario. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:16 - Sep 4 with 8069 views | hype313 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:12 - Sep 4 by LeoMuff |
Don't they have to allow freedom of movement though to get this access, which is the the leaver big bugbear. If your talking of a Norway type scenario. |
Freedom of movement? from Japan? | |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:23 - Sep 4 with 8025 views | soupytwist |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:12 - Sep 4 by LeoMuff |
Don't they have to allow freedom of movement though to get this access, which is the the leaver big bugbear. If your talking of a Norway type scenario. |
Freedom of movement is one of the things that can be part of the normal negotiated give and take of a trade deal. Accepting that the European Court of Justice would be the authority in disputes under the deal would be another. If we were to accept those two things, our access might be more favourable than other countries which don't. If we were to decide we can't accept them our access might be less favourable, and somehow us and the EU would need to come up with another way to resolve disputes. And that would add time to the negotiations.
It's all up for discussion, but the main thing is that outside the EU our access to the Single Market won't look the same as it did inside the EU. But it's OK we voted to leave knowing that.
Not sure where Japan comes in though. [Post edited 4 Sep 2017 11:24]
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:24 - Sep 4 with 8012 views | MattinLondon |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 10:57 - Sep 4 by soupytwist |
It's a bit late for Barnier (or anyone else) to be worried about whether the UK population understands the "extremely serious consequences of leaving single market".
We had a vote over a year ago and we've decided to leave. Whatever those consequences might be, we're gonna have to take 'em on the chin and do our best.
Him stating all this makes him appear desperate for us to be scared into changing our mind, which in turn could lead to the conclusion that the EU are more worried about us leaving than they've let on thus far.
I can fully understand that we're going to be taught what leaving the Single Market involves, 'pour encourager les autres' if nothing else.
And I say all of this as someone who campaigned, and voted, for us to remain in the EU.
Davis is largely out of his depth, but Barnier's not exactly covering himself in glory either. |
I don't think the EU actually cares whether the UK stays or goes now all it wants is for the country to settle up its bill. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:28 - Sep 4 with 8000 views | Pinewoodblue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:08 - Sep 4 by Archer4721 |
We can. But the Right Wing Tories don't want a "soft" brexit. |
I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU.
The EU has a history of bullying nations who don't tow the line. Remember when Ireland voted not to ratify a revised treaty. The EU bullied the Irish government into holding a second referendum.
A decision has been made, we have to support it. Once the German election is out of the way the EU will enter into proper negotiations. There is no legal basis for an exit bill from EU to UK. If we are obliged to fund capital expenditure in the pipeline then surely we need to be compensated for our share of the assets our contribution over the years have funded.
Get behind your country. A divorce involves the sharing of assets as well as accepting your share of any liability. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:06 - Sep 4 with 7920 views | MattinLondon |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:28 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU.
The EU has a history of bullying nations who don't tow the line. Remember when Ireland voted not to ratify a revised treaty. The EU bullied the Irish government into holding a second referendum.
A decision has been made, we have to support it. Once the German election is out of the way the EU will enter into proper negotiations. There is no legal basis for an exit bill from EU to UK. If we are obliged to fund capital expenditure in the pipeline then surely we need to be compensated for our share of the assets our contribution over the years have funded.
Get behind your country. A divorce involves the sharing of assets as well as accepting your share of any liability. |
And Britain doesn't have a history of bullying other countries.
On a serious note, the ring-wing of the Tory party doesn't seem to care that 48% of the country voted to stay - and that's down to them. But if they insist on a hard Brexit and it all goes wrong then they will probably see a surge forward rejoining the EU and this might mean accepting the euro.
The whole leave campaign may well see Britain become much more of an European nation. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:17 - Sep 4 with 7889 views | Pinewoodblue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:06 - Sep 4 by MattinLondon |
And Britain doesn't have a history of bullying other countries.
On a serious note, the ring-wing of the Tory party doesn't seem to care that 48% of the country voted to stay - and that's down to them. But if they insist on a hard Brexit and it all goes wrong then they will probably see a surge forward rejoining the EU and this might mean accepting the euro.
The whole leave campaign may well see Britain become much more of an European nation. |
You have unearthed the EU plan. Explains why they didn't give Cameron anything in those futile negotiations pre referendum | |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:19 - Sep 4 with 7881 views | m14_blue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:28 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU.
The EU has a history of bullying nations who don't tow the line. Remember when Ireland voted not to ratify a revised treaty. The EU bullied the Irish government into holding a second referendum.
A decision has been made, we have to support it. Once the German election is out of the way the EU will enter into proper negotiations. There is no legal basis for an exit bill from EU to UK. If we are obliged to fund capital expenditure in the pipeline then surely we need to be compensated for our share of the assets our contribution over the years have funded.
Get behind your country. A divorce involves the sharing of assets as well as accepting your share of any liability. |
Surely their negotiators are just trying to get the best deal for the people they represent, just as ours are?
Somehow ours are portrayed as heroes going in to bat for the British taxpayer and theirs are evil malcontents fixated on revenge. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:23 - Sep 4 with 7865 views | Steve_M |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |
There are trade deals fixing or eliminating tariffs, usually on a bespoke sectoral basis which, depending on the sector concerned, can be relatively easy or very hard to negotiate and then there is a single market with regulatory equivalence, free movement of goods and no customs formalities within it.
They remain two different things, although arguably a trade deal is a - limited - subset of the single market. It's the non-tariff barriers - the need to either replicate EU regulation for access or customs checks for and complex rules of origin criteria - that worries a lot of businesses. Any company dealing in frequent cross-border trade as part of an integrated supply chain will be adversely affected if they lose the current access. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:27 - Sep 4 with 7842 views | baxterbasics |
Difficult constitutional & treaty change is difficult shocker. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:34 - Sep 4 with 7818 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:07 - Sep 4 by soupytwist |
Well, we will be just like those other countries. Some of them have negotiated more favourable access terms than others (like Norway) and that comes at a cost, both financial and in terms of letting EU institutions have some say in how that access works.
We'll be able to do exactly that but the EU wants to separate the deal for us leaving from the process of negotiating access to the Single Market as a so-called 'third' countries (which is what we'll be once we've left) and not starting the latter until the former is complete. |
Let's be honest, Barnier and Jean-Claude Juncker are personally going to make a fortune out of this. If we pay, say, 20 billion in reparations you can bet they will squirrel a % of that away for themselves |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:56 - Sep 4 with 7747 views | factual_blue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 12:23 - Sep 4 by Steve_M |
There are trade deals fixing or eliminating tariffs, usually on a bespoke sectoral basis which, depending on the sector concerned, can be relatively easy or very hard to negotiate and then there is a single market with regulatory equivalence, free movement of goods and no customs formalities within it.
They remain two different things, although arguably a trade deal is a - limited - subset of the single market. It's the non-tariff barriers - the need to either replicate EU regulation for access or customs checks for and complex rules of origin criteria - that worries a lot of businesses. Any company dealing in frequent cross-border trade as part of an integrated supply chain will be adversely affected if they lose the current access. |
Don't worry. Beta House dave has said there'll be an imaginative IT solution to issue of customs checks etc.
What could possibly go wrong? [Post edited 4 Sep 2017 12:57]
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 13:14 - Sep 4 with 7702 views | WD19 |
Do you think this how Jeremy Corbyn dreamed it when he quietly ensured a vote for Brexit last year!? |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 13:24 - Sep 4 with 7695 views | BOjK |
Irrespective of whether you support Brexit or not, you'd have to accept that triggering article 50 before we had done any work on our position papers only to then call a general election was a dreadful decision.
We haven't got long to get all this sorted out and it has taken ~25% of that just to work out what it is we actually want.
Remember all that stuff about not revealing our negotiating positions? It was bxllxcks then and is bxllxcks now. We have revealed out negotiating positions and all this proves is that our government hadn't got the first idea of what it was they were going to ask for. They've progressed somewhat in some areas (ACJ, single market) but still haven't got a good answer for the Custom Union or the Irish border problem. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 13:27 - Sep 4 with 7682 views | chicoazul |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:12 - Sep 4 by LeoMuff |
Don't they have to allow freedom of movement though to get this access, which is the the leaver big bugbear. If your talking of a Norway type scenario. |
Leavers are going to be so funny to watch when they realise that not having a border with Ireland means freedom of movement will still happen anyway, and when they realise they will have basically swapped freedom of movement by Poles with freedom of movement by Indians. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 13:57 - Sep 4 with 7630 views | No9 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:00 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
What I don't understand in this whole fiasco is why can other countries outside the EU access it's market, but we can't? |
Over the years other countries have negotiated various types of deals with the EU or they work to WTO reg's whe selling /buying with the EU.
The UK has numerous agreements with other countries via the EU via waht is kknown as Rotterdam passporting.
When the UK leaves there will be no arrangement with the EU OR, the other countries that they have arrangements with via the EU.
Due to the amount of 'contraband' good the UK send to the EU (fine on its way) there will be very strict customs set u to try to eliminate this.
Ever watched 'Fake Britain'? That give youy the size of the problem the UK has and it will intensify when the new frontiers are in place. | | | |
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