| Nothing to see here 07:32 - Nov 26 with 35937 views | hampstead_blue |
If, and if, JC was doing the right thing by the Jewish people in the Labour party, why would this venerable chap say this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Nothing to see here on 13:03 - Nov 26 with 2349 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:51 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
"a longstanding friend and champion of the jewish community".
you need to read to the end of a sentence. |
It could mean he's a longstanding friend of the Rabbi AND a champion of the Jewish community. But you've decided to read it a different way, to suit your agenda. |  |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:05 - Nov 26 with 2344 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:54 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
it is very clear. |
No it isn't. I have demonstrated how the sentence can be read either way.
Now, what has Boris done to champion the Jewish community? If he's a champion and longstanding friend of them, you'd think there would be a bit of evidence knocking around... | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:10 - Nov 26 with 2321 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 12:59 - Nov 26 by haynes_toe1 |
The 2 real choices we have at this election are the worst I can remember for a long, long time. To the point that i'm not too far from voting Labour for the first time in my life, and I find that difficult to swallow.
But our society is so polarised that things are becoming more and more difficult. Look at this thread - we have Tories desperately trying to stick the knife in on anti-semitism within the Labour party, and we have Labour voters rushing to defend it? Vice-versa with anything in the conservative party.
Look at Brixton on this thread - trying everything possible to dissuade people from the OP. The OP is a damning verdict on anti-semitism within the Labour Party and should be given a lot more credit than "Yeah but this one bloke said Corbyn wasn't anti-semitic".
I mean, it's not all about Corbyn anyway, it's the party in general.
If people could open their minds they'd see:
- Racism in both parties
- Inequality in both parties
- Stupidity in both parties
- Potential economic suicide in both parties.
I'm not sure there's really any 'morally correct' vote like some are saying either. It all just feels so, so depressing when we're discussing these topics at the moment. |
Well you've totally misrepresented me there, so does that make you part of the problem?
I've said the concerns are valid and that Labour haven't done enough. I'm merely questioning the rabbi's motives for releasing this (nothing new) opinion now. All I'm encouraging people to do is look deeper rather than just blatantly except everything you're spoonfed. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:19 - Nov 26 with 2306 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 13:05 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
No it isn't. I have demonstrated how the sentence can be read either way.
Now, what has Boris done to champion the Jewish community? If he's a champion and longstanding friend of them, you'd think there would be a bit of evidence knocking around... |
I think it's more abstract than that: most of this is to welcome him in and set a level for his expected support for the Jewish community and Israel.
Boris has a chequered past on antisemitism and keeping to the script re: Israel. May on the other hand was absolutely an ally and there were few more passionate supporters than the Chief Rabbi:
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/chief-rabbi-praises-prime-minister-theresa-ma |  |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:24 - Nov 26 with 2290 views | Bluesquid |
| Nothing to see here on 13:19 - Nov 26 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's more abstract than that: most of this is to welcome him in and set a level for his expected support for the Jewish community and Israel.
Boris has a chequered past on antisemitism and keeping to the script re: Israel. May on the other hand was absolutely an ally and there were few more passionate supporters than the Chief Rabbi:
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/chief-rabbi-praises-prime-minister-theresa-ma |
Quelle surprise...
"Theresa May dined with Chief Rabbi on night before becoming PM."
Friends...
"The Chief Rabbi also thanked David Cameron "for his deep friendship and for his unwavering commitment to promoting the values of decency, respect, liberty and responsibility, which we all hold so dear." |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 13:28 - Nov 26 with 2279 views | ZedRodgers |
| Nothing to see here on 12:32 - Nov 26 by Swansea_Blue |
"The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic"".
That's not quite right and I don't think quoting out of context helps your case (unless I've missed that part in the report). Are you referring to this, as it's not the same as stating they are institutionally antisemitic:
"25. The Chakrabarti Report is ultimately compromised by its failure to deliver a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of antisemitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with antisemitism. The failure of the Labour Party to deal consistently and effectively with antisemitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic. (Paragraph 118)
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/13610.htm#_id
I've no wish to defend Labour, but we do need accuracy. The accusations are serious, which is why I said we need this current inquiry despite the two previous ones. |
Remarkable to see GB inadvertently misleading the forum again, particularly on this issue.
I'm not entirely sure what there is to gain from such a deceitful approach to this. From where I'm standing, all this kind of thing does is highlight GB's absence of sincerity. |  |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:29 - Nov 26 with 2270 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Nothing to see here on 13:10 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Well you've totally misrepresented me there, so does that make you part of the problem?
I've said the concerns are valid and that Labour haven't done enough. I'm merely questioning the rabbi's motives for releasing this (nothing new) opinion now. All I'm encouraging people to do is look deeper rather than just blatantly except everything you're spoonfed. |
Sorry, i've not read the whole thread so if you've credited the concerns then fair enough.
And 'looking deeper' is fair enough - but it works both ways. It's probably just human tendency but a Labour voter will look deeper to dry and disprove anti-semitism yet take the first thing about islamophobia within the conservative party would be taken as gospel, and vice versa. | | | |
| Nothing to see here on 13:32 - Nov 26 with 2261 views | jeera |
"But he claims "the overwhelming majority of British Jews are gripped by anxiety" at the prospect of a Labour victory in 12 December's general election."
Why, what exactly are we expecting to happen here?
I did ask the other week but don't recall much of a response.
Why would British Jews be 'gripped with anxiety' at the prospect of a Labour government? |  |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:40 - Nov 26 with 2236 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 13:24 - Nov 26 by Bluesquid |
Quelle surprise...
"Theresa May dined with Chief Rabbi on night before becoming PM."
Friends...
"The Chief Rabbi also thanked David Cameron "for his deep friendship and for his unwavering commitment to promoting the values of decency, respect, liberty and responsibility, which we all hold so dear." |
Nicked off of twitter
Don't think it uses the word 'friends' but the gist is very similar. |  |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:43 - Nov 26 with 2224 views | ZedRodgers |
| Nothing to see here on 13:32 - Nov 26 by jeera |
"But he claims "the overwhelming majority of British Jews are gripped by anxiety" at the prospect of a Labour victory in 12 December's general election."
Why, what exactly are we expecting to happen here?
I did ask the other week but don't recall much of a response.
Why would British Jews be 'gripped with anxiety' at the prospect of a Labour government? |
The conversation ends when you ask those kinds of questions.
At best, you'll get a relatively short list of links to isolated antisemitic incidents from Labour members, some of which will be Jewish themselves.
You'll never get a coherent explanation as to which policies or actions Corbyn's Labour are intending to carry out which would negatively affect Jewish life in any kind of way. This is because there aren't any. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:43 - Nov 26 with 2221 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 13:40 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Nicked off of twitter
Don't think it uses the word 'friends' but the gist is very similar. |
he says that he wants to 'work together' with boris. bloody tory.
(dolly, have I got that right?) |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:44 - Nov 26 with 2211 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 13:24 - Nov 26 by Bluesquid |
Quelle surprise...
"Theresa May dined with Chief Rabbi on night before becoming PM."
Friends...
"The Chief Rabbi also thanked David Cameron "for his deep friendship and for his unwavering commitment to promoting the values of decency, respect, liberty and responsibility, which we all hold so dear." |
Thanks, and thanks to Darth as well. There's often something going on behind the headline when you dig a little deeper. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:44 - Nov 26 with 2212 views | jeera |
| Nothing to see here on 13:40 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Nicked off of twitter
Don't think it uses the word 'friends' but the gist is very similar. |
"As some are anxious about the new premiership, given previous comments about Muslim communities..."
I'm not sure that's quite the same thing buh! | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:44 - Nov 26 with 2212 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 13:28 - Nov 26 by ZedRodgers |
Remarkable to see GB inadvertently misleading the forum again, particularly on this issue.
I'm not entirely sure what there is to gain from such a deceitful approach to this. From where I'm standing, all this kind of thing does is highlight GB's absence of sincerity. |
It's what he does. Unfortunately from seeing how the likes of the Mail, GnasherJew, Rachel Riley, assorted Labour and non-Labour politicians succeed in convincing neutrals using that tactic.
Finding the truth takes time, a degree of skepticism and cross-checking re: sources and then the likelihood of being misrepresented and called an antisemite by someone when you counter the wildest claims.
Meanwhile the accusation has already been circulating in the mainstream, being amplified and exaggerated on social media or in the right-wing press. Or uncritically repeated by the supposedly neutral and serious media.
We also know how this works from seeing how Brexit has played out. Sure, enough people know the accusations and statements aren't accurate in the first place to stop it being a consensus view, although that doesn't seem to have helped avoid Brexit with the millions of people who do take this stuff at face value. [Post edited 26 Nov 2019 13:47]
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| Nothing to see here on 13:46 - Nov 26 with 2206 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 13:43 - Nov 26 by ZedRodgers |
The conversation ends when you ask those kinds of questions.
At best, you'll get a relatively short list of links to isolated antisemitic incidents from Labour members, some of which will be Jewish themselves.
You'll never get a coherent explanation as to which policies or actions Corbyn's Labour are intending to carry out which would negatively affect Jewish life in any kind of way. This is because there aren't any. |
Maybe you should ask some of the scared jews about why they fear Corbyn, rather than just telling them that there's no good reason for their fear?
Maybe you have? i don't know. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:48 - Nov 26 with 2193 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 13:44 - Nov 26 by jeera |
"As some are anxious about the new premiership, given previous comments about Muslim communities..."
I'm not sure that's quite the same thing buh! |
Its a welcome message! They've been true to themselves in including that line, but it's more or less the same thing. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:49 - Nov 26 with 2176 views | jeera |
| Nothing to see here on 13:48 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Its a welcome message! They've been true to themselves in including that line, but it's more or less the same thing. |
Sounded to me like they were nervous.
Mate, it's diplomacy, you know that.
It's Johnson. No one in their right mind would be happy. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:52 - Nov 26 with 2162 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 13:49 - Nov 26 by jeera |
Sounded to me like they were nervous.
Mate, it's diplomacy, you know that.
It's Johnson. No one in their right mind would be happy. |
Yeah we're agreeing - diplomacy. Just like the Rabbi's letter was (although I can see there's a difference of tone). | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:55 - Nov 26 with 2149 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 13:52 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Yeah we're agreeing - diplomacy. Just like the Rabbi's letter was (although I can see there's a difference of tone). |
And a difference in content ... they're asking him to act. Like Baroness Warsi and others have. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:57 - Nov 26 with 2135 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 13:43 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
he says that he wants to 'work together' with boris. bloody tory.
(dolly, have I got that right?) |
Still waiting for you to link me to all these things our 'Jewish champion' Boris has done for the Jewish community... | |
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| Nothing to see here on 13:59 - Nov 26 with 2126 views | jeera |
| Nothing to see here on 13:52 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Yeah we're agreeing - diplomacy. Just like the Rabbi's letter was (although I can see there's a difference of tone). |
Well no, the rabbi's letter was the opposite wasn't it.
Not much welcoming there. It's a full-on attack at election time.
I'm not even saying he's wrong. I'm asking what British Jewish people have to fear in real terms. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 14:00 - Nov 26 with 2122 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 13:46 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Maybe you should ask some of the scared jews about why they fear Corbyn, rather than just telling them that there's no good reason for their fear?
Maybe you have? i don't know. |
Why did you say you were afraid? What was your good reason?
This isn't denying Jewish people are afraid. Many are and it's awful. But I do think certain headlines and other extreme allegations have been very unhelpful on that score. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 14:02 - Nov 26 with 2110 views | Bluesquid |
| Nothing to see here on 13:40 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Nicked off of twitter
Don't think it uses the word 'friends' but the gist is very similar. |
Well actually when referring to Cameron he said "deep friendship".
Suddenly things are so much clearer. | | | |
| Nothing to see here on 14:07 - Nov 26 with 2089 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 14:00 - Nov 26 by Darth_Koont |
Why did you say you were afraid? What was your good reason?
This isn't denying Jewish people are afraid. Many are and it's awful. But I do think certain headlines and other extreme allegations have been very unhelpful on that score. |
Rightly or wrongly, I think the world is closing in jews a bit. No doubt mainly from the far right, but when it comes from the left too, fears come in. | |
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| Nothing to see here on 14:13 - Nov 26 with 2070 views | jeera |
| Nothing to see here on 14:07 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Rightly or wrongly, I think the world is closing in jews a bit. No doubt mainly from the far right, but when it comes from the left too, fears come in. |
The world is certainly a funny place at the moment and not a great deal makes much sense.
The Israel/Palestine situation upsets a lot of people and unfortunately some can't separate the state of Israel and regular Jewish folk. I get that.
I am genuinely interested to know how this will [or could] affect British Jews if a Labour government were to be elected though.
Is the suggestion that some morons will take to the streets, feeling empowered or something?
There was an incident the other day wasn't there, where a family were being abused and a Muslim lady stepped in. Horrible and wonderful story all at once. [Post edited 26 Nov 2019 14:15]
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