| Starmers in for a bumpy time 13:53 - Feb 8 with 4064 views | hype313 |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:54 - Feb 8 with 2111 views | itfcjoe |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:55 - Feb 8 with 2094 views | ElderGrizzly |
People are stupid. Next :)
But in seriousness, the left of Labour have tried to undermine Starmer from day one, so it isn't a surprise. |  | | |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:58 - Feb 8 with 2062 views | Swansea_Blue |
"Sir Keir was preferred by six in 10 Labour supporters" 
When Labour can sort themselves out and unite, then maybe there's some hope. I'm gobsmacked that so many people still support the Tories and Johnson in particular though. It's been a clusterfeck from them for years - how can you look at everything they've been doing and how they've behaved and then think 'yep, these are the ones for me'?
Unless, I suppose, the bulk of your media are telling you how wonderful the Tories are ('saving Christmas' and all that) and that the opposition eat puppies. But is it really that simple (I suspect it might be)? |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:59 - Feb 8 with 2057 views | LankHenners |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:54 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
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I can think of a much bigger reason people aren't very keen on Campbell. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:00 - Feb 8 with 2043 views | homer_123 |
Oh look....Labour shoots itself in foot.....at a time when it should be 'comparatively' easy for any decent opposition to the current government to do well....Labour look like fecking it up. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:00 - Feb 8 with 2040 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:59 - Feb 8 by LankHenners |
I can think of a much bigger reason people aren't very keen on Campbell. |
Shows how far things have slid when he comes across as the voice of reason doesn't it? | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:01 - Feb 8 with 2038 views | footers |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:54 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
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But the issue is that Starmer is now not even making a dent in the polls. So who's to blame for that? He's bumbled along on covid, hardly attacked the government with any sort of urgency and just seems complacent, spending more time with PR suits than being the opposition. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:01 - Feb 8 with 2036 views | J2BLUE |
Not sure that means anything right now. If they phrased the question who would you want to lead during the pandemic if it started in 2022 there might be a different answer. Right now, what's done is done and hopefully brighter days are ahead so people are naturally going to say Johnson as the vaccines are the one thing they've got right. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:05 - Feb 8 with 1993 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:58 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
"Sir Keir was preferred by six in 10 Labour supporters"
When Labour can sort themselves out and unite, then maybe there's some hope. I'm gobsmacked that so many people still support the Tories and Johnson in particular though. It's been a clusterfeck from them for years - how can you look at everything they've been doing and how they've behaved and then think 'yep, these are the ones for me'?
Unless, I suppose, the bulk of your media are telling you how wonderful the Tories are ('saving Christmas' and all that) and that the opposition eat puppies. But is it really that simple (I suspect it might be)? |
Re your last para. It wasn't long ago that people on here were linking headlines from the Mail, Telegraph and other centre right media outlets that were absolutely hammering Johnson and the government over the handling of the pandemic. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:05 - Feb 8 with 1988 views | monytowbray |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 13:55 - Feb 8 by ElderGrizzly |
People are stupid. Next :)
But in seriousness, the left of Labour have tried to undermine Starmer from day one, so it isn't a surprise. |
Projection or a lack of self awareness in this post surely?
As I said before, the New Labour bracket seemed to have forget the left had already largely abandoned them and both Brown/Milliband didn’t win elections.
Could have had the Tories out in 2017 easily but neoliberalism trumps equality and progression. Now we just get to do 2015 over again.
Worst government in living memory during a recession and pandemic, and Starmer can’t even hit 2017’s peak without the media attacks. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 14:09]
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:07 - Feb 8 with 1967 views | monytowbray |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:01 - Feb 8 by footers |
But the issue is that Starmer is now not even making a dent in the polls. So who's to blame for that? He's bumbled along on covid, hardly attacked the government with any sort of urgency and just seems complacent, spending more time with PR suits than being the opposition. |
Yeah but he’s biding his time to strike or something.
Labour has become Qanon. When’s the Storm?! | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:07 - Feb 8 with 1971 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:01 - Feb 8 by footers |
But the issue is that Starmer is now not even making a dent in the polls. So who's to blame for that? He's bumbled along on covid, hardly attacked the government with any sort of urgency and just seems complacent, spending more time with PR suits than being the opposition. |
There's not an election due, so whilst the polls are not moving much it's not that relevant at the moment.
There are huge swathes of the public who either support BJ entirely, or don't want to see the Govt attacked in what is a wartime like effort required - it's a difficult balancing act. It feels as though KS is going to need to wait until the whole thing blows over before going after them, when it is all done and the starkness of our death rate and our economy, plus the vaccine roll out are clear for all to see | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:10 - Feb 8 with 1939 views | monytowbray |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:07 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
There's not an election due, so whilst the polls are not moving much it's not that relevant at the moment.
There are huge swathes of the public who either support BJ entirely, or don't want to see the Govt attacked in what is a wartime like effort required - it's a difficult balancing act. It feels as though KS is going to need to wait until the whole thing blows over before going after them, when it is all done and the starkness of our death rate and our economy, plus the vaccine roll out are clear for all to see |
This is why politics is broken really. The whole thing is based on emotional nationalism over facts.
If we keep voting how we are we may as well just give up on the planet now. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:11 - Feb 8 with 1940 views | MonkeyAlan |
Boris is a good egg really. |  | | |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:11 - Feb 8 with 1937 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:01 - Feb 8 by footers |
But the issue is that Starmer is now not even making a dent in the polls. So who's to blame for that? He's bumbled along on covid, hardly attacked the government with any sort of urgency and just seems complacent, spending more time with PR suits than being the opposition. |
The poor showing by the Lib Dems isn't helping Labour. They should be peeling 3 or 4 points from Tory voters who would also be comfortable voting Lib Dem. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:21 - Feb 8 with 1885 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:05 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Re your last para. It wasn't long ago that people on here were linking headlines from the Mail, Telegraph and other centre right media outlets that were absolutely hammering Johnson and the government over the handling of the pandemic. |
I'm not a regular Mail & Telegraph watcher, but I from what I've seen their criticisms of the Government are few and far between. Although the Mail has certainly become more willing to challenge them since the new editor came in, I'd agree there. It's against a backdrop of years of vilification of the opposition though. But there's also the opposite with the Guardian and Mirror I suppose.
Like I say, I'm not sure whether it is actually that simple, but I think the media does have have a role in shaping opinion (like portraying Johnson as the loveable clown for years, when in reality he's a pretty devious operator). | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:34 - Feb 8 with 1856 views | tractordownsouth |
I think any leadership challenge will depend on Starmer's ability to keep to his policy pledges. I agree with many of them, there are a few I hope he ditches, but in fairness to the Corbynites, that would be reasonable grounds for a leadership challenge and ideally I'd want him to get a mandate for a slightly moderated policy platform. I doubt anyone from the SCG could get enough support to defeat him though - there's a lot of social media noise but as the last leadership election (and General Election) showed, Twitter isn't representative of widespread support.
It's worth remembering a few things about polling though - even before the rally round the flag effect of the pandemic, the Tories had a 20 point lead, so to cut it down to just 4 (even after the Tories' vaccine boost) in less than a year isn't a bad effort. Regardless, polling at this point isn't hugely important anyway - Miliband led by 10 points for most of his leadership but was well beaten in 2015 and never led in the 'Best PM' surveys. It's worrying that the lead for Starmer in those PM polls are narrowing but he's been ahead for 6 months, and before that no Labour leader had had better ratings than a Tory leader since 2007. The fact he polls better than the party suggests he isn't the problem.
There's been mistakes so far but to claim it's over before he's even had the ability to campaign in an election/referendum is premature.*
* Yes I know some moderate MPs did that to Corbyn, I think that was wrong too. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 14:35]
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:41 - Feb 8 with 1810 views | Herbivore |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:21 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not a regular Mail & Telegraph watcher, but I from what I've seen their criticisms of the Government are few and far between. Although the Mail has certainly become more willing to challenge them since the new editor came in, I'd agree there. It's against a backdrop of years of vilification of the opposition though. But there's also the opposite with the Guardian and Mirror I suppose.
Like I say, I'm not sure whether it is actually that simple, but I think the media does have have a role in shaping opinion (like portraying Johnson as the loveable clown for years, when in reality he's a pretty devious operator). |
I'm still spluttering at the Mail and Telegraph being grouped with "other centre right" media. The Times is centre right, the Mail and Telegraph are propaganda sheets. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:42 - Feb 8 with 1803 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:11 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
The poor showing by the Lib Dems isn't helping Labour. They should be peeling 3 or 4 points from Tory voters who would also be comfortable voting Lib Dem. |
Davey's been invisible so far. It's hard for the Lib Dems because they've lost their main purpose since Brexit, and with Corbyn gone there's less centre/centre left economic space to occupy, but he hasn't really done a great deal. As you say, that helps Johnson a lot as 18 of the Lib Dems' 20 target seats are held by Tories.
They should have a big opportunity in the Welsh Assembly elections as the Tories have re-appointed Andrew RT Davies from the hard right , and traditionally the Lib Dems have managed to win votes off moderate Tories in Wales. However, their only MS (Kirsty Williams, Education Secretary) is resigning and there's no gurantee they'll win her seat again at this point so they might be reduced to 1 seat on the regional list.
If I were a Lib Dem, I wouldn't know what to campaign on to be honest. Perhaps they could throw their weight more heavily behind the Excluded UK campaign (Tim Farron has been vocal in his support) but Labour has highlighted that a bit too. If they're not gaining any ground perhaps they'll go nuclear and campaign to rejoin the EU again? At this early stage it's only a fringe position but they'll have 10% of the population behind them at least, which is more than what they currently have. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:50 - Feb 8 with 1755 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:21 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not a regular Mail & Telegraph watcher, but I from what I've seen their criticisms of the Government are few and far between. Although the Mail has certainly become more willing to challenge them since the new editor came in, I'd agree there. It's against a backdrop of years of vilification of the opposition though. But there's also the opposite with the Guardian and Mirror I suppose.
Like I say, I'm not sure whether it is actually that simple, but I think the media does have have a role in shaping opinion (like portraying Johnson as the loveable clown for years, when in reality he's a pretty devious operator). |
Newspaper readership is polarised. Not convinced the papers do anything other than confirm the opinion of their readership. |  |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:51 - Feb 8 with 1753 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:34 - Feb 8 by tractordownsouth |
I think any leadership challenge will depend on Starmer's ability to keep to his policy pledges. I agree with many of them, there are a few I hope he ditches, but in fairness to the Corbynites, that would be reasonable grounds for a leadership challenge and ideally I'd want him to get a mandate for a slightly moderated policy platform. I doubt anyone from the SCG could get enough support to defeat him though - there's a lot of social media noise but as the last leadership election (and General Election) showed, Twitter isn't representative of widespread support.
It's worth remembering a few things about polling though - even before the rally round the flag effect of the pandemic, the Tories had a 20 point lead, so to cut it down to just 4 (even after the Tories' vaccine boost) in less than a year isn't a bad effort. Regardless, polling at this point isn't hugely important anyway - Miliband led by 10 points for most of his leadership but was well beaten in 2015 and never led in the 'Best PM' surveys. It's worrying that the lead for Starmer in those PM polls are narrowing but he's been ahead for 6 months, and before that no Labour leader had had better ratings than a Tory leader since 2007. The fact he polls better than the party suggests he isn't the problem.
There's been mistakes so far but to claim it's over before he's even had the ability to campaign in an election/referendum is premature.*
* Yes I know some moderate MPs did that to Corbyn, I think that was wrong too. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 14:35]
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Anyone who followed Corbyn was going to be up against it from his more passionate supporters
As this proves
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:54 - Feb 8 with 1724 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:41 - Feb 8 by Herbivore |
I'm still spluttering at the Mail and Telegraph being grouped with "other centre right" media. The Times is centre right, the Mail and Telegraph are propaganda sheets. |
Pretty much. The Telegraph has descended into the gutter lately - it's pretty much over as a serious paper. I had high hopes (relative!) for the Mail once Greig took over, but they've not changed anywhere near as much as I thought they would. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:54 - Feb 8 with 1724 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:51 - Feb 8 by ElderGrizzly |
Anyone who followed Corbyn was going to be up against it from his more passionate supporters
As this proves
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Rachael Swindon conveniently forgetting that Labour lost a combined total of 400 councillors in the first two local elections under Jezza. A lot of these supporters seem delighted at the possibility of the Tories doing well, which is a bit bizzare.
Suprised Swindon's still on Twitter anyhow, thought she got kicked off a few months back. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:57 - Feb 8 with 1704 views | footers |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:54 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Pretty much. The Telegraph has descended into the gutter lately - it's pretty much over as a serious paper. I had high hopes (relative!) for the Mail once Greig took over, but they've not changed anywhere near as much as I thought they would. |
It's a real shame what's happened to the Telegraph. Used to be a serious , decent publication and now it's like a comic book for boris fans.
A lot of it comes down to the internet, imo. Very few newspapers got the model right (I think the Graun is one of the only ones who did, despite heavy financial losses) and now they're just producing clickbait online and in their physical copy to maintain market share.
The quality of journalism has really tanked ever since. | |
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| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:59 - Feb 8 with 1686 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmers in for a bumpy time on 14:57 - Feb 8 by footers |
It's a real shame what's happened to the Telegraph. Used to be a serious , decent publication and now it's like a comic book for boris fans.
A lot of it comes down to the internet, imo. Very few newspapers got the model right (I think the Graun is one of the only ones who did, despite heavy financial losses) and now they're just producing clickbait online and in their physical copy to maintain market share.
The quality of journalism has really tanked ever since. |
I think you could credibly argue that The Telegraph is further to the right than The Mail these days. | |
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