| If the Simms rumours are correct 20:22 - Jul 6 with 14248 views | TalkingBlues |
and we’ve been outbid by Coventry, who came to the party after us (I know we were in pole position and we’re very keen) there’s some questions to be asked about our trading policy. You have to admire not wanting to be held to ransom, but equally if you really want a target, as a Champ club known to have money and are after a striker on the books of a premier league club, you can expect to have stiff competition and a premium price tag.
This is not a good look for the recruitment team (if accurate) or Ashton and makes me a little nervous for further targets of any quality.
Nothing confirmed yet of course, let’s see. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:51 - Jul 7 with 1845 views | BlueBlood90 |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 20:23 - Jul 6 by tractorboy1978 |
They are about to get a £20m windfall. And we don’t know what they are paying yet. The numbers being talked about for Simms weren’t great value for me. |
I wouldn't want us to blow £8m on him whether we can afford it or not. This is a crucial window for us because people know we have money now but it's about showing that we're not going to throw it down the drain by paying over the odds for players who aren't worth it (like Evans did at first). Coventry have the beauty of signing Simms and still having £8m in the bank from selling their prize asset. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:51 - Jul 7 with 1846 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:46 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
I get that, I just think maybe there was an expectation that we'd be able to compete with most clubs in this league outside the PPs (i.e. the next rung down of Coventry, Bristol City, Blackburn, Sunderland).
Guess the difference last year was we had no-one to compete with, we were the only L1 option - fee reported for Simms is £3.5m up front |
I read on here yesturday if we really wanted Simms then steed would make sure we have the money.......
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, Doesn't matter if we have a 40 Billion pot to use, FFP in championship doesn't allow us to use it anyway.
we already lost 12 mill in the first season, it's probably doubled last season. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:55 - Jul 7 with 1811 views | RopeyAdvice |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 22:57 - Jul 6 by jayessess |
We had a thread about Simms a while back and after a long discussion about whether £3.5m was good value, Phil came in and said the club didn't value him at anywhere near that. If Coventry have gone up to £8m, unless more than half of it is add-ons they've been absolutely mugged by Everton.
More broadly, I can't see how we sustain a transfer strategy where we're writing cheques for £5m+ for players with half a good season in the Championship. Seems like a recipe to dig an FFP hole that we can't get out of. |
100% this. one thing our owners and CEO are not going to do is get us in to FFP trouble. We are going to sign players that will improve us and add extra qualities that are financially viable. |  | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:03 - Jul 7 with 1771 views | Horsham |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:51 - Jul 7 by FrimleyBlue |
I read on here yesturday if we really wanted Simms then steed would make sure we have the money.......
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, Doesn't matter if we have a 40 Billion pot to use, FFP in championship doesn't allow us to use it anyway.
we already lost 12 mill in the first season, it's probably doubled last season. |
I very much doubt the loss doubled last year in FFP terms. If the FFP losses last season were double 12m, ie 24m that means our loss this season can only be 3m. Essentially I’m pretty sure that means buying nobody and clearly that isn’t the case. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:08 - Jul 7 with 1760 views | CityBlue |
Ipswich deal on the table was most likely £3m with a £1m promotion clause and 10% sell on.
Coventry deal is most likely £4.5m with a £2.5m promotion clause and similar sell on fees. EFC may have pushed for more but would most likely accept a cash down payment offer as opposed to the normal staged payment method (which sees players never actually paid for over their three year contracts.
The stumbling block for me would be that Simms is now going to be asking for £20k pw and large signing on fee. With the predicted attendances for Cov I do do not believe they will have any other options for future spending if they wish to remain compliant under financial fair play rules.
It wouldn't surprise me to read that talks break down and then it only really leaves us who can make the room for him. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:09 - Jul 7 with 1758 views | the_toff |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:33 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
I think it might be a bit of a wake up call when a player we clearly targetted is going to Coventry - not one of the parachute payment teams who throw money around like it's water.
Coventry, barely had a stadium for last decade, not a pot to P in, had one excellent season and then allows them to spend that sort of money.
I don't think there will be a panic as yet, but clearly finding it difficult to get strikers in (amongst others?) if it sees us going to Austria with Ladapo and Jackson as our 2 number 9s.
Long way to go until start of season, and then end of window, but it's going to be an uncomfortable few weeks for Ashton and the like it seems |
I don't think it's a case of being uncompetitive vs. Cov, but more that we're restrained on what we can do from an FFP side of things. Coventry will probably exit this window with a net transfer spend of about -£10m thanks to Gyokeres. We don't have such an asset. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:16 - Jul 7 with 1745 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:27 - Jul 7 with 1728 views | Horsham |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:09 - Jul 7 by the_toff |
I don't think it's a case of being uncompetitive vs. Cov, but more that we're restrained on what we can do from an FFP side of things. Coventry will probably exit this window with a net transfer spend of about -£10m thanks to Gyokeres. We don't have such an asset. |
Equally unless Coventry get promoted they’ll he wanting to sell Simms for a profit in not many years, and making a profit on Simms bought at 3m is easier than Simms bought at 8m.
Simms will depreciate in value pretty fast unless he does very well in the championship. Time will tell. | | | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:42 - Jul 7 with 1699 views | itfcjoe |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:50 - Jul 7 by SitfcB |
Surely you wouldn’t have wanted us to pay £8mill though? |
They haven't paid £8m, and that's not what I've said either |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 with 1628 views | TalkingBlues |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:33 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
I think it might be a bit of a wake up call when a player we clearly targetted is going to Coventry - not one of the parachute payment teams who throw money around like it's water.
Coventry, barely had a stadium for last decade, not a pot to P in, had one excellent season and then allows them to spend that sort of money.
I don't think there will be a panic as yet, but clearly finding it difficult to get strikers in (amongst others?) if it sees us going to Austria with Ladapo and Jackson as our 2 number 9s.
Long way to go until start of season, and then end of window, but it's going to be an uncomfortable few weeks for Ashton and the like it seems |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:13 - Jul 7 with 1606 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 09:03 - Jul 7 by Horsham |
I very much doubt the loss doubled last year in FFP terms. If the FFP losses last season were double 12m, ie 24m that means our loss this season can only be 3m. Essentially I’m pretty sure that means buying nobody and clearly that isn’t the case. |
Obviously I'm taking a massive guess with it all. But we spent possibly £7-8 mill last season. Now extended contracts of Chaplin. Luongo and KM which can't be cheap.
I believe pitch works etc doesn't come into any costings so that's fine. But we've added extra to the management team too.
Lots of expenditure within the last 12 months. | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:15 - Jul 7 with 1601 views | berkstractorboy |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 by TalkingBlues |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. |
You've really not got a grip on FFP have you.
You have no idea about the clubs finances currently in terms of how much loss we made last year and hence how much headroom we have for losses this season to avoid FFP sanctions. You have no idea who else the club is talking to at the moment and how much they will cost, wages etc.
Trust the people in charge, they haven't got it wrong so far and maybe they get this wrong this time but thats life and they will learn. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:15 - Jul 7 with 1601 views | Bobbychase |
You are either a troll or......not really sure what the alternative is. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:24 - Jul 7 with 1570 views | jayessess |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 by TalkingBlues |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. |
But it simply isn't the case that clubs in this division have habitually paid £5m+ fees for players in recent seasons.
The only clubs to do so last season were the three relegated clubs, Burnley, Watford and Norwich. They can do that because they get parachute payments and because they had proven Premier League players to sell. Burnley's net spend was -£33m, Watford's was -£42m.
This is the reality of the Championship - most of your permitted losses under FFP go on player wages and you have space to spend on big transfers only when you make a big sale. The rest of the time you're trying to find undervalued talent, usually for £2m or less. If the club baulks at £7m fees for players it's because they actually understand the economic situation in the Championship much better than you do. |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:38 - Jul 7 with 1534 views | tractorboy1978 |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 08:33 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
I think it might be a bit of a wake up call when a player we clearly targetted is going to Coventry - not one of the parachute payment teams who throw money around like it's water.
Coventry, barely had a stadium for last decade, not a pot to P in, had one excellent season and then allows them to spend that sort of money.
I don't think there will be a panic as yet, but clearly finding it difficult to get strikers in (amongst others?) if it sees us going to Austria with Ladapo and Jackson as our 2 number 9s.
Long way to go until start of season, and then end of window, but it's going to be an uncomfortable few weeks for Ashton and the like it seems |
There is going to be competition for Surridge too. If Leeds decide they really want him then it is going to be very difficult! Ultimately several clubs are looking for the same strikers this summer. As you say, I think the next few weeks could be uncomfortable and a real slog.
I am surprised how little we've heard re Hirst. [Post edited 7 Jul 2023 10:39]
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:44 - Jul 7 with 1509 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:38 - Jul 7 by tractorboy1978 |
There is going to be competition for Surridge too. If Leeds decide they really want him then it is going to be very difficult! Ultimately several clubs are looking for the same strikers this summer. As you say, I think the next few weeks could be uncomfortable and a real slog.
I am surprised how little we've heard re Hirst. [Post edited 7 Jul 2023 10:39]
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I wouldnt be nervous had we not spent all summer chasing Hirst and ending up with Ahadme. | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:48 - Jul 7 with 1489 views | jayessess |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:38 - Jul 7 by tractorboy1978 |
There is going to be competition for Surridge too. If Leeds decide they really want him then it is going to be very difficult! Ultimately several clubs are looking for the same strikers this summer. As you say, I think the next few weeks could be uncomfortable and a real slog.
I am surprised how little we've heard re Hirst. [Post edited 7 Jul 2023 10:39]
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Given that we've now got our recruitment team in full working order, I'll be disappointed if all our plans revolve around players like Simms and Surridge, who are fairly obvious targets for any Championship club. | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:59 - Jul 7 with 1454 views | tractorboy1978 |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:48 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
Given that we've now got our recruitment team in full working order, I'll be disappointed if all our plans revolve around players like Simms and Surridge, who are fairly obvious targets for any Championship club. |
I am sure there will be less obvious targets but then I am also sure any player that may come here will be getting touted around most of the Championship by agents.
With his academy background, you can see why Simms/Surridge/Hirst would be players McKenna would have identified, know a lot about and be reasonably sure will work stylistically for him. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:01 - Jul 7 with 1447 views | GavTWTD |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:44 - Jul 7 by FrimleyBlue |
I wouldnt be nervous had we not spent all summer chasing Hirst and ending up with Ahadme. |
Yeah I'd hate this season to end up like last |  |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:01 - Jul 7 with 1438 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:24 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
But it simply isn't the case that clubs in this division have habitually paid £5m+ fees for players in recent seasons.
The only clubs to do so last season were the three relegated clubs, Burnley, Watford and Norwich. They can do that because they get parachute payments and because they had proven Premier League players to sell. Burnley's net spend was -£33m, Watford's was -£42m.
This is the reality of the Championship - most of your permitted losses under FFP go on player wages and you have space to spend on big transfers only when you make a big sale. The rest of the time you're trying to find undervalued talent, usually for £2m or less. If the club baulks at £7m fees for players it's because they actually understand the economic situation in the Championship much better than you do. |
Spot on.
Listen to the price of football interview with Ashton. He actually said the same in as many words. We will be one of the richest ownerships in the Championship but it is academic as we like all clubs have to operate within FFP rules.
Surely our MO has to be like you describe. Buying players <£2m and selling them on for double at worst.
The 'wake up call' needed if anything is fans who seemingly are ignoring FFP realities. We will come off 2nd best against all the parachute clubs and any other club who has made a big sale. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:04 - Jul 7 with 1428 views | GavTWTD |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 by TalkingBlues |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. |
We don't know who our primary targets are. Stop stressing over things that probably aren't true. | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:05 - Jul 7 with 1415 views | TalkingBlues |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:24 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
But it simply isn't the case that clubs in this division have habitually paid £5m+ fees for players in recent seasons.
The only clubs to do so last season were the three relegated clubs, Burnley, Watford and Norwich. They can do that because they get parachute payments and because they had proven Premier League players to sell. Burnley's net spend was -£33m, Watford's was -£42m.
This is the reality of the Championship - most of your permitted losses under FFP go on player wages and you have space to spend on big transfers only when you make a big sale. The rest of the time you're trying to find undervalued talent, usually for £2m or less. If the club baulks at £7m fees for players it's because they actually understand the economic situation in the Championship much better than you do. |
The fee will be nowhere near £7 million, more like £3.5 million, with a more favourable sum up front than we offered | |
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| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:10 - Jul 7 with 1370 views | Horsham |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 by TalkingBlues |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. |
In any negotiation you have to have a point you are prepared to walk away. That’s pretty basic and reckless to negotiate without knowing how much you are prepared to pay. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:11 - Jul 7 with 1363 views | the_toff |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 10:09 - Jul 7 by TalkingBlues |
Yes, it’s a harsh wake up call to the reality of the money paid for players at a higher level. The “take it, or leave it, we don’t think he’s worth more than “x” approach simply will not work at this level.
I’m surprised that people are balking at the fees for a player at a premier league club, viewed as having a very bright future (and I still don’t believe the fee is as much as people are claiming) we’ve paid £2 million for players whilst in League 1 and strikers always have a premium attached over other positions. I’m getting a sense that people are struggling to get out of the League 1 mentality, this is a whole new world in the Championship, with fees to match.
Ashton and the recruitment team should learn from this and realise that we are very likely going to have to pay more than our valuation of players, in order to secure their services.
People can say “would you be happy to pay £7 million for “x” player then?” my answer would be, yes, if he’s been identified as a primary target of the manager and anybody else is a step down from what we believe will be successful here, then spend the money, it’s not like we haven’t got any. |
There's generally naff all spent by clubs in the Championship, relatively speaking. Coventry have a big chunk of change from the imminent departure of Gyorkes and the relegated clubs have saleable assets like Madison, and parachute payments.
It's atypical to spend £5m+ on a player at this level, let's not pretend otherwise.
In fact we've already spent £1.5m and that's probably put us in the top 10 by way of expenditure this summer as it stands. | | | |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:16 - Jul 7 with 1332 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If the Simms rumours are correct on 11:01 - Jul 7 by GavTWTD |
Yeah I'd hate this season to end up like last |
Not sure if you know Gav. But Ahadme didn't have much part in that. | |
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