| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? 09:26 - Oct 22 with 14683 views | monytowbray |
At first having a good job was nice, disposable income after years of cr@p jobs. But 8 years of it, watching incompetent people with capital get rich off building teams of skilled people and then flogging it to an early retirement, realising you're just a pawn in a system that rewards privilege more than hard work, dealing with people who think life is nothing but the numbers on an ATM screen and define self worth/motivation. It's really starting to drain me on the inside. The stress and internal office politics on top of that also.
I've always judged life by how happy I am rather than what's in my pocket. I'm doing better financially than ever and honestly I don't think I've ever felt so jaded, miserable and defeated by life. Like I'm trotting along on a train where I don't fit in and heading somewhere I'm really MEH about getting there.
Am I alone in thinking this? I feel like a lot of my close friends align but a lot of them are hippies and punks who are fairly fulfilled in live living the minimalist way with a socialist outlook and rejecting social norms. But is this something the wider world of "normies" also suffer from? |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 20:18 - Oct 22 with 1778 views | Oxford_Blue |
Compared to what? |  | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 20:19 - Oct 22 with 1773 views | SpruceMoose |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 20:18 - Oct 22 by Oxford_Blue |
Compared to what? |
It doesn't have to be compared to anything in order to be found depressing. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 20:43 - Oct 22 with 1751 views | WD19 |
Yeah, life is a giant Ponzi scheme and we are all screwed. You can be slightly less screwed if screwing other people is your thing. Yay. |  | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 13:09 - Oct 23 with 1624 views | Leaky |
All in all quite a depressing thread. I became a Plumbing & Heating apprentice at the age 15. Got laid off when I was 21, I decided to start up on my own. Worked on various building sites made good money through the 70's & 80's plus made a lot of friends . I looked at people commuting to London & thought I'm a bloody idiot I could make far money working in the "smoke". Now at retirement age I still work but pick & choose what jobs I take on & when I wish to do them. I think all those years ago I made the correct choice |  | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 14:04 - Oct 23 with 1560 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:23 - Oct 22 by BrixtonBlue |
'Interesting' is definitely a word you could use to describe Brixton McDonalds. I've often thought working on the counter in there at 4am must be the most horrendous job I can imagine. |
You know it's a sorry state of affairs when you need bouncers on the door of McDonalds. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:05 - Oct 23 with 1534 views | Herbivore |
I'm a legend. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:16]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:05 - Oct 23 with 1534 views | Herbivore |
I realised early on in my adult life that I couldn't be happy generating more wealth for wealthy people so chose a career in the helping professions. It never paid tremendously well and it was stressful but I never dreaded going to work and I felt like I had a sense of purpose and self-worth. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:06]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:15 - Oct 23 with 1529 views | Argyle_blue |
What a great post and no you are not alone. I think a lot of people are feeling the same.
I think, at least in wealthy states, the usefulness of capitalism in dragging lots of people out of poverty is one that is largely confined to history. When I think of how my grandparents lived (in pre world war 2 London) we are all doing well. All our basic needs are met for the vast majority of us, something that could not be taken for granted not so long ago. The modern problem seems to be one of equality and distribution of wealth, not just within countries but also globally. I think that and climate change are the current concerns of many but these are at odds with capitalist principles. That said I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater - there are some areas of life in which capitalism works. The problem is that the market metaphor has been over applied - for example to education. Theres a great book called What Money Can't Buy by Sandel that goes into this in more detail. Basically it argues that we've become slaves to a metaphor that we used to use when it was useful us. Sadly there are some committed capitalists motivated by greed who will continue to try to accumulate wealth. Many form part of the governments of the rich countries of the world!
The relationships between wealth and subjective happiness is not a straight line, in other words it is not true that the richer you are the happier you are. It flattens out pretty quickly once wealth that allows basic needs to be met and a few luxuries such as holidays are accounted for.
Having said all of that I'm enormously optimistic for coming generations who seem to see things differently and who soon will be voting if they are not already. Thats where my hope lies and I think its well placed. |  | | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:23 - Oct 23 with 1513 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:15 - Oct 23 by Argyle_blue |
What a great post and no you are not alone. I think a lot of people are feeling the same.
I think, at least in wealthy states, the usefulness of capitalism in dragging lots of people out of poverty is one that is largely confined to history. When I think of how my grandparents lived (in pre world war 2 London) we are all doing well. All our basic needs are met for the vast majority of us, something that could not be taken for granted not so long ago. The modern problem seems to be one of equality and distribution of wealth, not just within countries but also globally. I think that and climate change are the current concerns of many but these are at odds with capitalist principles. That said I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater - there are some areas of life in which capitalism works. The problem is that the market metaphor has been over applied - for example to education. Theres a great book called What Money Can't Buy by Sandel that goes into this in more detail. Basically it argues that we've become slaves to a metaphor that we used to use when it was useful us. Sadly there are some committed capitalists motivated by greed who will continue to try to accumulate wealth. Many form part of the governments of the rich countries of the world!
The relationships between wealth and subjective happiness is not a straight line, in other words it is not true that the richer you are the happier you are. It flattens out pretty quickly once wealth that allows basic needs to be met and a few luxuries such as holidays are accounted for.
Having said all of that I'm enormously optimistic for coming generations who seem to see things differently and who soon will be voting if they are not already. Thats where my hope lies and I think its well placed. |
Good post.
The relationship between wealth and subjective happiness may be a straight line, but inverse! Some of the happiest people I've ever met had literally nothing bar the very basic (rudimentary shelters, enough but simple food, heat and that's about it). Holidays would be well beyond their reach. That only works where there's greater equality though - I imagine someone in this country with nothing but the essential basics to sustain life has a misearble existence. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:23 - Oct 23 with 1513 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:15 - Oct 23 by Argyle_blue |
What a great post and no you are not alone. I think a lot of people are feeling the same.
I think, at least in wealthy states, the usefulness of capitalism in dragging lots of people out of poverty is one that is largely confined to history. When I think of how my grandparents lived (in pre world war 2 London) we are all doing well. All our basic needs are met for the vast majority of us, something that could not be taken for granted not so long ago. The modern problem seems to be one of equality and distribution of wealth, not just within countries but also globally. I think that and climate change are the current concerns of many but these are at odds with capitalist principles. That said I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater - there are some areas of life in which capitalism works. The problem is that the market metaphor has been over applied - for example to education. Theres a great book called What Money Can't Buy by Sandel that goes into this in more detail. Basically it argues that we've become slaves to a metaphor that we used to use when it was useful us. Sadly there are some committed capitalists motivated by greed who will continue to try to accumulate wealth. Many form part of the governments of the rich countries of the world!
The relationships between wealth and subjective happiness is not a straight line, in other words it is not true that the richer you are the happier you are. It flattens out pretty quickly once wealth that allows basic needs to be met and a few luxuries such as holidays are accounted for.
Having said all of that I'm enormously optimistic for coming generations who seem to see things differently and who soon will be voting if they are not already. Thats where my hope lies and I think its well placed. |
Odd you mention the flatlining thing about happiness, saw this mentioned in a documentary lastnight and it really is true. I'm hardly rolling in it and I think I hit peak wealth happiness about 3 pay rises ago. The rest have literally just been GREAT, I CAN SPEND MORE MONEY but I feel like I have nothing to really show for it other than ordering more takeaway and buying more crap I don't really need.
Anyone watched Minimalism on Netflix? by monytowbray 23 Oct 2019 15:53Was quite interesting I just so happened to stumble upon it lastnight after my rant about capitalism and being down about where I fit in.
Very good watch and felt like it had a lot of answers on how to escape it all, alas some went to more extremes than others.
The bloke who was basically loaded and was remote working from various hotels whilst travelling the world whilst technically homeless and with 51 items to his name was a bit "rich hippy" w@nky, dare I say most of it was as all these people came from having money at some point and changing their ways.
They weren't wrong though. I feel like when I first started climbing the career ladder it bought short term joy but now I've hit that plateau where no advances really do much to change my life or bring me joy. I'd rather have my spare time back if I'm honest. Deffo also thinking about sacking off loads of clothes and furniture I don't need.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:31]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:30 - Oct 23 with 1495 views | J2BLUE |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:23 - Oct 23 by monytowbray |
Odd you mention the flatlining thing about happiness, saw this mentioned in a documentary lastnight and it really is true. I'm hardly rolling in it and I think I hit peak wealth happiness about 3 pay rises ago. The rest have literally just been GREAT, I CAN SPEND MORE MONEY but I feel like I have nothing to really show for it other than ordering more takeaway and buying more crap I don't really need.
Anyone watched Minimalism on Netflix? by monytowbray 23 Oct 2019 15:53Was quite interesting I just so happened to stumble upon it lastnight after my rant about capitalism and being down about where I fit in.
Very good watch and felt like it had a lot of answers on how to escape it all, alas some went to more extremes than others.
The bloke who was basically loaded and was remote working from various hotels whilst travelling the world whilst technically homeless and with 51 items to his name was a bit "rich hippy" w@nky, dare I say most of it was as all these people came from having money at some point and changing their ways.
They weren't wrong though. I feel like when I first started climbing the career ladder it bought short term joy but now I've hit that plateau where no advances really do much to change my life or bring me joy. I'd rather have my spare time back if I'm honest. Deffo also thinking about sacking off loads of clothes and furniture I don't need.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:31]
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Have you thought of investing the money. Perhaps it can't help you now but if you saved a good chunk each money and achieved a bit of growth on that money it might eventually allow you to retire earlier or drop your hours. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:35 - Oct 23 with 1478 views | footers |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:30 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
Have you thought of investing the money. Perhaps it can't help you now but if you saved a good chunk each money and achieved a bit of growth on that money it might eventually allow you to retire earlier or drop your hours. |
That would probably be a less depressing aspect of capitalism. Unless you lost it all, of course. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:35 - Oct 23 with 1479 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:30 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
Have you thought of investing the money. Perhaps it can't help you now but if you saved a good chunk each money and achieved a bit of growth on that money it might eventually allow you to retire earlier or drop your hours. |
I'm not even fussed about retiring early to be honest. I'd rather work for the rest of my life but have the time to relax and do stuff I enjoy in between. And I don't mean the odd holiday where you spend 6 months exhausting yourself with no time off for a fortnight off in the summer that flashes by as soon as you start to relax. I mean having more freedom to choose how and when I work. If I wanna get up at 5am and smash out some work then do nothing all day and smash more work out at 8pm then so be it. If I wanna work 14 hours one day for a day off then so be it. If I want to spontaneously say "f*ck it I'll do it tomorrow" I can. If I have little work to do and I've given value to my work/client I can leave and go do something else productive with my time (right now I'm sat at work looking for stuff to do as I'm ahead of myself and god it's frustratingly dull).
That's the kind of freedom I could get going freelance. Yeah there would be other stresses and it would still be hard work, but it would be on my terms.
Of course saving is never a bad thing and it goes without saying I'd still be doing that. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:37]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:42 - Oct 23 with 1463 views | shady |
Discover Less is More.
Filling one’s inner peace with material goods is literally soul destroying.
Am reminded of a Dickens quote surmised as:
Income £1, expenditure 19/11 …happiness
Income £1, expenditure £1 and 1p…misery. |  | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:46 - Oct 23 with 1457 views | giant_stow |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:35 - Oct 23 by monytowbray |
I'm not even fussed about retiring early to be honest. I'd rather work for the rest of my life but have the time to relax and do stuff I enjoy in between. And I don't mean the odd holiday where you spend 6 months exhausting yourself with no time off for a fortnight off in the summer that flashes by as soon as you start to relax. I mean having more freedom to choose how and when I work. If I wanna get up at 5am and smash out some work then do nothing all day and smash more work out at 8pm then so be it. If I wanna work 14 hours one day for a day off then so be it. If I want to spontaneously say "f*ck it I'll do it tomorrow" I can. If I have little work to do and I've given value to my work/client I can leave and go do something else productive with my time (right now I'm sat at work looking for stuff to do as I'm ahead of myself and god it's frustratingly dull).
That's the kind of freedom I could get going freelance. Yeah there would be other stresses and it would still be hard work, but it would be on my terms.
Of course saving is never a bad thing and it goes without saying I'd still be doing that. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:37]
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I'm a freelancer and the freedom to work when I like is easily the best thing about it. For instance, its half term right now, so tomorrow I'll head up to the Land of Milk and Honey with boy and not-quite-wife and spend the next four days part working, part bumming around the countryside helping with the littleun.
The worse thing is having to manage the cash and asking for cash from punters.
Oh and the other wose thing is it can get a bit loney if you work at home too much.
I think you're an SEO bod innit? If so, you really are mobile, so go for it! |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:55 - Oct 23 with 1444 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:46 - Oct 23 by giant_stow |
I'm a freelancer and the freedom to work when I like is easily the best thing about it. For instance, its half term right now, so tomorrow I'll head up to the Land of Milk and Honey with boy and not-quite-wife and spend the next four days part working, part bumming around the countryside helping with the littleun.
The worse thing is having to manage the cash and asking for cash from punters.
Oh and the other wose thing is it can get a bit loney if you work at home too much.
I think you're an SEO bod innit? If so, you really are mobile, so go for it! |
Cheers man. I am in SEO yeah, so if I can get the work all I need is a laptop and a wifi connection to work from anywhere.
There's a few feelers I've started putting out to see what kind of money I could make starting out and go from there. Although I also sussed I could easily go to some old clients from my agency days and charge considerably less for the same work (which is basically what they were paying for when I was there but added cost of project and account managers). If I could land one of them whilst offering to half their current SEO expenses I'd be laughing to the bank getting more money than I do now and still have 2/3 of the month free for more work/freedom. The more I think about it the more I wonder why I've not just gone for it. I mean, if your old SEO contact you liked and trusted came to you and said "you can have me back for half the cost" that's a no brainer for the business IMO.
I think cashflow is the one I worry about most TBF as you mentioned, I'd be living hand to mouth for at least 6 months starting out and all it would take is one decent sized client forgetting to pay me or ditching my services to leave me in the sh1t.
My current employer contract is one year long maternity cover and I'm 6 months in, so it's likely going to be after Xmas I give it serious thought. With Christmas coming up I need the stability of a pay cheque. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:58]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:11 - Oct 23 with 1421 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 16:55 - Oct 23 by monytowbray |
Cheers man. I am in SEO yeah, so if I can get the work all I need is a laptop and a wifi connection to work from anywhere.
There's a few feelers I've started putting out to see what kind of money I could make starting out and go from there. Although I also sussed I could easily go to some old clients from my agency days and charge considerably less for the same work (which is basically what they were paying for when I was there but added cost of project and account managers). If I could land one of them whilst offering to half their current SEO expenses I'd be laughing to the bank getting more money than I do now and still have 2/3 of the month free for more work/freedom. The more I think about it the more I wonder why I've not just gone for it. I mean, if your old SEO contact you liked and trusted came to you and said "you can have me back for half the cost" that's a no brainer for the business IMO.
I think cashflow is the one I worry about most TBF as you mentioned, I'd be living hand to mouth for at least 6 months starting out and all it would take is one decent sized client forgetting to pay me or ditching my services to leave me in the sh1t.
My current employer contract is one year long maternity cover and I'm 6 months in, so it's likely going to be after Xmas I give it serious thought. With Christmas coming up I need the stability of a pay cheque. [Post edited 23 Oct 2019 16:58]
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I'm freelance. The money's very good - except today as I'm off with flu or food poisoning (not sure which)... which means I earn nothing today. That's the downside, although thankfully I'm not ill that often. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:12 - Oct 23 with 1417 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:11 - Oct 23 by BrixtonBlue |
I'm freelance. The money's very good - except today as I'm off with flu or food poisoning (not sure which)... which means I earn nothing today. That's the downside, although thankfully I'm not ill that often. |
Hope you feel better soon.
Do the new IR35 rules from April affect your industry?
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:20 - Oct 23 with 1394 views | footers |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:12 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
Hope you feel better soon.
Do the new IR35 rules from April affect your industry?
SB |
They do but not sure how long your contract would have to be to be considered permanent. Altho when I was freelancing a bit last year I did discover a lot of accountants who said they could get around it even on a permanent contract. Naughty. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:21 - Oct 23 with 1389 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:20 - Oct 23 by footers |
They do but not sure how long your contract would have to be to be considered permanent. Altho when I was freelancing a bit last year I did discover a lot of accountants who said they could get around it even on a permanent contract. Naughty. |
That's all changed though hasn't it? As of April the rules are much stricter and the employer is on the hook for tax and NI rather than the contractor.
Previously you are of course right, it was easy enough to be outside of IR35.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:24 - Oct 23 with 1379 views | footers |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:21 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
That's all changed though hasn't it? As of April the rules are much stricter and the employer is on the hook for tax and NI rather than the contractor.
Previously you are of course right, it was easy enough to be outside of IR35.
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Ah, I hadn't realised they'd tightened it up this year. Probably a good decision, tho.
Got out just in time! | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:24 - Oct 23 with 1379 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:12 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
Hope you feel better soon.
Do the new IR35 rules from April affect your industry?
SB |
I don't even know what that is. I have an umbrella company that works all the tax etc.out. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:26 - Oct 23 with 1376 views | footers |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:24 - Oct 23 by BrixtonBlue |
I don't even know what that is. I have an umbrella company that works all the tax etc.out. |
Ooof. I'd seriously consider looking at that, Dollers. Umbrella companies take a hefty wedge for what is a simple enough process if you either do it yourself or get a competent, affordable accountant to do it on your behalf. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:31 - Oct 23 with 1359 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 17:24 - Oct 23 by footers |
Ah, I hadn't realised they'd tightened it up this year. Probably a good decision, tho.
Got out just in time! |
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/april-2020-changes-to-off-payroll-working-for-client
It was in the last budget. It's causing quite a stir in some industries.
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