| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 16:28 - Nov 29 with 7415 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 15:07 - Nov 29 by heavyweight |
The UK's annual net contribution is around £8.5bn and it seems reasonable to pay upto not only when we leave but the end of the funding cycle , which is 2020.
There is the additional cost of pensions etc which I guess are on-going costs that have implicitly been agreed to.
The bulk of the rest is for projects that have been agreed in principal but not yet started and will not be started until beyond the end of the funding cycle (if at all!) I don't really think these costs should be included as by definition they would be part of another funding cycle. (If a country was due to be a recipient of these projects but left before they materialised - they would not then expect to benefit from them)
If the final bill is in the order of £50bn - that is about 6 years worth of payments which does not seem at all reasonable. Considering the funding cycle ends just a year after the UK exit |
Pretty much tight, although I very much doubt any projects have been agreed for the next funding cycle.Programme Budgets haven't been agreed yet. I think these commitments relate to projects in this cycle (to end of 2020). Plus pensions, share of physical assets, etc |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 16:56 - Nov 29 with 7376 views | blue_oyster |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 15:55 - Nov 29 by Guthrum |
To talk to them about the things we want to (a trade deal). Otherwise we don't get to. Them's the rules, as determined by the people making the final decision.
And it's only an agreement of liability. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, we don't pay that sum except as part of an agreed deal. |
What rules? This is two parties negotiating an agreement. Why does one party have to pay the other party before a negotiation? If we don't pay that sum except part of an agreed deal, then how can you commit to that sum if you don't know what the deal is? |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:04 - Nov 29 with 7368 views | Guthrum |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 16:56 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
What rules? This is two parties negotiating an agreement. Why does one party have to pay the other party before a negotiation? If we don't pay that sum except part of an agreed deal, then how can you commit to that sum if you don't know what the deal is? |
The EU has the whip hand, if we want a good trade deal. Things get discussed in the order they want. And we're not paying for a deal. The UK is agreeing to honour certain of our existing long-term commitments as part of a comprehensive agreement. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:13 - Nov 29 with 7359 views | blue_oyster |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:04 - Nov 29 by Guthrum |
The EU has the whip hand, if we want a good trade deal. Things get discussed in the order they want. And we're not paying for a deal. The UK is agreeing to honour certain of our existing long-term commitments as part of a comprehensive agreement. |
They do have the whip hand if you hand over money for nothing, before the negotiation. We haven't committed to anything yet. There's many believe that the UK is in the better bargaining position. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:14 - Nov 29 with 7347 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 14:09 - Nov 29 by Archer4721 |
Well he's been calling me "Facey" for years. It seems anyone who gives him a bit of stick is this poor "Facey" chap.
Arf. |
Is being 'Pazelle' better or worse ?. Being a relative newcomer to twtd world I am genuinely intrigued. What is a Pazelle ? |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:16 - Nov 29 with 7343 views | J2BLUE |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:14 - Nov 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Is being 'Pazelle' better or worse ?. Being a relative newcomer to twtd world I am genuinely intrigued. What is a Pazelle ? |
Blue Oyster.
Times 1000.
Cross bred with CIL.
And David Icke. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:17 - Nov 29 with 7344 views | blueislander |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:13 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
They do have the whip hand if you hand over money for nothing, before the negotiation. We haven't committed to anything yet. There's many believe that the UK is in the better bargaining position. |
Could you give the reasoning behind your last sentence please? |  | | |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:39 - Nov 29 with 7323 views | greenkingtone |
Can someone explain why Davis, Gove, Redwood, Reece-Mog, Johnson, and other apparently well educated people, are persisting with Brexit which they know will be a disaster for us. Surely now we can see more of what we are letting ourselves in for, its time to think again about the referendum result rather than cut off our noses to spite our face.
The Third World has no money and they hate us anyway, and unlikely to do us any favours. The main trading partner is Europe and that i why I voted remain. |  | | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:43 - Nov 29 with 7312 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:13 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
They do have the whip hand if you hand over money for nothing, before the negotiation. We haven't committed to anything yet. There's many believe that the UK is in the better bargaining position. |
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
There's many who don't know their @rse from their elbow too - and certainly have no concept of the world we're now jostling to be a part of. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:49 - Nov 29 with 7307 views | Guthrum |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:13 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
They do have the whip hand if you hand over money for nothing, before the negotiation. We haven't committed to anything yet. There's many believe that the UK is in the better bargaining position. |
We need a deal more than they do. A hard Brexit still leaves the EU as one of the world's largest and wealthiest trading blocs. They'll take a bit of damage, but not as much as us. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:25 - Nov 29 with 7280 views | blue_oyster |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:49 - Nov 29 by Guthrum |
We need a deal more than they do. A hard Brexit still leaves the EU as one of the world's largest and wealthiest trading blocs. They'll take a bit of damage, but not as much as us. |
Who knows? What we do know is that we've just coughed up £50bn for apparently nothing. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:40 - Nov 29 with 7263 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 13:42 - Nov 29 by hype313 |
Believe it now means because we are committed to pay until we leave, they will now engage with us over trade talks. |
That depends still on the people deal, and the Irish issues. £50bn ish is just the divorce bill. We will have to pay a lot, lot more to start trading.
UK has caved in on every single issue so far. And will continue to do so. | | | |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:43 - Nov 29 with 7261 views | vapour_trail |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:13 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
They do have the whip hand if you hand over money for nothing, before the negotiation. We haven't committed to anything yet. There's many believe that the UK is in the better bargaining position. |
Hmm. Not sure there’s many. People of severely limited intellect perhaps.
David Davis to be fair to him has attempted your suggested negotiating strategy of refusing to put in place a monetary framework but he was told no dice. The government have decided that they need to play dice so have agreed to what the 27 want.
If I were you I’d try and get used to that as a general theme now, otherwise youre going to find yourself shocked rather regularly. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:44 - Nov 29 with 7259 views | Guthrum |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:25 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
Who knows? What we do know is that we've just coughed up £50bn for apparently nothing. |
Not quite. We've put something nice on the negotiating table in the hope they'll reciprocate as promised. If the rest of the deal is no good, we have the right to turn it down, keep our money and face any consequences.
As I said earlier, it's only £50bn, not like we've put down the family silver on this. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 19:24 - Nov 29 with 7240 views | blue_oyster |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 18:44 - Nov 29 by Guthrum |
Not quite. We've put something nice on the negotiating table in the hope they'll reciprocate as promised. If the rest of the deal is no good, we have the right to turn it down, keep our money and face any consequences.
As I said earlier, it's only £50bn, not like we've put down the family silver on this. |
That doesn't make sense. The EU wanted a guarantee of that money before negotiating. Face it, they've secured £50bn (that's a lot of hospitals and houses) and we've secured nothing. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 19:34 - Nov 29 with 7230 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:49 - Nov 29 by Guthrum |
We need a deal more than they do. A hard Brexit still leaves the EU as one of the world's largest and wealthiest trading blocs. They'll take a bit of damage, but not as much as us. |
The other factor with the settlement that cant be ignored is if we try to get clever, even if we can technically get away with it, we are negotiating hundreds of new trade deals straight after settling this one.
Do people really think it's wise to come out of this one looking like we've ripped off the country/ countries we were just in a deal with? 'Hey USA, I know we just walked out on our obligations with a previous trade group and the whole thing left both parties in a real mess, but we wouldn't do that to you guys, honest'. |  | | |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:29 - Nov 29 with 7200 views | Vic |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 11:44 - Nov 29 by Darth_Koont |
It occurs to me that it's one time the incompetence of government representatives and party politicians may well work in everyone's best interests.
There's been an inability to negotiate and find solutions with the EU, a total lack of purpose and optimism from our murmured discussions with future trade partners and now a huge divorce bill ... a final Commons vote on this "deal" would only go one way. |
DK - in reality can you name anyone who has ever 'negotiated' with the EU and got a good deal? All I've ever seen is that they don't do deals, they simply dictate what others will do. It's their strength, and will, I suspect, be their undoing in a few years time. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:30 - Nov 29 with 7196 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:29 - Nov 29 by Vic |
DK - in reality can you name anyone who has ever 'negotiated' with the EU and got a good deal? All I've ever seen is that they don't do deals, they simply dictate what others will do. It's their strength, and will, I suspect, be their undoing in a few years time. |
If what you say is true, if only we could be part of such a negotiating powerhouse... |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:54 - Nov 29 with 7179 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:29 - Nov 29 by Vic |
DK - in reality can you name anyone who has ever 'negotiated' with the EU and got a good deal? All I've ever seen is that they don't do deals, they simply dictate what others will do. It's their strength, and will, I suspect, be their undoing in a few years time. |
They're the biggest market in the world with the highest standards for their goods, their workers and their citizens as a whole. They don't have to compromise nor should they. It's not their fault that we as a country don't get it - or rather our minds have been poisoned by our media and politicians.
FWIW I'd rather be "run" from Brussels (BTW we're not now and never have been) than Westminster because Brussels is still better at answering to democracy and serving the people. They're not perfect of course but we're so far from getting our own house in order that maybe we should be looking closer to home first. Certainly rather than blaming foreigners for our problems and cutting ourselves adrift to fend for ourselves as a much smaller market. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 21:08 - Nov 29 with 7158 views | LeoMuff |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:17 - Nov 29 by blueislander |
Could you give the reasoning behind your last sentence please? |
It’s appears not... |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 22:08 - Nov 29 with 7124 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 11:11 - Nov 29 by blue_oyster |
Does anyone know what we're getting for our £50bn? |
We're getting the full set of EU laws written into our statute books, an EU army, and a free opt in to any future EU institution, policy or agreement. All that AND a lower number of immigrants to look after.
Brexit in name, Brentrance in reality. |  |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 22:34 - Nov 29 with 7117 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 20:54 - Nov 29 by Darth_Koont |
They're the biggest market in the world with the highest standards for their goods, their workers and their citizens as a whole. They don't have to compromise nor should they. It's not their fault that we as a country don't get it - or rather our minds have been poisoned by our media and politicians.
FWIW I'd rather be "run" from Brussels (BTW we're not now and never have been) than Westminster because Brussels is still better at answering to democracy and serving the people. They're not perfect of course but we're so far from getting our own house in order that maybe we should be looking closer to home first. Certainly rather than blaming foreigners for our problems and cutting ourselves adrift to fend for ourselves as a much smaller market. |
"Brussels is still better at answering to democracy"
As illustrated by their openess on TTIP ?
Read it and weep....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership [Post edited 29 Nov 2017 22:38]
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 22:40 - Nov 29 with 7108 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 17:43 - Nov 29 by Darth_Koont |
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
There's many who don't know their @rse from their elbow too - and certainly have no concept of the world we're now jostling to be a part of. |
This seems to neatly sum up many of your arguments, namely....if you can't beat them, join them. Not exactly inspirational. | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 23:09 - Nov 29 with 7092 views | Darth_Koont |
Well, as an eventual deal would need to be ratified by each of the member states, their parliaments and the European Parliament then what's the problem? | |
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| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 23:14 - Nov 29 with 7085 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well that's some negotiating skills Thicko Davies has. on 22:40 - Nov 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
This seems to neatly sum up many of your arguments, namely....if you can't beat them, join them. Not exactly inspirational. |
Eh?
Try addressing what I write. I've never said that. | |
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