| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it 10:44 - Sep 4 with 14919 views | Archer4721 |
David Davis seems totally out of his depth. May hasn't a clue about anything, whilst Michel Barnier keeps up the pressure saying "extremely serious consequences of leaving single market have not been explained to British people"
“We intend to teach people … what leaving the single market means.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/03/michel-barnier-brexit-education
[Post edited 4 Sep 2017 10:47]
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 16:51 - Sep 4 with 3936 views | imsureazzure |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 14:50 - Sep 4 by No9 |
Thank you for confirming you know nothing at all about this mess.
I would never have believed it |
A mess that was enabled in a very large part by the socialist leader not fully supporting the remain campaign and large swathes of socialist voters voting to leave.
Also the root cause of the referendum was labour rubbing the noses of the right in diversity allowing mass immigration as opposed to the 14000 a year lie was the major factor behind the rise of nationalist views and UKIP.
You socialists need to look a little more reflective and a little less point fingered. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:03 - Sep 4 with 3913 views | No9 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 16:51 - Sep 4 by imsureazzure |
A mess that was enabled in a very large part by the socialist leader not fully supporting the remain campaign and large swathes of socialist voters voting to leave.
Also the root cause of the referendum was labour rubbing the noses of the right in diversity allowing mass immigration as opposed to the 14000 a year lie was the major factor behind the rise of nationalist views and UKIP.
You socialists need to look a little more reflective and a little less point fingered. |
Er, the problems started in the tory party many years ago evn thou' Thatcher was one of (if not the main) architect of the single market she had any number of problems with disidents in the tory ranks &, maybe you are not old enough to remember John Major's problems?
This has never been anything other than tory infighting.
& if you look carefully at the graphs you will see the 'mass' immigration didn't start until after 2010 when the border guards were cut for cost saving purposes -?
UKip has never been anything other than the tories in disguise, we are just waiting for Mr Farage to go back to them. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:03 - Sep 4 with 3913 views | Archer4721 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 16:51 - Sep 4 by imsureazzure |
A mess that was enabled in a very large part by the socialist leader not fully supporting the remain campaign and large swathes of socialist voters voting to leave.
Also the root cause of the referendum was labour rubbing the noses of the right in diversity allowing mass immigration as opposed to the 14000 a year lie was the major factor behind the rise of nationalist views and UKIP.
You socialists need to look a little more reflective and a little less point fingered. |
The mess was caused by Cameron. What sort of idiot PM would call a referendum that he didn't want or support?
It was done to save the Tory Party from splitting and for no other reason. And the in-fighting still goes on today. [Post edited 4 Sep 2017 17:05]
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:09 - Sep 4 with 3902 views | No9 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:03 - Sep 4 by Archer4721 |
The mess was caused by Cameron. What sort of idiot PM would call a referendum that he didn't want or support?
It was done to save the Tory Party from splitting and for no other reason. And the in-fighting still goes on today. [Post edited 4 Sep 2017 17:05]
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& the tories may still split? | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:13 - Sep 4 with 3894 views | imsureazzure |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:03 - Sep 4 by Archer4721 |
The mess was caused by Cameron. What sort of idiot PM would call a referendum that he didn't want or support?
It was done to save the Tory Party from splitting and for no other reason. And the in-fighting still goes on today. [Post edited 4 Sep 2017 17:05]
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Swerved. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:13 - Sep 4 with 3891 views | Archer4721 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:09 - Sep 4 by No9 |
& the tories may still split? |
Indeed they might. It just shows how arrogant and out of touch the tories are with normal people, as May found out to her cost too. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:13 - Sep 4 with 3890 views | Archer4721 |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 17:13 - Sep 4 by imsureazzure |
Swerved. |
How? | | | |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:34 - Sep 4 with 3870 views | unstableblue |
Brexit is THE most ridiculous event in Parliamentary history, and possibly one of the most damaging.
Overnight a political party/movement was created with zero accountability and zero responsibility, with no remit to actually execute the act of leaving the EU. This group was afforded equal airtime to the Remain campaign, a group that itself was well informed, and would itself be reaponsible for Brexit.
The Leave group lied and smeared the subject matter experts. The general public was hoodwinked into believing there would be financial reward for leaving, and a never never land of strict immigration with open trade. Issues such as the Irish border, and of the UKs reliance on EU workforce were barely mentioned above the din of Farage and Gove fabrication.
One area that highlights the sham is the UK baulking at the EUs Brexit 'bill'! We agreed the fiancial terms, money in, and money back, academic research and community projects in the U.K. have built budgets on these. We can't not pay. And I understand that £50bn is already agreed behind the scenes because we have no argument.
As the former UK ambassador to Japan stated during Mays 'lauded' trade trip Japan - "In public the Japanese will say that if the U.K. loses tariff free access to the European market they will reconsider their strategy of the U.K. as their main European partner. In private they are saying - with puzzlement - why has the UK performed such an act of self harm" |  |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:42 - Sep 4 with 3865 views | Luk38644 |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:34 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Brexit is THE most ridiculous event in Parliamentary history, and possibly one of the most damaging.
Overnight a political party/movement was created with zero accountability and zero responsibility, with no remit to actually execute the act of leaving the EU. This group was afforded equal airtime to the Remain campaign, a group that itself was well informed, and would itself be reaponsible for Brexit.
The Leave group lied and smeared the subject matter experts. The general public was hoodwinked into believing there would be financial reward for leaving, and a never never land of strict immigration with open trade. Issues such as the Irish border, and of the UKs reliance on EU workforce were barely mentioned above the din of Farage and Gove fabrication.
One area that highlights the sham is the UK baulking at the EUs Brexit 'bill'! We agreed the fiancial terms, money in, and money back, academic research and community projects in the U.K. have built budgets on these. We can't not pay. And I understand that £50bn is already agreed behind the scenes because we have no argument.
As the former UK ambassador to Japan stated during Mays 'lauded' trade trip Japan - "In public the Japanese will say that if the U.K. loses tariff free access to the European market they will reconsider their strategy of the U.K. as their main European partner. In private they are saying - with puzzlement - why has the UK performed such an act of self harm" |
You're against Brexit?
Blimey, should have said something before. |  | | |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:44 - Sep 4 with 3859 views | unstableblue |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:42 - Sep 4 by Luk38644 |
You're against Brexit?
Blimey, should have said something before. |
I know, I've really got to learn to express myself more. | |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 18:16 - Sep 4 with 3838 views | jaykay |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:44 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
I know, I've really got to learn to express myself more. |
the trouble is you express yourself to well for some |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 19:57 - Sep 4 with 3814 views | Pinewoodblue |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:34 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Brexit is THE most ridiculous event in Parliamentary history, and possibly one of the most damaging.
Overnight a political party/movement was created with zero accountability and zero responsibility, with no remit to actually execute the act of leaving the EU. This group was afforded equal airtime to the Remain campaign, a group that itself was well informed, and would itself be reaponsible for Brexit.
The Leave group lied and smeared the subject matter experts. The general public was hoodwinked into believing there would be financial reward for leaving, and a never never land of strict immigration with open trade. Issues such as the Irish border, and of the UKs reliance on EU workforce were barely mentioned above the din of Farage and Gove fabrication.
One area that highlights the sham is the UK baulking at the EUs Brexit 'bill'! We agreed the fiancial terms, money in, and money back, academic research and community projects in the U.K. have built budgets on these. We can't not pay. And I understand that £50bn is already agreed behind the scenes because we have no argument.
As the former UK ambassador to Japan stated during Mays 'lauded' trade trip Japan - "In public the Japanese will say that if the U.K. loses tariff free access to the European market they will reconsider their strategy of the U.K. as their main European partner. In private they are saying - with puzzlement - why has the UK performed such an act of self harm" |
The most recent ridiculous event wasn't the vote forbrexit but the half hearted negotiations prior to the referendum. Cameron went to the EU and said things have got to change, the EU didn't really give anything.
Cameron then has to convince the voters he got a good deal. Corbyn didn't offer much in the way of support which doomed the outcome. The leavers misrepresentations were dismissed by an electorate who could see that the remainers hadn't conducted themselves any better.
The EU are being no more obstructive than they were before the referendum. Things will change after the German elections. |  |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 20:48 - Sep 4 with 3790 views | JohnTy |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 19:57 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
The most recent ridiculous event wasn't the vote forbrexit but the half hearted negotiations prior to the referendum. Cameron went to the EU and said things have got to change, the EU didn't really give anything.
Cameron then has to convince the voters he got a good deal. Corbyn didn't offer much in the way of support which doomed the outcome. The leavers misrepresentations were dismissed by an electorate who could see that the remainers hadn't conducted themselves any better.
The EU are being no more obstructive than they were before the referendum. Things will change after the German elections. |
We hear a lot about that - it used to be all about the collapse of the EU in the face of populist victories in Holland and France, but when that didn't materialise the narrative switched to the German car makers saving us. There is a counter view - that Germany is unwilling to be seen throwing its weight around, and will leave the negotiations to the EU Commission, and will settle for a harder Brexit than some of its industrialists would like.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/how-brexit-will-change-germany/ |  | | |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 08:46 - Sep 5 with 3731 views | No9 |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 19:57 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
The most recent ridiculous event wasn't the vote forbrexit but the half hearted negotiations prior to the referendum. Cameron went to the EU and said things have got to change, the EU didn't really give anything.
Cameron then has to convince the voters he got a good deal. Corbyn didn't offer much in the way of support which doomed the outcome. The leavers misrepresentations were dismissed by an electorate who could see that the remainers hadn't conducted themselves any better.
The EU are being no more obstructive than they were before the referendum. Things will change after the German elections. |
Cameron didn't do anything relevant.
He didn't want to get anywhere had he done so he would have pi$$ed off the RW of the tories even more & he would have been dumped.
How do you think the German elections are going to chnage Brexit? | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 08:50 - Sep 5 with 3724 views | chicoazul |
I voted Remain but the longer this goes on the more I support Brexit, mainly because it seems to annoy all the right people. |  |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 09:00 - Sep 5 with 3722 views | itfcjoe |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 17:34 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Brexit is THE most ridiculous event in Parliamentary history, and possibly one of the most damaging.
Overnight a political party/movement was created with zero accountability and zero responsibility, with no remit to actually execute the act of leaving the EU. This group was afforded equal airtime to the Remain campaign, a group that itself was well informed, and would itself be reaponsible for Brexit.
The Leave group lied and smeared the subject matter experts. The general public was hoodwinked into believing there would be financial reward for leaving, and a never never land of strict immigration with open trade. Issues such as the Irish border, and of the UKs reliance on EU workforce were barely mentioned above the din of Farage and Gove fabrication.
One area that highlights the sham is the UK baulking at the EUs Brexit 'bill'! We agreed the fiancial terms, money in, and money back, academic research and community projects in the U.K. have built budgets on these. We can't not pay. And I understand that £50bn is already agreed behind the scenes because we have no argument.
As the former UK ambassador to Japan stated during Mays 'lauded' trade trip Japan - "In public the Japanese will say that if the U.K. loses tariff free access to the European market they will reconsider their strategy of the U.K. as their main European partner. In private they are saying - with puzzlement - why has the UK performed such an act of self harm" |
It's utterly pathetic, the Tories have ripped this country apart to try and save their party.
The referendum and it's terms were just an attempt to quiet UKIP down and then they lost their big gamble but kept in power.
They then triggered the 2 year window and called a snap election to try and gain more power, they lost.
And not only that they wasted a big chunk of our negotiation time - we are 1/4 of the way through the negotiation and have made next to no progress - huge questions don't even look like they have been considered let alone answered.
The country needs immigrants, and will be better off in the single market - all this Brexit will happen and nothing will have changed (the number of non-EU migrants is the giveaway there) bar us having to pay handsomely for the privilige....and the people that pay are me and you through a recession that will come, through a weak pound which makes goods more expensive, through the property market falling, through the job market stagnating.
All for nothing. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 09:03 - Sep 5 with 3718 views | noggin |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 08:50 - Sep 5 by chicoazul |
I voted Remain but the longer this goes on the more I support Brexit, mainly because it seems to annoy all the right people. |
I guess that is as good a reason as any to support brexit. |  |
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| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 09:26 - Sep 5 with 3706 views | No9 |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 09:00 - Sep 5 by itfcjoe |
It's utterly pathetic, the Tories have ripped this country apart to try and save their party.
The referendum and it's terms were just an attempt to quiet UKIP down and then they lost their big gamble but kept in power.
They then triggered the 2 year window and called a snap election to try and gain more power, they lost.
And not only that they wasted a big chunk of our negotiation time - we are 1/4 of the way through the negotiation and have made next to no progress - huge questions don't even look like they have been considered let alone answered.
The country needs immigrants, and will be better off in the single market - all this Brexit will happen and nothing will have changed (the number of non-EU migrants is the giveaway there) bar us having to pay handsomely for the privilige....and the people that pay are me and you through a recession that will come, through a weak pound which makes goods more expensive, through the property market falling, through the job market stagnating.
All for nothing. |
Not to mention the considerable sums of taxpayers money being wasted daily by Messrs Davis & Fox ? | | | |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 09:31 - Sep 5 with 3702 views | No9 |
| I'M GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME on 20:48 - Sep 4 by JohnTy |
We hear a lot about that - it used to be all about the collapse of the EU in the face of populist victories in Holland and France, but when that didn't materialise the narrative switched to the German car makers saving us. There is a counter view - that Germany is unwilling to be seen throwing its weight around, and will leave the negotiations to the EU Commission, and will settle for a harder Brexit than some of its industrialists would like.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/how-brexit-will-change-germany/ |
The Germans willl always quietly & efficiently go abut looking after Germany first but, as good Europeans.
They have already commenced their assessments and practical routes to withdraw investment from the UK - without damaging Germany of course.
A look around what Germany owns of the UK capability shows that there will only one loser & that won't be Germany. | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 14:01 - Sep 5 with 3662 views | MattinLondon |
But we're still in the EU and the single market |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 14:09 - Sep 5 with 3656 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 11:28 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU.
The EU has a history of bullying nations who don't tow the line. Remember when Ireland voted not to ratify a revised treaty. The EU bullied the Irish government into holding a second referendum.
A decision has been made, we have to support it. Once the German election is out of the way the EU will enter into proper negotiations. There is no legal basis for an exit bill from EU to UK. If we are obliged to fund capital expenditure in the pipeline then surely we need to be compensated for our share of the assets our contribution over the years have funded.
Get behind your country. A divorce involves the sharing of assets as well as accepting your share of any liability. |
"I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU".
Could equally apply to our current government, given they're going well beyond the scope of the referendum's wishes. I think that's what p1ssing some people off more than the decision to leave. Leave, yes. But then we need a sensible discussion about what the future relationship looks like - no sign of that yet. |  |
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| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 15:12 - Sep 5 with 3621 views | No9 |
Given who owns the telegraph & the amount of politicing they have done this article isn't surprising.
Just inaccurate - at best | | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 15:32 - Sep 5 with 3601 views | vilanovablue |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 14:09 - Sep 5 by Swansea_Blue |
"I find it difficult to understand how you can be supportive of an organisation who's chief negotiator seems determined to punish you, and every other Briton, for a democratic vote to leave the EU".
Could equally apply to our current government, given they're going well beyond the scope of the referendum's wishes. I think that's what p1ssing some people off more than the decision to leave. Leave, yes. But then we need a sensible discussion about what the future relationship looks like - no sign of that yet. |
It doesn't feel like punishment. It feels like our negotiators turning up unprepared with some unrealistic demands. It is also worth noting Davis and co. expecting to negotiate our leaving and a trade deal simultaneously shows how poorly they had thought this through.
We will have a leaving bill based on money we've already committed to spending on an enormous variety of projects although I suspect we aren't going to have to pay quite as much as we probably owe the bill is likely to be 50 million (either pounds or euros).
Raising the subject of the EU being bullies or treating us badly is just nonsense being spoon fed to us by the right-wing press who are slowly beginning to realise what an utter shambles the whole process is becoming.
As Malcolm Tucker once said an "omnishambles" and probably worse...
We are increasingly looking like ending up with some half-baked Norway style arrangement which makes leaving the EU even more pointless. |  | | |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 16:09 - Sep 5 with 3585 views | JohnTy |
| It's all going to go tits up this week isn't it on 15:32 - Sep 5 by vilanovablue |
It doesn't feel like punishment. It feels like our negotiators turning up unprepared with some unrealistic demands. It is also worth noting Davis and co. expecting to negotiate our leaving and a trade deal simultaneously shows how poorly they had thought this through.
We will have a leaving bill based on money we've already committed to spending on an enormous variety of projects although I suspect we aren't going to have to pay quite as much as we probably owe the bill is likely to be 50 million (either pounds or euros).
Raising the subject of the EU being bullies or treating us badly is just nonsense being spoon fed to us by the right-wing press who are slowly beginning to realise what an utter shambles the whole process is becoming.
As Malcolm Tucker once said an "omnishambles" and probably worse...
We are increasingly looking like ending up with some half-baked Norway style arrangement which makes leaving the EU even more pointless. |
Peter Hitchens seems to have summed it up very well: "We will formally leave the EU but we go from being half-in the EU, which we are now, to half-out the EU." | | | |
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