| This is what we wished for. 09:46 - Apr 16 with 3979 views | kpblues |
Myself and others took flak and the doubters said be careful what you wished for.
Well yesterday was exactly what we wished for.
Owners that care and take the club forward. (Gamechanger v 'absent' Evans)
A progressive manager (Mckenna v 'died in the wool' Mccarthy, Lambert)
A team that drives forward and a solid defence (Luongo, Morsy, Woolfie v 'Sideways' Skuse and that other loser Chambers) that keeps going until literally the last minute even if they are winning comfortably.
and above all hope and excitement for the future.
The futures bright. The futures blue and white. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 10:15 - Apr 16 with 2627 views | Pique |
I guess we owe you a huge debt of gratitude for turning the club around. |  | | |
| This is what we wished for. on 10:21 - Apr 16 with 2594 views | itfctilidie |
thank you |  | | |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:26 - Apr 16 with 2455 views | patrickswell |
The club is in a very good place, agreed….but relegation and four League One seasons mean that you have had to go through quite a lot of subsidence and landslide before reaching the moral high ground. |  | | |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:31 - Apr 16 with 2436 views | Steve_M |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:26 - Apr 16 by patrickswell |
The club is in a very good place, agreed….but relegation and four League One seasons mean that you have had to go through quite a lot of subsidence and landslide before reaching the moral high ground. |
Quite and, as good as this season has been, we’re not of League One yet. No deckchairs allowed yet. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 12:40 - Apr 16 with 2409 views | Mullet |
Then you massively damaged the club, set it back years and are incredibly lucky we ended up with Gamechanger, Ashton et al.
It's fascinating that after a 6-0 tonking, a serious move towards promotion and general feel good vibes we've got this weird obsession with McCarthy creeping onto the board and this sort of stuff today.
Almost like taking this long and being in a league we should never have ended up in makes the whole argument look like sh1t eh? |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 13:17 - Apr 16 with 2269 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:26 - Apr 16 by patrickswell |
The club is in a very good place, agreed….but relegation and four League One seasons mean that you have had to go through quite a lot of subsidence and landslide before reaching the moral high ground. |
All part of the plan innit. It was obvious we’d get Hurst, who’d then rip the soul out of us and set us on the path to relegation, leaving Lambert to complete the job and the only perform with mediocrity in L1 only for Cook to then come in and also perform with mediocrity leading the ultimate dissolution of Evans, the takeover by Gamechanger and the appointment of Ashton, sacking of Cook and signing of an unproven rookie manager who was obviously going to be a smash hit and strengthen us in January with the signing of Luongo, Broady and Hirst.
Frankly, this was all bleedingly obvious four years ago. Everyone knew this was exactly how it would pan out.  |  |
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| Quite doubled on 13:32 - Apr 16 with 2211 views | Dyland |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:31 - Apr 16 by Steve_M |
Quite and, as good as this season has been, we’re not of League One yet. No deckchairs allowed yet. |
Also let's not ignore the fact we will be back to square one under Evans IF we are promoted. I'll understand the jeering if we start smashing up the Champ (but won't join in cos it's disingenuous and dissonant) but we are in a proper dog fight for promotion still, so this thread is premature ejaculation to say the least. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 13:35 - Apr 16 with 2189 views | J2BLUE |
| This is what we wished for. on 12:40 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
Then you massively damaged the club, set it back years and are incredibly lucky we ended up with Gamechanger, Ashton et al.
It's fascinating that after a 6-0 tonking, a serious move towards promotion and general feel good vibes we've got this weird obsession with McCarthy creeping onto the board and this sort of stuff today.
Almost like taking this long and being in a league we should never have ended up in makes the whole argument look like sh1t eh? |
I think a good case could be made that it saved the club. Don't get me wrong, I think the OP trying to take credit is daft but I think we have got incredibly lucky with how things turned out and Evans selling up. I don't think there has been any sign GC would have bought us if we had not gone down.
Again, not saying anyone can take any credit but I do think we have got very lucky.
Perhaps i'm talking b0llocks but I often wonder if we needed to hit rock bottom to get change. Give me this over Evans any day. League one was inevitable with him. Crowds were declining. It was never realistic to keep MM. I think we can appreciate the job he did while acknowledging it was definitely time for him to leave. Hurst being a disaster doesn't make the alternative any better IMO.
TL; DR: although no one can take credit for it or claim to have seen this coming it was for the best and we have got lucky. Whether we are promoted this season or not, the future is very bright. |  |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 13:48 - Apr 16 with 2116 views | Dyland |
| This is what we wished for. on 13:35 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
I think a good case could be made that it saved the club. Don't get me wrong, I think the OP trying to take credit is daft but I think we have got incredibly lucky with how things turned out and Evans selling up. I don't think there has been any sign GC would have bought us if we had not gone down.
Again, not saying anyone can take any credit but I do think we have got very lucky.
Perhaps i'm talking b0llocks but I often wonder if we needed to hit rock bottom to get change. Give me this over Evans any day. League one was inevitable with him. Crowds were declining. It was never realistic to keep MM. I think we can appreciate the job he did while acknowledging it was definitely time for him to leave. Hurst being a disaster doesn't make the alternative any better IMO.
TL; DR: although no one can take credit for it or claim to have seen this coming it was for the best and we have got lucky. Whether we are promoted this season or not, the future is very bright. |
The problem with the OP is this idea anyone other than Evans said or warned 'be careful what you wish for'. Which was a stupid comment, from an absent and increasingly uninterested owner. And we didn't/haven't hit "rock bottom".
Sure, without the disastrous Hurst appointment and replacing decent players with inferior ones (I blame Evans for that as much or more then Hurst), maybe we'd still be treading water. I doubt it though, Evans must have been looking to get out before relegation. Who knows innit. Agree with you we've been very lucky with Gamechanger, and that it may not have been as attractive a purchase in the Champ.
And for the record re McCarthy, I couldn't believe he was still here after that infuriating second half at Loftus Rd followed by the televised Lincoln game. But I didn't perhaps realise Evans needed him so badly. MM's biggest black mark in hindsight was keeping schtum and falling out with the fans rather than Evans and walking, but he was getting paid well and protecting his job I guess, and can't blame him for that. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 13:56 - Apr 16 with 2036 views | catch74 |
Tried to do a slightly more even keeled version of this last week.
MM by catch74 8 Apr 2023 12:26Thought I’d not hijack the MM gone thread, so started a new one.
I remember either a Wolves fan posting on the forum (or maybe HarryfromBath asking on theirs) with some feedback. ‘The football won’t be the most pleasing to the eye, but he’ll get you results and you’ll feel like you’ve got your club back’ - or something to that effect. There may have been something prescient about getting bored with the football eventually.
Did we get our club back? - well to an extent (for me at the time) we did. Some great players in, was it Berra, Skuse, McGoldrick, Murphy and Tabb! for frees in one window. Luke Chambers probably the epitome of MM, getting the most out of reasonable players, Chambers gave everything on the pitch and off - the fist pump that little bit of extra connection with the fans. Great performers, core of the team - not the haphazard desperate approach from Jewell (felt like we had had a full team of loanees.)
I mentioned MM when I spoke at my Mum’s funeral in 2013, ‘thank goodness he’d come as we’d always call each other after an Ipswich victory.’ The play off season obviously the pinnacle of his reign.
Hands up, I was happy with Evans, personally liked the fact that we had an owner who’d rescued us, content to let a Manager manage, quietly doing his business in the background, not being pushed around on transfer deals, adding quality loan signings to embellish the team. Those closer to the club (not difficult) than me knew better. I guess my limited attendances at games, witnessing the poor football and flat atmosphere should have given enough of an idea.
I could ramble on about the end of MM, the two Paul’s but the main point is to highlight what is happening now.
Now we really do have our club back, technically gifted players that we own (I’m hoping we push the boat out on Hirst.) Knudsen v Davis, Chambers v Clarke, we own Broadhead v spring boarding Lawrence etc etc.
The crowds, the football , the goals, the stadium improvement done and to come, the new pitch to top off the new training pitches, the love of the players and their love of the fans. A modern, young manager and his entourage - no set piece goals - sorted, not enough goals - sorted, letting in soft goals - sorted, transfer windows - sorted.
More than that it is the openness and honesty of the players, the management, the owners. Clearly laid out plans all executed so far, gives such a positive feel, the knowledge that whatever happens this season, we will grow next season. This versus the blunt, prickly honesty of Mick, hamstrung by a woeful owner.
Apologies, this is all very long winded and clearly not groundbreaking in any way, just so happy for where we are right now. It’s brilliant for the younger fans who’ve been starved of decent football and any real achievement. Kudos to all the die hards who’ve stuck through the last couple of decades too.
We wished for this Mick, probably in our wildest dreams at the time - thanks for your time here and best of luck for the future.
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| This is what we wished for. on 13:57 - Apr 16 with 2034 views | LeoMuff |
I don’t think there were many arguing against game changer, as whatever we wished for could not be much worse than Evans.
MM took us to 12th in the championship in his final season and the next we won a total of 5 games all season, before we dropped into league 1 hell with Lambo. I didn’t have an issue with MM leaving as his time had finished, but more the aggressive hounding out of a guy who was holding us together in the face of ME under supporting everything, which was subsequently proved by Hursts disaster. |  |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:03 - Apr 16 with 1986 views | J2BLUE |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 13:48 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
The problem with the OP is this idea anyone other than Evans said or warned 'be careful what you wish for'. Which was a stupid comment, from an absent and increasingly uninterested owner. And we didn't/haven't hit "rock bottom".
Sure, without the disastrous Hurst appointment and replacing decent players with inferior ones (I blame Evans for that as much or more then Hurst), maybe we'd still be treading water. I doubt it though, Evans must have been looking to get out before relegation. Who knows innit. Agree with you we've been very lucky with Gamechanger, and that it may not have been as attractive a purchase in the Champ.
And for the record re McCarthy, I couldn't believe he was still here after that infuriating second half at Loftus Rd followed by the televised Lincoln game. But I didn't perhaps realise Evans needed him so badly. MM's biggest black mark in hindsight was keeping schtum and falling out with the fans rather than Evans and walking, but he was getting paid well and protecting his job I guess, and can't blame him for that. |
Evans must have been looking to get out before relegation
There's no evidence of this. He even had second thoughts about selling once we had gone down and failed to get promoted under Lambert. I would argue we absolutely did hit rock bottom. Other opinions are available.
Again, no one deserves to claim credit but I think anyone arguing it set us back or arguing that MM could have stayed on at the end of that season is not being honest (I know you haven't said this).
I did find your comment about back to square one under Evans interesting. I get what you mean. Back to when he first came in but I completely disagree. I think we're on the up and this is incredibly exciting. The mere thought that we could still be treading water under Evans is nauseating.
We took a gamble (although I would argue our hand was forced) and it went disastrously but with a big stroke of luck things look better than they have for a long, long time.
Its fascinating how differently some people see it. In hindsight I think it has worked out very well. No one with any sense wanted to go down at the time but it has worked out. We have the opportunity to return to a weak looking Championship with a proper structure in place and serious owners. Hard to argue it hasn't worked out better than we could have imagined IMO, even if we don't complete the job this season. In 5 years we will be a lot higher up the pyramid than this and be competing much better than with Evans and his "competitive budget". [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 14:04]
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| Again, can't say I disagree, in essence on 14:13 - Apr 16 with 1918 views | Dyland |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:03 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Evans must have been looking to get out before relegation
There's no evidence of this. He even had second thoughts about selling once we had gone down and failed to get promoted under Lambert. I would argue we absolutely did hit rock bottom. Other opinions are available.
Again, no one deserves to claim credit but I think anyone arguing it set us back or arguing that MM could have stayed on at the end of that season is not being honest (I know you haven't said this).
I did find your comment about back to square one under Evans interesting. I get what you mean. Back to when he first came in but I completely disagree. I think we're on the up and this is incredibly exciting. The mere thought that we could still be treading water under Evans is nauseating.
We took a gamble (although I would argue our hand was forced) and it went disastrously but with a big stroke of luck things look better than they have for a long, long time.
Its fascinating how differently some people see it. In hindsight I think it has worked out very well. No one with any sense wanted to go down at the time but it has worked out. We have the opportunity to return to a weak looking Championship with a proper structure in place and serious owners. Hard to argue it hasn't worked out better than we could have imagined IMO, even if we don't complete the job this season. In 5 years we will be a lot higher up the pyramid than this and be competing much better than with Evans and his "competitive budget". [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 14:04]
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We're more in accord than not ba.
Still, we're not promoted yet so let's not count our chickens. I know you aren't and I get the point about building even if we're in the third div next season.
"The mere thought that we could still be treading water under Evans is nauseating."
Aye, I was ready to give up my ST ffs. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 14:13 - Apr 16 with 1916 views | Enigma_Blue |
| This is what we wished for. on 13:17 - Apr 16 by Swansea_Blue |
All part of the plan innit. It was obvious we’d get Hurst, who’d then rip the soul out of us and set us on the path to relegation, leaving Lambert to complete the job and the only perform with mediocrity in L1 only for Cook to then come in and also perform with mediocrity leading the ultimate dissolution of Evans, the takeover by Gamechanger and the appointment of Ashton, sacking of Cook and signing of an unproven rookie manager who was obviously going to be a smash hit and strengthen us in January with the signing of Luongo, Broady and Hirst.
Frankly, this was all bleedingly obvious four years ago. Everyone knew this was exactly how it would pan out. |
Look at me I was right all along posts are never a good look. But my main issue with the OP is them referring to Chambers as a loser. This is a player who yes may have been limited in ability but played over 400 games for us, never gave anything less than 100% and clearly loved and had passion for the club. To label him as a loser is highly disrespectful in my opinion. | | | |
| Again, can't say I disagree, in essence on 14:18 - Apr 16 with 1854 views | J2BLUE |
| Again, can't say I disagree, in essence on 14:13 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
We're more in accord than not ba.
Still, we're not promoted yet so let's not count our chickens. I know you aren't and I get the point about building even if we're in the third div next season.
"The mere thought that we could still be treading water under Evans is nauseating."
Aye, I was ready to give up my ST ffs. |
I regret giving mine up after Covid. I had a look the other day but didn't have any left anywhere i'd want to sit on a permanent basis. Bit worried I won't be able to get tickets next season! Might be able to get a restricted view one behind a massive post  | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 14:24 - Apr 16 with 1827 views | Mullet |
| This is what we wished for. on 13:35 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
I think a good case could be made that it saved the club. Don't get me wrong, I think the OP trying to take credit is daft but I think we have got incredibly lucky with how things turned out and Evans selling up. I don't think there has been any sign GC would have bought us if we had not gone down.
Again, not saying anyone can take any credit but I do think we have got very lucky.
Perhaps i'm talking b0llocks but I often wonder if we needed to hit rock bottom to get change. Give me this over Evans any day. League one was inevitable with him. Crowds were declining. It was never realistic to keep MM. I think we can appreciate the job he did while acknowledging it was definitely time for him to leave. Hurst being a disaster doesn't make the alternative any better IMO.
TL; DR: although no one can take credit for it or claim to have seen this coming it was for the best and we have got lucky. Whether we are promoted this season or not, the future is very bright. |
There's every chance we could end up with all sorts of owners, Boehly reminds us of that vs. say a dodgy Middle Eastern regime backed consortium or just whatever the fcuk that guy at Morecambe is doing or Southend, Bury, Wrexham the list goes on. And the variables massively changed.
If years of toxicity, revisionism and terrible football at our lowest ebb is what these people wanted, then we know what some people can do.
Crowing about it now is weird as hell and doesn't even get into the fact it was sitting in 6th having not invested in January that saw them turn on the wrong bloke and then the players in the most stupid way possible. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 14:35 - Apr 16 with 1776 views | J2BLUE |
| This is what we wished for. on 14:24 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
There's every chance we could end up with all sorts of owners, Boehly reminds us of that vs. say a dodgy Middle Eastern regime backed consortium or just whatever the fcuk that guy at Morecambe is doing or Southend, Bury, Wrexham the list goes on. And the variables massively changed.
If years of toxicity, revisionism and terrible football at our lowest ebb is what these people wanted, then we know what some people can do.
Crowing about it now is weird as hell and doesn't even get into the fact it was sitting in 6th having not invested in January that saw them turn on the wrong bloke and then the players in the most stupid way possible. |
Fair points. I still think this is much better than we had though and MM's position was untenable. It would have been toxic if he has stayed. I agree most of it was the fans turning on the wrong man but people were bored of the football and crowds were getting lower. Evans probably would have kept him if he could have done.
Evans tied a hand behind our back for far too long. All i'm really arguing is that we have got very lucky. There will always be a risk with future owners but hopefully when it comes time to sell they will make sure to leave the club in good hands.
I would like to see MM back as a guest at a game at some point. I would like to think he and TC would get a nice reception and at least put any ill feeling to bed. | |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:40 - Apr 16 with 1734 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 13:48 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
The problem with the OP is this idea anyone other than Evans said or warned 'be careful what you wish for'. Which was a stupid comment, from an absent and increasingly uninterested owner. And we didn't/haven't hit "rock bottom".
Sure, without the disastrous Hurst appointment and replacing decent players with inferior ones (I blame Evans for that as much or more then Hurst), maybe we'd still be treading water. I doubt it though, Evans must have been looking to get out before relegation. Who knows innit. Agree with you we've been very lucky with Gamechanger, and that it may not have been as attractive a purchase in the Champ.
And for the record re McCarthy, I couldn't believe he was still here after that infuriating second half at Loftus Rd followed by the televised Lincoln game. But I didn't perhaps realise Evans needed him so badly. MM's biggest black mark in hindsight was keeping schtum and falling out with the fans rather than Evans and walking, but he was getting paid well and protecting his job I guess, and can't blame him for that. |
The bigger problem than Hurst was players. They sacked him, they got their wish, Lambert came in and they still wouldn't perform.
Yes, Hurst's recruitment was fatal but that isn't an excuse for players' lack of fight and desire. They didn't even try. And then in League One they never really put a serious effort to get the club back. Evans didn't care nor did they |  | | |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:42 - Apr 16 with 1718 views | J2BLUE |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:40 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
The bigger problem than Hurst was players. They sacked him, they got their wish, Lambert came in and they still wouldn't perform.
Yes, Hurst's recruitment was fatal but that isn't an excuse for players' lack of fight and desire. They didn't even try. And then in League One they never really put a serious effort to get the club back. Evans didn't care nor did they |
Clearly they did care. It sounds like Chamber and Skuse really cared and tried to hold everything together. | |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:48 - Apr 16 with 1702 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:42 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Clearly they did care. It sounds like Chamber and Skuse really cared and tried to hold everything together. |
No they didn't. I couldn't see an effort on the pitch. All they did was repeating the same cliches and soundbites in their interviews.
Chambers and Skuse tried to hold everything together......dear me ! By how? The team that got relegated was one of the Championship worst ever ones in the history of its level. That mob didn't even try. | | | |
| This is what we wished for. on 14:55 - Apr 16 with 1684 views | Whos_blue |
I think most of us wished for better mate, and I'm not sure I see the need for the dig at Chambers and Skuse. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 14:56 - Apr 16 with 1673 views | Dyland |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:40 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
The bigger problem than Hurst was players. They sacked him, they got their wish, Lambert came in and they still wouldn't perform.
Yes, Hurst's recruitment was fatal but that isn't an excuse for players' lack of fight and desire. They didn't even try. And then in League One they never really put a serious effort to get the club back. Evans didn't care nor did they |
Fair enough if you have inside info to back this up. Like from the staff, and especially Hurst or Doig or indeed Lambert? Otherwise you're seeing things few others are. Apart from the obvious (like winning games) what exactly weren't you seeing from Chambers, Skuse et al? | |
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| "I couldn't see an effort on the pitch." on 14:57 - Apr 16 with 1658 views | Dyland |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:48 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
No they didn't. I couldn't see an effort on the pitch. All they did was repeating the same cliches and soundbites in their interviews.
Chambers and Skuse tried to hold everything together......dear me ! By how? The team that got relegated was one of the Championship worst ever ones in the history of its level. That mob didn't even try. |
I see.
Or rather, I don't.
Whatever. | |
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| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:05 - Apr 16 with 1633 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 14:56 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
Fair enough if you have inside info to back this up. Like from the staff, and especially Hurst or Doig or indeed Lambert? Otherwise you're seeing things few others are. Apart from the obvious (like winning games) what exactly weren't you seeing from Chambers, Skuse et al? |
Oh yeah lets not criticise players then, eh? It was all Hurst, Lambert and Cook fault. Never the players, eh? That is how you are seeing things.
Not only Skuse and Chambers. The number of other players. I wasn't seeing a passion, effort, desire and hunger.
Can I remind you what Cook once said about that mob? He once said: 'the mood in the dressing room is the same whether they win or lose'. Not a rocket science what he said as some players hadn't been performing for a long while.
Can you honestly say you were happy with what you had seen on the pitch for a few years prior to the Demolition Job? | | | |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:05 - Apr 16 with 1631 views | J2BLUE |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:48 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
No they didn't. I couldn't see an effort on the pitch. All they did was repeating the same cliches and soundbites in their interviews.
Chambers and Skuse tried to hold everything together......dear me ! By how? The team that got relegated was one of the Championship worst ever ones in the history of its level. That mob didn't even try. |
People more connected than you have told us of what they were doing to hold things together. The team meetings at their houses etc going on things Hurst didn't bother with. | |
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