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Been away for the weekend in a Haven park up near Yarmouth, and as my boy got a bike for his birthday we elected to across to the town yesterday so he could ride it around as more space there etc
It's sad how run down the whole town is there, admittedly going to a seaside town out of season on a fairly miserable day is never going to show it in a flattering light, it is just totally run down from top to bottom.
Everything is dated, everything is cheap and tacky and everyone seems down on their luck, admittedly again this was a Monday so most of those who do work would be at work.
These are Brexit towns, but putting that aside, is there anything that can be done to turn these sorts of town's around, I'd guess they are just too far gone.
Regardless, I had an enjoyable day, I do like a seaside town, and my over arching emotion was sadness at a town which used to be booming back in the summers
DB has been in decline since 2007 but it's addressing it's issues now (although it may already be too late). They have closed some of their businesses recently.
Conversely, US banks are doing well as they took their medicine 10 years ago, restructured, forced larger banks to take over smaller ones and then increased regulation. The increased capital ratios in the US and Europe should help offset any overnight bankruptcies but you never know.
SB
[Post edited 8 Oct 2019 16:48]
Trust me when I say I hope you are right and I am wrong on this one, I really do as if I'm proven right it will be scant consolation for me to be able to say I told you so as we will all be in a world of pain. Goldman Sachs share price is down about 28% from the 2018 high of 275, currently sitting at around 197. They are up overall this year though. That said, they are down from a high of about 220 over the last four weeks to 197 so the most recent trend is down rather than up. The Goldman Sachs chart looks much better than Deutsche Bank but I wouldn't say it looks fantastic either. But in relative terms to the sick man of Europe that is DB, I'd agree it does look in far better shape. But the derivative exposure of all the US banks is off the scale too and one day there will be a day of reckoning for them all I fear.
DB has been in decline since 2007 but it's addressing it's issues now (although it may already be too late). They have closed some of their businesses recently.
Conversely, US banks are doing well as they took their medicine 10 years ago, restructured, forced larger banks to take over smaller ones and then increased regulation. The increased capital ratios in the US and Europe should help offset any overnight bankruptcies but you never know.
SB
[Post edited 8 Oct 2019 16:48]
CDOs are still being sold and traded (under a different name) by US banks...couple that rising housing/ rent/ land costs in the US - guess where they are heading.
Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
Trust me when I say I hope you are right and I am wrong on this one, I really do as if I'm proven right it will be scant consolation for me to be able to say I told you so as we will all be in a world of pain. Goldman Sachs share price is down about 28% from the 2018 high of 275, currently sitting at around 197. They are up overall this year though. That said, they are down from a high of about 220 over the last four weeks to 197 so the most recent trend is down rather than up. The Goldman Sachs chart looks much better than Deutsche Bank but I wouldn't say it looks fantastic either. But in relative terms to the sick man of Europe that is DB, I'd agree it does look in far better shape. But the derivative exposure of all the US banks is off the scale too and one day there will be a day of reckoning for them all I fear.
If these US derivative contract figures are to be believed see here: (and I actually think the scale of the problem is a lot larger now as these numbers are from 2011) then the infographics which scale the numbers in picture format (at the following link) are scary to say the least. http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html
Killed by the cheap package holiday which is now being killed by cheap flights and hotels booked separately.
Without a USP it's hard to see how somewhere like Yarmouth could win back large amounts of tourists. However, I do think there is hope for places like Yarmouth - there is scope for building and maintenance of turbines which are reasonably skilled jobs which could bring money into the community. When money comes, infrastructure tends to follow.
SB
Reinvigorate the UK seaside towns easily by stopping cheap flights, the airline industry is killing the planet, ration flights, there is really very little that is absolutely necessary with regard to flying.
CDOs are still being sold and traded (under a different name) by US banks...couple that rising housing/ rent/ land costs in the US - guess where they are heading.
I'm not sure CDO's are being traded, certainly not in the same way they were before. I don't know for that conclusively though and would need to see the specifics.
Technically a CDO isn't actually a risky product for the seller, it all comes down to how it's actually distributed.
You think thats bad, you should see Pakefield Butlins now.
It's criminal what has happened to that place. Vicious circle though IMO. They can't invest heavily in the camp because their target market probably aren't willing to pay more than they pay now. It would be a big gamble.
Apparently it's a lot, lot better when it's adult only these days and the school holidays tend to attract large groups of chavs.
These towns just become the butt of the jokes opposed to an area that needs help - basically one seaside town gets picked as the posh one in the area and the left are rest to rot.
Transport links are terrible, almost deliberately so, and there just aren't good jobs there, and any monies made aren't reinvested in he town - you need a philanthropic multi-millionaire from these towns who wants to see them back on the map and is willing to invest properly in them.
Successive Governments have left these towns to rot whilst blaming anyone deemed to be an 'other', local people suffer as they always do
We have a business man called Peter Colby in Lowestoft, he's in a constant battle with Waveney district and now East Suffolk Council. He set out a plan on an industrial site to get a load of start up businesses going, the council ignored him and approved a new housing development instead. Loads of new houses and no jobs, schools or doctors?
The record shop in the opening sequence is Golden Discs in Queens Road Southend (probably not there any more). I saw that sequence being filmed during my lunch hour while I was working as a loss adjustor just up the road.
It's criminal what has happened to that place. Vicious circle though IMO. They can't invest heavily in the camp because their target market probably aren't willing to pay more than they pay now. It would be a big gamble.
Apparently it's a lot, lot better when it's adult only these days and the school holidays tend to attract large groups of chavs.
Nothing beats the holiday parks and slider bingo at Jaywick
We have a business man called Peter Colby in Lowestoft, he's in a constant battle with Waveney district and now East Suffolk Council. He set out a plan on an industrial site to get a load of start up businesses going, the council ignored him and approved a new housing development instead. Loads of new houses and no jobs, schools or doctors?
Seems to be the blueprint for most places.I have attended many planning meetings and all the frustrated politicians that are Local councillors spout build the houses and the infrastructure will follow what a load of rubbish.
Seems to be the blueprint for most places.I have attended many planning meetings and all the frustrated politicians that are Local councillors spout build the houses and the infrastructure will follow what a load of rubbish.
Seems as there are quotas to fill for housing development at the moment they are almost always going to fill those quotas before the infrastructure, which is stupid, but there we go- targets and goals
We have a business man called Peter Colby in Lowestoft, he's in a constant battle with Waveney district and now East Suffolk Council. He set out a plan on an industrial site to get a load of start up businesses going, the council ignored him and approved a new housing development instead. Loads of new houses and no jobs, schools or doctors?
And no second crossing either, buh!
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
We have a business man called Peter Colby in Lowestoft, he's in a constant battle with Waveney district and now East Suffolk Council. He set out a plan on an industrial site to get a load of start up businesses going, the council ignored him and approved a new housing development instead. Loads of new houses and no jobs, schools or doctors?
They are building a ridiculous amount of houses in Bradwell (village just outside Yarmouth) and on the outskirts of Gorleston. Emerald Park where Gorleston FC play also looks set to be demolished for houses as well, see here: https://www.edp24.co.uk/edp-property/plans-to-demolish-emerald-park-revealed-1-5 There are plans for another 600 houses to go into Bradwell soon and there are absolutely loads of new builds being built already. https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/exhibition-over-plans-to-build-600-n As a result, it's getting very hard to get a doctor or a dental appointment, a lot of people are even queuing up outside the the doctor surgery each morning nearby to me to try and get an appointment for the day, as the phone lines are jammed first thing. The same is true for the local dentist. I know this is true as my elderly father who has a serious heart problem has had to do it more than once for both this year. The infrastructure (i.e. roads, jobs, schools, doctors, dentists, hospitals etc.) just isn't in place for the huge growth in houses. One time my son broke his collarbone playing football in goal on the Saturday and when we took him to A&E they were very busy and said they didn't think it needed an X-ray. When he went to school on the Monday the school called us concerned that he still appeared uncomfortable so we took him back to the hospital that morning asking for a second opinion and this time they did X-ray him and it showed he had broken his collarbone. There's a big homeless problem in Great Yarmouth as well, worse than I've ever known it previously. Occasionally I'd be asked for change when I went into town a few years ago, now I am asked from somebody nearly every time I go to the town centre. A lot of them are sleeping in the church yard between Sainsburys and Northgate Street in Great Yarmouth. I spoke to a homeless guy the other day and he said he'd been beaten up walking between Yarmouth and Gorleston (you could see he'd been set upon as he was black and blue) by some youths which just made my blood boil. The infrastructure is cracking at the seams. It seems like they put the Haven Bridge up for a canoe which brings the whole town to a standstill for I don't know how long! When the traffic gets bad in the summer holidays with all the holiday makers I can walk to Yarmouth, which is 3 miles away, much quicker than I could drive. The town clearly needs a third crossing. The outer harbour hasn't been the silver bullet like a lot of people had hoped, although I was never convinced with Felixstowe not that far away. And we've been waiting for the Acle Straight to be dualled (somebody I used to teach had their daughter killed on that road - it's a real accident blackspot) for what seems an eternity. Every new MP promises to push to get it dualled but they all fail to deliver. Drugs problems seem to be getting totally out of hand in Yarmouth with national coverage about county lines in the town. Some of the schools are having to provide food banks for hungry children. You can see why some people just give up hope and turn to drink and drugs. When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it. Back in 2013 Yarmouth council got one of the worst settlements in the country, see here: https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/publicity-stunt-claim-over-great-yar It was cut by about 19% I believe, we had Mr Eric Pickles to thank for that as far as I could gather and our MP Brandon Lewis was accused by Labour councillors at the time of being complicit (in a morally wrong sense). I know there are many other towns up and down the country that feel forgotten and severely damaged by austerity, so I'm sure Yarmouth isn't alone, but all I can do is tell of the experience I see first hand living here and I have to say it's not a pretty sight.
One of my previous landlords actually asked me about investing in property in Lowestoft, just so he could stuff the places full of DSS tenants and rake in government cash.
With this sort of thing going on, the only way is down, as you rightly say.
Unfortunately, at the minute, Lowestoft is pretty much the answer to: "What happens if you stick ~60k people in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do?" It's also living up to the jokey moniker of "the town so sh1t even the fish fooked off".
Industry is still being ripped from the town as we speak. In fact, my mum, who works for a well-known travel company, is in fear of her job, thanks to the American firm which has basically asset-stripped the company.
In Lowestoft especially, there's anger at the EU for taking away the fishing jobs. But as we all know, it wasn't the EU at all, but successive governments signing over quotas to foreign companies. People are rightfully angry, but unfortunately they're just angry at the wrong people.
Ere Footers, a couple of mates went to that First Light festival in Lowie over the summer, and had a lully old evening/ morning.
Afterwards I heard that the council had allowed for 3k people turning up, and 30k actually did. Offies all sold out of booze, BnBs all booked up etc etc....
Was this actually the case? Cos next year's festival will inevitably be even bigger, if so. Just the sort of thing the town needs, I'd suggest.
Ere Footers, a couple of mates went to that First Light festival in Lowie over the summer, and had a lully old evening/ morning.
Afterwards I heard that the council had allowed for 3k people turning up, and 30k actually did. Offies all sold out of booze, BnBs all booked up etc etc....
Was this actually the case? Cos next year's festival will inevitably be even bigger, if so. Just the sort of thing the town needs, I'd suggest.
Unfortunately I am holed up in Londonistan, buh, so cannot offer a reliable report... however, that would be great if so!
The loss of the air show was also a big blow to the town. But iirc people just weren't putting enough in the buckets to keep it sustainable...
Perhaps some more informed Lowestoftians can help us out, buh.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
They are building a ridiculous amount of houses in Bradwell (village just outside Yarmouth) and on the outskirts of Gorleston. Emerald Park where Gorleston FC play also looks set to be demolished for houses as well, see here: https://www.edp24.co.uk/edp-property/plans-to-demolish-emerald-park-revealed-1-5 There are plans for another 600 houses to go into Bradwell soon and there are absolutely loads of new builds being built already. https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/exhibition-over-plans-to-build-600-n As a result, it's getting very hard to get a doctor or a dental appointment, a lot of people are even queuing up outside the the doctor surgery each morning nearby to me to try and get an appointment for the day, as the phone lines are jammed first thing. The same is true for the local dentist. I know this is true as my elderly father who has a serious heart problem has had to do it more than once for both this year. The infrastructure (i.e. roads, jobs, schools, doctors, dentists, hospitals etc.) just isn't in place for the huge growth in houses. One time my son broke his collarbone playing football in goal on the Saturday and when we took him to A&E they were very busy and said they didn't think it needed an X-ray. When he went to school on the Monday the school called us concerned that he still appeared uncomfortable so we took him back to the hospital that morning asking for a second opinion and this time they did X-ray him and it showed he had broken his collarbone. There's a big homeless problem in Great Yarmouth as well, worse than I've ever known it previously. Occasionally I'd be asked for change when I went into town a few years ago, now I am asked from somebody nearly every time I go to the town centre. A lot of them are sleeping in the church yard between Sainsburys and Northgate Street in Great Yarmouth. I spoke to a homeless guy the other day and he said he'd been beaten up walking between Yarmouth and Gorleston (you could see he'd been set upon as he was black and blue) by some youths which just made my blood boil. The infrastructure is cracking at the seams. It seems like they put the Haven Bridge up for a canoe which brings the whole town to a standstill for I don't know how long! When the traffic gets bad in the summer holidays with all the holiday makers I can walk to Yarmouth, which is 3 miles away, much quicker than I could drive. The town clearly needs a third crossing. The outer harbour hasn't been the silver bullet like a lot of people had hoped, although I was never convinced with Felixstowe not that far away. And we've been waiting for the Acle Straight to be dualled (somebody I used to teach had their daughter killed on that road - it's a real accident blackspot) for what seems an eternity. Every new MP promises to push to get it dualled but they all fail to deliver. Drugs problems seem to be getting totally out of hand in Yarmouth with national coverage about county lines in the town. Some of the schools are having to provide food banks for hungry children. You can see why some people just give up hope and turn to drink and drugs. When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it. Back in 2013 Yarmouth council got one of the worst settlements in the country, see here: https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/publicity-stunt-claim-over-great-yar It was cut by about 19% I believe, we had Mr Eric Pickles to thank for that as far as I could gather and our MP Brandon Lewis was accused by Labour councillors at the time of being complicit (in a morally wrong sense). I know there are many other towns up and down the country that feel forgotten and severely damaged by austerity, so I'm sure Yarmouth isn't alone, but all I can do is tell of the experience I see first hand living here and I have to say it's not a pretty sight.
[Post edited 9 Oct 2019 11:27]
Thank you for sharing this. Surely as a society we can do better than this.
Am heading back this weekend to visit my Dad in Gorleston. Will also be running the 10 k race on Yarmouth front. Agree with most of the comments in the thread. Great day out with kids in summer and some nice beaches. Pretty bleak in Winter though. Very fond childhood memories of Joyland, pleasure beach, burgh castle, somerleyton hall, fritton lake, pleasurewood hills, Gorleston beach, and of course Quasar above the mint. Politically is in a bad but understandable place. Majority of Dad's local Facebook mates were very pro Farage and co ahead of the referendum. Turned out to be an accurate predictor for the town and the country. I head back there 5 or 6 times a year and still love the place. Gorleston more than Yarmouth tbf. Gorleston park run is great too. Also a big fan of Boxing Day local derby match at Emerald park or the Wellesley.
We have a business man called Peter Colby in Lowestoft, he's in a constant battle with Waveney district and now East Suffolk Council. He set out a plan on an industrial site to get a load of start up businesses going, the council ignored him and approved a new housing development instead. Loads of new houses and no jobs, schools or doctors?
Makes you appreciate the borough council in Ipswich, who bought the former sugarbeet factory site to preserve it for industrial use after a developer repeatedly tried to get planning permission for houses on the site.
Of course, at the time the local Tories were moaning about it being a waste of taxpayers money.
its not austerity that did the place in, its been in decline since the mid 80s, GY and Lowestoft were heavily employment based as fishing ports, not just the fishermen going out to see on boats, but all the support industries that supported them fixed the boats, the nets and so on, and landed the fish on shore and packaged and sent it round the country, or even smoked it, there was an smoke house in GY that used to make kippers that got sold in Harrods, it closed down,lack of fish, lack of trade, and all of that employment went and there was precious little to replace it in terms of the off shore energy production, then lots of the farm work disappeared, the sugar place closed, lots of the food factories
there was a tour I remember doing of I think it was the Birds Eye fish factory in Lowestoft, the size of ice blocks this place produced to mash up to cover the fish were as big as caravans to start with, it was really heavy industry & machinery lots of people needed to keep the place going, we got to do the tour round the place because it was only working part time by then, it shut soon after and those jobs were all lost, as were all the other jobs
now the nearest place offering work there is Norwich, and if you work in Norwich there are places nearer that are nicer and just as cheap to live in. so why stay in GY/Lowestoft, its miserable in the winter as is much of north norfolk frankly, and its not much better in the summer there now, so all that are left are those who cant afford to leave, but who have probably not much more than minimum wage jobs to look for, you cant sustain towns of that size on that and one or two months of tourist trade boost.
I used to go on holiday there as a kid, the beaches were nice, the pleasure beach was fun,the circus entertaining, even the north sea didnt seem that bad and GY had a great indoor pool that I always thought was better than crown pools, but Ive been there a few times lately and its not a place Id choose to visit anymore, or even wanted to stay in for longer than the time I was there.
These towns just become the butt of the jokes opposed to an area that needs help - basically one seaside town gets picked as the posh one in the area and the left are rest to rot.
Transport links are terrible, almost deliberately so, and there just aren't good jobs there, and any monies made aren't reinvested in he town - you need a philanthropic multi-millionaire from these towns who wants to see them back on the map and is willing to invest properly in them.
Successive Governments have left these towns to rot whilst blaming anyone deemed to be an 'other', local people suffer as they always do
Is there not cause to apply for an EU grant if a place is run down but still has potential?
I actually don't know how these things work, but can see (harking back to Homer's post), how locals may want to see some input and understandably so.
You would assume if it's in decline there will be areas that qualify for aid.
Is there not cause to apply for an EU grant if a place is run down but still has potential?
I actually don't know how these things work, but can see (harking back to Homer's post), how locals may want to see some input and understandably so.
You would assume if it's in decline there will be areas that qualify for aid.
Yarmouth has had a fair amount of help due to its deprived status. Sometimes it hasn't been wisely spent though which is very unfortunate, see here as an example: https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/environment/questions-to-be-asked-over-great-yarmou That funding came from inteGREAT regeneration which is a social enterprise which tries to provide regeneration.
Am heading back this weekend to visit my Dad in Gorleston. Will also be running the 10 k race on Yarmouth front. Agree with most of the comments in the thread. Great day out with kids in summer and some nice beaches. Pretty bleak in Winter though. Very fond childhood memories of Joyland, pleasure beach, burgh castle, somerleyton hall, fritton lake, pleasurewood hills, Gorleston beach, and of course Quasar above the mint. Politically is in a bad but understandable place. Majority of Dad's local Facebook mates were very pro Farage and co ahead of the referendum. Turned out to be an accurate predictor for the town and the country. I head back there 5 or 6 times a year and still love the place. Gorleston more than Yarmouth tbf. Gorleston park run is great too. Also a big fan of Boxing Day local derby match at Emerald park or the Wellesley.
Same here, I've got plenty of fond childhood memories. It's not all doom and gloom. It's also not too far away from lovely spots like Burgh Castle. Burgh Castle is a nice place to walk the dogs. The only slight downer on Burgh Castle is my mother-in-law had her window smashed in the main car park there in recent times and her phone was stolen from inside the car. Gorleston beach is beautiful on a lovely sunny day. I also enjoy watching Gorleston vs Yarmouth play but sadly they are in different leagues this season as Yarmouth got relegated last season. That said, the way Gorleston are going they could be in the same leagues again come next season. Gorleston were recently thumped 1-7 at home by Woodbridge!
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