| Sensible politics question 09:16 - Nov 3 with 1421 views | allezlesbleus |
I don't normally comment on the threads about Tories / Labour, because the older I get, the more disillusioned I have become with UK politics (and more recently, worldwide politics).
My question is why a 3rd party cannot compete with the 2 main parties, for any length of time? I know the Lib Dems and UKIP have had some success recently, but neither for any length of time. The Conservatives are in such a mess, it is beyond belief that Labour are in an even worse state, that they haven't capitalised on this ages ago.
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| Sensible politics question on 09:28 - Nov 3 with 1392 views | Dubtractor |
I suspect a lot if down to media coverage.
Loads of coverage/support for the main 2 parties, not much for the others. And over a very long time. |  |
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| Sensible politics question on 09:32 - Nov 3 with 1385 views | DanTheMan |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
Basically because of this. Our voting system creates this.
As an example of this, if I was to vote for just my preferred candidate / party in the upcoming elections, there is absolutely no way they would get in. Which means my vote is essentially wasted. However in a system like single transferable vote my vote has a much higher chance of actually counting towards something.
Some more info here on how this plays out in practice here:
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/electoral-reform/
After Brexit, I'd love for this to actually become an important talking point, but I don't see that actually happening. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 9:38]
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| Sensible politics question on 09:34 - Nov 3 with 1373 views | brogansnose |
I put some of it down to FPTP. If you think that a third party has no real chance of getting a seat in your constituency where there is an overwhelming majority for a single party then there is little point as your voice will not be heard. I dare say that a lot of Kippers, Brexit party supproters will defer to the Tories and Labour / LD's will flip too. |  | | |
| Sensible politics question on 09:48 - Nov 3 with 1341 views | BloomBlue |
Money and history. To build a party which can constantly challenge in every seat in the Country (well at least the vast majority) takes a lot of money and many people vote Lab or Cons because they've always voted that way.
Also when you look at the two main parties most of their policies cover everything. So when a new party starts it's effectively offering the same ideas but with different people which is why when new parties start they focus on one item, for example Brexit party purely for leaving the EU and no other policies.
The Greens were the same but have gradually developed more policies over the years
LibDems have had some success over the years but if you look at a lot of their policies they are the same as Labs or Cons. |  | | |
| Sensible politics question on 10:14 - Nov 3 with 1304 views | Guthrum |
Because there's two sides to a question, not normally three. Most time-periods have a single major issue which dominates political debate, be that free trade, Irish home rule, colonialism, capitalism v socialism, Brexit, with opinion - and therefore parliamentary groupings - crystalising into "for" and "against" camps.
New parties tend to arise when the existing edifices are shaken by a new issue cutting across their previous allegiances, splitting them apart into separate factions which then defect or break away.
The new party, if it thrives, then ends up replacing one of the pre-existing blocs, as when the Liberals were replaced as the radical party by Labour over the first three decades of the 20th century. Lingering tribal loyalty to the old parties tends to make this a slow process.
With the current situation, it's not impossible that the LibDems, taking a strong line on Brexit, could replace Labour as the progressive opposition to a Faragist-dominated new Conservative party. But it will take more than one election. |  |
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| Sensible politics question on 10:42 - Nov 3 with 1259 views | J2BLUE |
| Sensible politics question on 09:32 - Nov 3 by DanTheMan |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
Basically because of this. Our voting system creates this.
As an example of this, if I was to vote for just my preferred candidate / party in the upcoming elections, there is absolutely no way they would get in. Which means my vote is essentially wasted. However in a system like single transferable vote my vote has a much higher chance of actually counting towards something.
Some more info here on how this plays out in practice here:
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/electoral-reform/
After Brexit, I'd love for this to actually become an important talking point, but I don't see that actually happening. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 9:38]
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This, as well as the rather odd phenomenon of people attaching themselves to a party like it's a football team.
There were plenty on here before the Miliband/Corbyn eras who supported their party like a football team back in the good old days when they were both centre and could tell which party an MP from from by the colour tie/scarf they were wearing. |  |
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| Sensible politics question on 11:38 - Nov 3 with 1220 views | NthQldITFC |
Is it that family history and emotion-based allegiances, and egotistical unwillingness to change one's position in the face of changing situations and continual evidence of dishonestly and duplicity from all the established parties, [inhale] overwhelm any enthusiasm a modern, western population has to choose a system of government and economics which will act logically and humbly in the interests of A. the planet, and B. the humans? |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Sensible politics question on 17:12 - Nov 3 with 1104 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sensible politics question on 09:32 - Nov 3 by DanTheMan |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
Basically because of this. Our voting system creates this.
As an example of this, if I was to vote for just my preferred candidate / party in the upcoming elections, there is absolutely no way they would get in. Which means my vote is essentially wasted. However in a system like single transferable vote my vote has a much higher chance of actually counting towards something.
Some more info here on how this plays out in practice here:
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/electoral-reform/
After Brexit, I'd love for this to actually become an important talking point, but I don't see that actually happening. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 9:38]
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The alternative works to the advantage of the parties that do not have power. That is why it won't happen.
The closest to it was when LibDem went into coalition on the condition of a referendum but the Tories then offered something different to what LibDem wanted so no one campaigned for it.
If a minor party was able to get a major one desperate enough to offer a proper referendum on it, we might at least get some discussion of it. |  |
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