| Nothing to see here 07:32 - Nov 26 with 35940 views | hampstead_blue |
If, and if, JC was doing the right thing by the Jewish people in the Labour party, why would this venerable chap say this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
|  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |  |
| Nothing to see here on 11:27 - Nov 26 with 4551 views | BrightonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:20 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
And yet reports by say John Bercow, who has known Corbyn for decades and says he's never seen or heard anything antisemitic connected to him, are to be dismissed? |
I wouldn't hang my hat on Bercow as an infallible witness!  |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 11:30 - Nov 26 with 4544 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:26 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
If I had a longstanding friend facing a General Election I'd do or say all I could to help him. Correlation doesn't always imply causation, but it certainly throws new light on his comments and the timing of them. The antisemitism issue has been going on for years. Why is he only saying something now? |
Would you though when you held such a position? I wouldn't because it opens you up to exactly the type of criticism you are levelling. It seems a rather naive thing to do and shows poor judgement.
I agreed already it's poor timing and that religious figures shouldn't be interfering in the election campaigns of secular states.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:31 - Nov 26 with 4535 views | ZedRodgers |
| Nothing to see here on 11:25 - Nov 26 by smithy91 |
The current government has been far from great and there are serious issues with crime, policing social care etc but I really fail to see how Corbyn's radical Labour changes are the answer at this moment, especially at a time where we could be financially less stable with brexit. Not everything about this current government appears broken or 'awful'.
Unless most of the motive is anti brexit related... |
Investing in "policing, social care etc" to reverse the "serious issues" really isn't that "radical".
Want things to improve? Vote for the party who are offering solutions. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:32 - Nov 26 with 4532 views | itfcjoe |
| Nothing to see here on 11:25 - Nov 26 by smithy91 |
The current government has been far from great and there are serious issues with crime, policing social care etc but I really fail to see how Corbyn's radical Labour changes are the answer at this moment, especially at a time where we could be financially less stable with brexit. Not everything about this current government appears broken or 'awful'.
Unless most of the motive is anti brexit related... |
Well the handling of Brexit by the Tories is just part of the reason why this lot have been so atrocious, and vindictive over the lst 9 years.
If there is to be a Brexit, I'd prefer a Labour one than the one currently negotiated as there is clearly a huge chance that with the front bench talking about no extension that we end up with a No Deal cliff edge again.
Public services have been cut far too far, and will continue to be under the Tories, that needs to stop and Corbyn/Labour are looking to do that if elected - that is enough for me currently |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:35 - Nov 26 with 4520 views | Herbivore |
I'll be voting with my conscience and will be voting Labour to keep the Tories out. I'm not sure that's what he meant but I don't see how he thinks a vote for the Tories scould ever be considered a sound ethical choice. They've had issues with antisemitism themselves as well as Islamaphobia and other forms of racism, not to mention sexism and rape victim blaming, as well as the hostile environment for immigrants. Oh and Windrush and Grenfell.
Couple that with the appalling rates of child poverty, their willingness to lie constantly to get what they want, and their decimation of public services on their watch and I'm afraid my conscience is steering me a million miles away from the Tories.
That's not to say that the Chief Rabbi's concerns aren't valid and that Labour's handling of antisemitism has been remotely acceptable. They've not done anywhere near enough to swiftly and decisively address the issue. We're faced with an imperfect choice in this election though and I can't agree with him that a vote with a conscience is one that leads to a Tory majority. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:35 - Nov 26 with 4516 views | hampstead_blue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:15 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Oh wow.
Funny how the OP (and his follow-up attack dogs) failed to mention this! |
I don't know the people who have agreed with me on this. Never met them.
The statement is, as someone has said, a polite welcome for the new PM from the head of a religious group.
He doesn't invite him round for a beer. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:37 - Nov 26 with 4503 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:26 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
If I had a longstanding friend facing a General Election I'd do or say all I could to help him. Correlation doesn't always imply causation, but it certainly throws new light on his comments and the timing of them. The antisemitism issue has been going on for years. Why is he only saying something now? |
he calls him a "a longstanding friend and champion of the jewish community". that doesn't in itself mean that he has even met the guy. so you having a 'longstanding friend' is an entirely different thing from a rather formulaic phrase about someone being a friend of a community. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:38 - Nov 26 with 4500 views | hampstead_blue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:31 - Nov 26 by ZedRodgers |
Investing in "policing, social care etc" to reverse the "serious issues" really isn't that "radical".
Want things to improve? Vote for the party who are offering solutions. |
This isn't about policy, although JM's spending with bankrupt us in a heartbeat.
Care to respond to the Chief Rabbi?
He's put himself in line for serious criticism for speaking out against this.
Is he lying? | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Nothing to see here on 11:45 - Nov 26 with 4474 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 11:38 - Nov 26 by hampstead_blue |
This isn't about policy, although JM's spending with bankrupt us in a heartbeat.
Care to respond to the Chief Rabbi?
He's put himself in line for serious criticism for speaking out against this.
Is he lying? |
The chief rabbi has been critical of Labour and Corbyn for a couple of years. This isn't some "out of the blue" involvement.
The only aspect is whether religious leaders should get involved right now - but I can't say I'm massively concerned about that. Those who follow him already know and for the others then it's just another public figure getting involved.
Is he lying? I don't think he is. This is probably what he believes - but Labour have already forcefully rejected the evidence he's claiming. [Post edited 26 Nov 2019 11:48]
|  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:48 - Nov 26 with 4465 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing to see here on 11:32 - Nov 26 by itfcjoe |
Well the handling of Brexit by the Tories is just part of the reason why this lot have been so atrocious, and vindictive over the lst 9 years.
If there is to be a Brexit, I'd prefer a Labour one than the one currently negotiated as there is clearly a huge chance that with the front bench talking about no extension that we end up with a No Deal cliff edge again.
Public services have been cut far too far, and will continue to be under the Tories, that needs to stop and Corbyn/Labour are looking to do that if elected - that is enough for me currently |
There's also this little snippet in the BBC's rolling news that's barely garnered any attention:
"Elsewhere, relative child poverty risks reaching a 60-year high of 34% under the Conservative Party's plans for benefits, according to a new report by the Resolution Foundation."
There are 3.9m children in the UK living in poverty, and it is predicted that this will rise further should the Tories win a majority. Why is this not also huge news? Are the lives of poor kids not important anymore? | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:53 - Nov 26 with 4449 views | tractordownsouth |
Whilst I accept that there has been a rise in anti Semitic incidents, I’m still yet to hear an anti Semitic statement that Mr Corbyn has made. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:32 - Nov 26 with 4409 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nothing to see here on 10:14 - Nov 26 by GlasgowBlue |
The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic".
The report also says Corbyn showed a "lack of consistent leadership on this issue, and his reluctance to separate antisemitism from other forms of racism, has created what some have referred to as a ‘safe space’ for those with vile attitudes towards Jewish people. This situation has been further exacerbated by the Party’s demonstrable incompetence at dealing with members accused of antisemitism".
It also says "Jewish Labour MPs have been subject to appalling levels of abuse, including antisemitic death threats from individuals purporting to be supporters of Mr Corbyn."
And goes on to say "The Labour Party, with its proud history of fighting racism and promoting equal rights, is seen by some as an unwelcoming place for Jewish members and activists."
The Chakrabarti inquiry was a complete whitewash. Can you imagine any other “independent person” giving a political party a c,Dan bill of health and within weeks being made a life peer and appointed shadow attorney general? That was an absolute disgrace. |
"The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic"".
That's not quite right and I don't think quoting out of context helps your case (unless I've missed that part in the report). Are you referring to this, as it's not the same as stating they are institutionally antisemitic:
"25. The Chakrabarti Report is ultimately compromised by its failure to deliver a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of antisemitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with antisemitism. The failure of the Labour Party to deal consistently and effectively with antisemitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic. (Paragraph 118)
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/13610.htm#_id
I've no wish to defend Labour, but we do need accuracy. The accusations are serious, which is why I said we need this current inquiry despite the two previous ones. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:32 - Nov 26 with 4407 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:27 - Nov 26 by BrightonBlue |
I wouldn't hang my hat on Bercow as an infallible witness! |
Oh, is he the wrong kind of Jew again? |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:33 - Nov 26 with 4406 views | Bluesquid |
Well why did Jewish donors and supporters drop support for Jewish Ed Miliband?
Let's see shall we...
"The Labour party is facing desertion by Jewish donors and supporters because of Ed Mili-band's "toxic" anti-Israeli stance over Gaza and Palestine. In a fresh headache for the Labour leader, it is understood that Mr Miliband has been warned that Jewish backers are deserting the party in droves over what community leaders perceive to be a new, aggressive pro-Palestine policy at the expense of Israeli interests."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-funding-crisis-jewish-dono |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 12:34 - Nov 26 with 4402 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing to see here on 12:32 - Nov 26 by Swansea_Blue |
"The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic"".
That's not quite right and I don't think quoting out of context helps your case (unless I've missed that part in the report). Are you referring to this, as it's not the same as stating they are institutionally antisemitic:
"25. The Chakrabarti Report is ultimately compromised by its failure to deliver a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of antisemitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with antisemitism. The failure of the Labour Party to deal consistently and effectively with antisemitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic. (Paragraph 118)
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/13610.htm#_id
I've no wish to defend Labour, but we do need accuracy. The accusations are serious, which is why I said we need this current inquiry despite the two previous ones. |
Lowie has been spending time with the BBC and CCHQ editorial teams by the looks of it. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:36 - Nov 26 with 4393 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Nothing to see here on 08:51 - Nov 26 by StokieBlue |
Regardless of whether you agree with him or not I don't think it's right for the religious leader of any denomination to single out specific parties or people during and election campaign in a secular country.
He could have made the same anti-racism points covering all forms of racism without specifically fingering one individual much like the archbishop did with fake news.
SB |
I was wondering about this in the context of Lutfur Rahman. His election was overturned in part on the basis of 'undue spiritual influence' by local imans. This offence is committed when religious figures tell their supporters that it is forbidden to vote for a certain candidate. |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 12:37 - Nov 26 with 4388 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:30 - Nov 26 by StokieBlue |
Would you though when you held such a position? I wouldn't because it opens you up to exactly the type of criticism you are levelling. It seems a rather naive thing to do and shows poor judgement.
I agreed already it's poor timing and that religious figures shouldn't be interfering in the election campaigns of secular states.
SB |
But he isn't saying anything that's controversial or hasn't already been said, so I don't think there's any issue to his position.
At the end of the day, if he's a lifelong friend of Boris, his position is compromised. And the fact that he's saying it now, a few days before the election, adds weight to this. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:50 - Nov 26 with 4359 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:34 - Nov 26 by Herbivore |
Lowie has been spending time with the BBC and CCHQ editorial teams by the looks of it. |
I may have it wrong, but I've scanned the the report with the find function and I can't find anywhere where they say that the Labour party ARE institutionally antisemitic. Just that there behaviour does little to allay accusations of it.
Worth pointing out also that they specifically mention the need for this issue to be free of inter-party bias:
"128.No party is immune to ‘bad apples’, and it would be naïve to assume that tackling antisemitism in the Labour Party would eliminate it from political discourse altogether. Antisemitism is a problem of such gravity that no party can afford to be complacent. It is an issue that should transcend party loyalties and inter-party conflict." [Post edited 26 Nov 2019 12:52]
| |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:50 - Nov 26 with 4356 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:35 - Nov 26 by hampstead_blue |
I don't know the people who have agreed with me on this. Never met them.
The statement is, as someone has said, a polite welcome for the new PM from the head of a religious group.
He doesn't invite him round for a beer. |
He says he's a longstanding friend. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:51 - Nov 26 with 4345 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:50 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
He says he's a longstanding friend. |
"a longstanding friend and champion of the jewish community".
you need to read to the end of a sentence. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:53 - Nov 26 with 4338 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:37 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
he calls him a "a longstanding friend and champion of the jewish community". that doesn't in itself mean that he has even met the guy. so you having a 'longstanding friend' is an entirely different thing from a rather formulaic phrase about someone being a friend of a community. |
Well if he means longstanding friend of the Jewish community rather than himself (it isn't clear either way) then maybe you can tell me what Boris has done for the Jewish community? | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:54 - Nov 26 with 4329 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:53 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Well if he means longstanding friend of the Jewish community rather than himself (it isn't clear either way) then maybe you can tell me what Boris has done for the Jewish community? |
it is very clear. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:58 - Nov 26 with 4311 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:53 - Nov 26 by tractordownsouth |
Whilst I accept that there has been a rise in anti Semitic incidents, I’m still yet to hear an anti Semitic statement that Mr Corbyn has made. |
Yes, meanwhile Boris was called out on his racist remarks in a live TV debate and acknowledged them but refused to apologise for them.
The UK has everything arse about face at the moment. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 12:59 - Nov 26 with 4308 views | haynes_toe1 |
The 2 real choices we have at this election are the worst I can remember for a long, long time. To the point that i'm not too far from voting Labour for the first time in my life, and I find that difficult to swallow.
But our society is so polarised that things are becoming more and more difficult. Look at this thread - we have Tories desperately trying to stick the knife in on anti-semitism within the Labour party, and we have Labour voters rushing to defend it? Vice-versa with anything in the conservative party.
Look at Brixton on this thread - trying everything possible to dissuade people from the OP. The OP is a damning verdict on anti-semitism within the Labour Party and should be given a lot more credit than "Yeah but this one bloke said Corbyn wasn't anti-semitic".
I mean, it's not all about Corbyn anyway, it's the party in general.
If people could open their minds they'd see:
- Racism in both parties
- Inequality in both parties
- Stupidity in both parties
- Potential economic suicide in both parties.
I'm not sure there's really any 'morally correct' vote like some are saying either. It all just feels so, so depressing when we're discussing these topics at the moment. | | | |
| Nothing to see here on 13:00 - Nov 26 with 4304 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:32 - Nov 26 by Swansea_Blue |
"The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic"".
That's not quite right and I don't think quoting out of context helps your case (unless I've missed that part in the report). Are you referring to this, as it's not the same as stating they are institutionally antisemitic:
"25. The Chakrabarti Report is ultimately compromised by its failure to deliver a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of antisemitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with antisemitism. The failure of the Labour Party to deal consistently and effectively with antisemitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic. (Paragraph 118)
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/13610.htm#_id
I've no wish to defend Labour, but we do need accuracy. The accusations are serious, which is why I said we need this current inquiry despite the two previous ones. |
Looks like Glassers has been hoisted by his own petard. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
