| Poppy watch update 18:46 - Nov 9 with 6051 views | Dubtractor |
Ffs
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:43 - Nov 10 with 2375 views | monytowbray |
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| Poppy watch update on 19:48 - Nov 10 with 2364 views | m14_blue |
| Poppy watch update on 18:39 - Nov 10 by Churchman |
If you’ve finished your pie, I’d be interested in what you mean by ‘hideous caricature of remembrance’? I’d like to know, having been on Horse Guards today. [Post edited 10 Nov 2019 18:40]
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Stand down.
It’s perfectly obvious what he means and equally obvious that he’s not talking about you or the ceremony you attended.
The thread started with a man in a giant poppy costume ffs. |  | | |
| Poppy watch update on 20:13 - Nov 10 with 2333 views | Churchman |
| Poppy watch update on 19:29 - Nov 10 by jeera |
I think it's pretty clear he's referring to the elaborate displays that miss the point of remembrance, such as shown there in the OP.
Hope today went well and received the reception it deserves. |
Yes, today went well thanks. And thank you for asking, Jeera. |  | | |
| Poppy watch update on 21:02 - Nov 10 with 2298 views | Churchman |
| Poppy watch update on 09:15 - Nov 10 by Mullet |
My great uncle shot himself in Italy (if I remember rightly). We were never told he existed until a couple of years before my Nan's death. I don't know if it's an existing British trait that made it shameful, or evidence that stuff like this has always existed. That it's considered less weird to pervert the war memory and celebrate it instead like this.
However, I've always felt that out of the many men in my family who fought and died or lived much shorter lives because of it, his story is now pretty much lost.
I find what that bloke has done gaudy, and makes him look really odd, but I wonder if the Poppy Olympics has been competed in for as long as there's been poppies. |
Mullet, there is nothing about your great uncle in any way shape or form that is ‘shameful’ and his story should never be lost. It should be told. I have been fortunate enough to meet so many amazing people and I happen to know that none would disagree with me. Not one.
As far as people dressed as giant poppies and all that rubbish, it just doesn’t really register with me, which is why I was overly prickly with Factors. Apologies. | | | |
| Poppy watch update on 21:40 - Nov 10 with 2256 views | jeera |
| Poppy watch update on 21:02 - Nov 10 by Churchman |
Mullet, there is nothing about your great uncle in any way shape or form that is ‘shameful’ and his story should never be lost. It should be told. I have been fortunate enough to meet so many amazing people and I happen to know that none would disagree with me. Not one.
As far as people dressed as giant poppies and all that rubbish, it just doesn’t really register with me, which is why I was overly prickly with Factors. Apologies. |
As Mullet and you allude to, so many ordinary people thrown into an extraordinary situation that they were not equipped to deal with. So much to bear, so much trauma.
The mind cannot cope and shouldn't have to. |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 21:51 - Nov 10 with 2235 views | jeera |
| Poppy watch update on 20:13 - Nov 10 by Churchman |
Yes, today went well thanks. And thank you for asking, Jeera. |
I'm glad.
I still feel that Remembrance is important, but again, as most of us tend to agree, it's a time of reflection and should not be an opportunity to boast.
My grandad served in WW2. I say served and not 'fought' because he was a cook in the army! But soldiers have got to eat, right? Plus, bless him, he was dumped into some busy places; Italy and then Malta (where he met my nan!). She had a hard time in Malta, her family bombed from their home, lost their livelihoods etc. This was on my mum's side.
My dad served his National Service at the Suez in the early 50s. As did most of his brothers. The eldest served in WW2 but I don't know too much about his service other than he was accused of accidentally shooting down his wing-commander's plane. I still don't know if that story was real or not. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 3:17]
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| Poppy watch update on 22:12 - Nov 10 with 2210 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Poppy watch update on 21:51 - Nov 10 by jeera |
I'm glad.
I still feel that Remembrance is important, but again, as most of us tend to agree, it's a time of reflection and should not be an opportunity to boast.
My grandad served in WW2. I say served and not 'fought' because he was a cook in the army! But soldiers have got to eat, right? Plus, bless him, he was dumped into some busy places; Italy and then Malta (where he met my nan!). She had a hard time in Malta, her family bombed from their home, lost their livelihoods etc. This was on my mum's side.
My dad served his National Service at the Suez in the early 50s. As did most of his brothers. The eldest served in WW2 but I don't know too much about his service other than he was accused of accidentally shooting down his wing-commander's plane. I still don't know if that story was real or not. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 3:17]
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My grandad always told us he was a navigator on the Lancasters. When he died and we were clearing out his house, we found a few old pictures that clearly showed he had the bomb aimer signal on his uniform. He'd talk about his time in the war, but only trainig in Canada or the off-duty time with his Ausie crew - never missions. He gave his full unifor to the local kids to decorate their 'Guy' on the first Nov 5th after he was discharged. Luckily, my gran saved his medals and now I have them, but he never knew - he was happier thinking they been thrown away with every other physical reminder of what he'd been put through.
He obviously couldn't deal with what had happened. He'd be horrified by the popularisation and boasting that goes on now. |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 23:01 - Nov 10 with 2174 views | Churchman |
| Poppy watch update on 21:51 - Nov 10 by jeera |
I'm glad.
I still feel that Remembrance is important, but again, as most of us tend to agree, it's a time of reflection and should not be an opportunity to boast.
My grandad served in WW2. I say served and not 'fought' because he was a cook in the army! But soldiers have got to eat, right? Plus, bless him, he was dumped into some busy places; Italy and then Malta (where he met my nan!). She had a hard time in Malta, her family bombed from their home, lost their livelihoods etc. This was on my mum's side.
My dad served his National Service at the Suez in the early 50s. As did most of his brothers. The eldest served in WW2 but I don't know too much about his service other than he was accused of accidentally shooting down his wing-commander's plane. I still don't know if that story was real or not. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 3:17]
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Reflection never boast captures it perfectly for me - you will never find anyone who did anything that will do the latter.
Yep, we all have to eat and no Service can operate without the people that support it - fitters, armourers, cooks, parachute people, kit, fuel, etc etc etc (inadequate words but it’s been a long day, so it’s a bit airforce biased). It’s a coincidence but best mate’s dad was a cook in the army in the desert in WW2. He and they had to make the best of it when the desert was just as much an enemy as the enemy! It was truly ghastly but without him and his mates, how could the 8th army have functioned? People who did and do this stuff were/are integral to the services and whilst they were not in the same direct danger as say infantry of tank crews it wasn’t/isn’t ‘safe’ in any way shape or form, whether working under fire or anything else. They parade at the Cenotaph and so they flippin well should!
As for your nan. Malta? Wow. I know you will know the story of Malta, but your nan was (hopefully still is) one gritty lady of one amazing people. I love Malta and their story is truly inspiring. I have always felt a full and proper (modern) film should have been made about the siege and in particular to close one event, Operation Pedestal - the attempt to get supplies through to save a people who were starving and an airforce out of fuel and aeroplanes and totally at the end of the line before having to surrender. They didn’t and they won. Astonishing people.
My dad also did National Service late 40s early 50s. He was a radar operator and near the end of his service nodded off. It all went wrong and a chunk of Cornwall lost its radar cover. He was so close to being demobbed he kept his stripes and was detailed to escort a load of prisoners to goodness knows where. A couple of them were old buddies from basic training and after too many beers lost them. How he got away with it I’ve absolutely no idea😃. And neither has he. | | | |
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| Poppy watch update on 23:50 - Nov 10 with 2147 views | Churchman |
| Poppy watch update on 22:12 - Nov 10 by Swansea_Blue |
My grandad always told us he was a navigator on the Lancasters. When he died and we were clearing out his house, we found a few old pictures that clearly showed he had the bomb aimer signal on his uniform. He'd talk about his time in the war, but only trainig in Canada or the off-duty time with his Ausie crew - never missions. He gave his full unifor to the local kids to decorate their 'Guy' on the first Nov 5th after he was discharged. Luckily, my gran saved his medals and now I have them, but he never knew - he was happier thinking they been thrown away with every other physical reminder of what he'd been put through.
He obviously couldn't deal with what had happened. He'd be horrified by the popularisation and boasting that goes on now. |
My grandad gave his medals to his parents and told them to get rid. His uniform was burnt. My father in law, a DDay vet, had an active war in Europe and the Far East. He contributed to all sorts of things financially but never attended anything. We both knew why.
Remembrance is dealt with in different ways at different times in people’s lives. It’s a very personal thing and has nothing whatsoever to do with popularisation or boasting. | | | |
| Poppy watch update on 02:22 - Nov 11 with 2115 views | jeera |
| Poppy watch update on 23:50 - Nov 10 by Churchman |
My grandad gave his medals to his parents and told them to get rid. His uniform was burnt. My father in law, a DDay vet, had an active war in Europe and the Far East. He contributed to all sorts of things financially but never attended anything. We both knew why.
Remembrance is dealt with in different ways at different times in people’s lives. It’s a very personal thing and has nothing whatsoever to do with popularisation or boasting. |
I have my grandad's medals and also I have an Army issue Italian phrase book that was his from that campaign.
I lived around Chedburgh area for several years and close-by was an elderly neighbour whom I never got to know. He was a rather eccentric chap with a long white beard and liked to keep himself to himself. He paid a gardener to mow his lawn but the gardener was under strict instruction to leave a section of the garden rough for wildlife. I liked that.
In prominent position in his front garden was/is a flagpole.
Many times I'd walk by across the road and he would be out there running up a flag; I suppose those of squadrons that had once operated from there. Not just British, but Polish too, (and possibly others). Chedburgh was a busy Lancaster base back in the day and I've heard lots of stories from people who lived/worked there during the war. The base suffered its share of casualties including an entire crew lost that crashed coming in to land in a damaged plane.
He would stand and salute the flag, alone, quietly. He wasn't doing it for anyone else. It was clearly a personal matter for him.
We never spoke but on the odd occasion I saw him performing this I would respectfully stop and bow my head towards him. No words. He would do the same in return.
Some people would make some unkind comments about him but I think most liked what they saw. | |
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| Poppy watch update on 08:16 - Nov 11 with 2039 views | itfcjoe |
| Poppy watch update on 21:40 - Nov 10 by jeera |
As Mullet and you allude to, so many ordinary people thrown into an extraordinary situation that they were not equipped to deal with. So much to bear, so much trauma.
The mind cannot cope and shouldn't have to. |
I was speaking to my Dad about this over the weekend, his Dad died in 1983 before I was born but he said he never, ever spoke about his service - he knows he was stationed in a couple of places and has a few medals (presumably just for seeing active combat) and that he was once in an ammunitions truck that was very close to being blown up but that is it. never spoke to him about it, was never told about it.
He was my age when his Dad died, and regrets not ever trying to speak about it, but that generation saw such horrors - closing it out of your mind was probably your only option. Some could do that, or do it to an extent where it was as gone as needed to be to continue to function - others clearly couldn't.
The generation that were born in the late 20's and early 30's were sent to their deaths by some posh generals in the main - things like the Somme in WW1 were the same and an absolute tragedy, human life treated like pieces in a game [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 8:20]
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| Poppy watch update on 08:26 - Nov 11 with 2027 views | DanTheMan |
| Poppy watch update on 08:16 - Nov 11 by itfcjoe |
I was speaking to my Dad about this over the weekend, his Dad died in 1983 before I was born but he said he never, ever spoke about his service - he knows he was stationed in a couple of places and has a few medals (presumably just for seeing active combat) and that he was once in an ammunitions truck that was very close to being blown up but that is it. never spoke to him about it, was never told about it.
He was my age when his Dad died, and regrets not ever trying to speak about it, but that generation saw such horrors - closing it out of your mind was probably your only option. Some could do that, or do it to an extent where it was as gone as needed to be to continue to function - others clearly couldn't.
The generation that were born in the late 20's and early 30's were sent to their deaths by some posh generals in the main - things like the Somme in WW1 were the same and an absolute tragedy, human life treated like pieces in a game [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 8:20]
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Just a note on the WW1 posh generals thing, by percentage more officers died than regular soldiers. |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 08:37 - Nov 11 with 2012 views | itfcjoe |
| Poppy watch update on 08:26 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
Just a note on the WW1 posh generals thing, by percentage more officers died than regular soldiers. |
Thanks for the clarification there, won't edit post but will take it on board for future reference | |
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| Poppy watch update on 08:44 - Nov 11 with 1992 views | DanTheMan |
| Poppy watch update on 08:37 - Nov 11 by itfcjoe |
Thanks for the clarification there, won't edit post but will take it on board for future reference |
It's fine, just one of those myths that's persisted for years and years about WW1.
My "favourite" being (and this is still taught) how harsh the Treaty of Versailles was. It was not at all harsh, it was fairly tame. Hitler just made it sound incredibly harsh because it furthered his agenda.
And yet decades on we teach Hitlers version of events to children. Crazy. | |
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| Poppy watch update on 08:51 - Nov 11 with 1983 views | Darth_Koont |
| Poppy watch update on 08:26 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
Just a note on the WW1 posh generals thing, by percentage more officers died than regular soldiers. |
Indeed. I suppose the injustice was more that ordinary soldiers were fighting (and working families were sacrificing their sons, fathers and husbands) for a country that didn't treat them all that well in normal life.
If any good came out of the war, it was that social and workers' rights became much more important and a part of society. |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 09:12 - Nov 11 with 1956 views | giant_stow |
| Poppy watch update on 08:44 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
It's fine, just one of those myths that's persisted for years and years about WW1.
My "favourite" being (and this is still taught) how harsh the Treaty of Versailles was. It was not at all harsh, it was fairly tame. Hitler just made it sound incredibly harsh because it furthered his agenda.
And yet decades on we teach Hitlers version of events to children. Crazy. |
That's interesting mr - I was taught that it was the reparations regime that was overly harsh - left nothing for Germany to rebuild with, so the lesson went - that's wrong? |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 09:26 - Nov 11 with 1937 views | DanTheMan |
| Poppy watch update on 09:12 - Nov 11 by giant_stow |
That's interesting mr - I was taught that it was the reparations regime that was overly harsh - left nothing for Germany to rebuild with, so the lesson went - that's wrong? |
Yup, the reparations were really not that bad. And even then they were not even properly enforced.
A few decades earlier Germany has enforced much harsher reparations after the Franco-Prussian war. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 9:26]
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| Poppy watch update on 09:32 - Nov 11 with 1923 views | giant_stow |
| Poppy watch update on 09:26 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
Yup, the reparations were really not that bad. And even then they were not even properly enforced.
A few decades earlier Germany has enforced much harsher reparations after the Franco-Prussian war. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 9:26]
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Intriguing, thanks. I could understand why a German child might be taught that, but no idea why I was. | |
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| Poppy watch update on 09:54 - Nov 11 with 1905 views | factual_blue |
| Poppy watch update on 08:26 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
Just a note on the WW1 posh generals thing, by percentage more officers died than regular soldiers. |
Going back to Arnhem, it's interesting to see how posh the Guards Regiments were (those regiments were in XXX Corps, attempting to link up with the airborne forces at the various bridges). You almost do a double take when you read there were officers like Captain The Duke of Rutland and Captain The Lord Carrington. |  |
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| Poppy watch update on 10:05 - Nov 11 with 1880 views | GeoffSentence |
| Poppy watch update on 08:44 - Nov 11 by DanTheMan |
It's fine, just one of those myths that's persisted for years and years about WW1.
My "favourite" being (and this is still taught) how harsh the Treaty of Versailles was. It was not at all harsh, it was fairly tame. Hitler just made it sound incredibly harsh because it furthered his agenda.
And yet decades on we teach Hitlers version of events to children. Crazy. |
Also worth noting that the Treaty Of Versailles was also considerably less harsh than the Treat Of Brest-Litovsk which Germany and Austro-Hungary had imposed on The Soviets in March 1918. |  |
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