| Children's behaviour in schools 08:09 - Sep 15 with 1333 views | DJR |
As well as lockdown, I wonder if this goes some way to explaining reports of increasing bad behaviour in schools. I might add that my daughter has just started her first job in a primary school, so has some experience of a lack of obedience, respect and concentration which just wouldn't have happened when I was growing up.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/sep/15/britons-place-low-value-on-
Interestingly, when my children were growing up, we drummed into them the idea that they had to be well behaved in school and respectful to their teachers, but it is not clear from her experience that many parents do that these days, even in a school with few children with any sort of real issues.
Admittedly, she is just starting out, and there is the long summer holiday to take into account which will have got the children out of the habit of being in school, but even the experienced teacher in the same class year (year 1) has admitted that she will find it pretty unbearable if the behaviour she has experienced so far carries on for the rest of the year.
Fortunately, things are improving a little bit, but it is an odd state of affairs if children that young in a relatively prosperous area take such an effort to control. [Post edited 15 Sep 2023 17:58]
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:24 - Sep 15 with 1262 views | itfcjoe |
It is something fairly obvious now - when I was young almost any adult was treated as a parent in the regard of what they said goes in any situation. When you see kids at clubs, or at schools, or in general life now that isn't the case.
I'd still say I treat my kids similar to how I was - but think a lot of time it is just parents taking the path of least resistance, which we all do from time to time |  |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:52 - Sep 15 with 1184 views | Dubtractor |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:24 - Sep 15 by itfcjoe |
It is something fairly obvious now - when I was young almost any adult was treated as a parent in the regard of what they said goes in any situation. When you see kids at clubs, or at schools, or in general life now that isn't the case.
I'd still say I treat my kids similar to how I was - but think a lot of time it is just parents taking the path of least resistance, which we all do from time to time |
Mrs Dub teaches in what would probably be considered one of Ipswich's more challenging primary schools, and the stories she shares about behaviour and (so called) parenting are pretty eye opening.
Clearly lots pf reasons for how we have got to this point, but I'd say that there are a generation of kids who are going to have real problems as they get older. Clearly that's not all kids, but it is a large number. [Post edited 15 Sep 2023 8:56]
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:58 - Sep 15 with 1169 views | giant_stow |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:24 - Sep 15 by itfcjoe |
It is something fairly obvious now - when I was young almost any adult was treated as a parent in the regard of what they said goes in any situation. When you see kids at clubs, or at schools, or in general life now that isn't the case.
I'd still say I treat my kids similar to how I was - but think a lot of time it is just parents taking the path of least resistance, which we all do from time to time |
The other day at a combined kids / adults party, some mother came and told my boy off to rhe point that he felt he had to hide in the bathroom. I haven't caught up with her yet - difficult thing, as I don't know her, but I only mention it as the every adult as a parent thing isn't always right. She obviously felt free to steam in, without knowing that her kids are playing her, while teasing my boy about his gammy eyesight.
Back to the op, the behaviour in his school sounds atrocious, both in terms of how they don't respect teachers and how often they miss classes (even kids from 'good' homes. I blame the pandemic - it taught a lot of people that school was optional. |  |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:00 - Sep 15 with 1164 views | itfc_bucks |
Mrs Bucks has taught at the full range of primary schools, from officially the worst in the area, right the way up to a primary with outstanding results in one of the most affluent villages in the county.
Behaviour is poor across the range, but she's been physically assaulted with a chair twice, routinely verbally abused and the parents are little better.
Another issue is the constant churn and change across the curriculum and the "whim of the week" nonsense from DfE and Ofsted.
Any wonder that most teachers bomb out in the first 5 years? |  | | |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:01 - Sep 15 with 1153 views | BloomBlue |
Poor parenting is a British disease which is gradually getting worse. I see it as British people wanting to move to a nanny state where the government does every thing for you, including control your children.
A few weeks ago a news story about children attendance at school is getting worse and the number of people blaming the gov for it was unreal. Thankfully a few people phoning into the show correctly said no, if children aren't attending school the only people to blame is the parents.
Whenever I see stories like this it reminds me of an old neighbour. Now I'm going back 15+ years but it was a story on breakfast TV where parents wanted the Gov to force in law the reduction of the price of football shirts. They argued they're are too expensive and they couldn't afford them for their kids. My neighbour said he was shouting at the TV about 'just tell the kids no, they cannot have the shirt'. As he said when he was growing up in St Lucia if they couldn't afford something his parents would say no. Well finally the TV interviewer asked the question why don't you just say no? The reply was it's not fair to say no to my children. My neighbour said he knew then the UK was on a slippery down hill road, if a parent cannot say no to a football shirt how will you eventually teach your kid they cannot inappropriately touch a girl they fancy, how will you teach them to respect a teacher if they don't want to go into that teachers class.
Yes footballer shirt to abusing a teach is a big jump, but as he said 'if you cannot say no, it will reach the stage where the kid rules' |  | | |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:02 - Sep 15 with 1149 views | giant_stow |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:00 - Sep 15 by itfc_bucks |
Mrs Bucks has taught at the full range of primary schools, from officially the worst in the area, right the way up to a primary with outstanding results in one of the most affluent villages in the county.
Behaviour is poor across the range, but she's been physically assaulted with a chair twice, routinely verbally abused and the parents are little better.
Another issue is the constant churn and change across the curriculum and the "whim of the week" nonsense from DfE and Ofsted.
Any wonder that most teachers bomb out in the first 5 years? |
Hit with a chair twice? Blimey that's outrageous. | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:05 - Sep 15 with 1133 views | Zx1988 |
Parents certainly don't help things by seeming to have adopted the attitude that they are the only ones entitled to even be mildly critical(?) of their little angels.
I remember getting a thick ear off a parent whilst I was working in retail during my degree, for having the temerity to politely ask their child to 'please stop knocking the shoes off the display'.
At the risk of sounding like my grandfather, had I done that as a child I'd have been in trouble twice. Once from the member of staff, and then again from my parents for having been told off by the member of staff. | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:05 - Sep 15 with 1130 views | Dubtractor |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:02 - Sep 15 by giant_stow |
Hit with a chair twice? Blimey that's outrageous. |
My Mrs has had similar - including some repeat offenders for physical violence. | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:07 - Sep 15 with 1122 views | itfc_bucks |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:02 - Sep 15 by giant_stow |
Hit with a chair twice? Blimey that's outrageous. |
Genuinely so. First one was in her first term as a teacher in the worst school locally.
Welcome to the job!
In "fairness" there are a huge number of behavioural issues in that school, where those kids ought probably not to be in a mainstream school, however, owing to the weight that parental choice has coupled with the lack of investment in CAMHS, there are huge numbers of kids with "difficulties" in mainstream education. | | | |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:09 - Sep 15 with 1117 views | giant_stow |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:05 - Sep 15 by Dubtractor |
My Mrs has had similar - including some repeat offenders for physical violence. |
I'm genuinely shocked. Sorry for any teachers dealing with this nonsense. | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:11 - Sep 15 with 1107 views | giant_stow |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:07 - Sep 15 by itfc_bucks |
Genuinely so. First one was in her first term as a teacher in the worst school locally.
Welcome to the job!
In "fairness" there are a huge number of behavioural issues in that school, where those kids ought probably not to be in a mainstream school, however, owing to the weight that parental choice has coupled with the lack of investment in CAMHS, there are huge numbers of kids with "difficulties" in mainstream education. |
Very sad state of affairs. I guess it's reflects a poorly society as a whole. | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:24 - Sep 15 with 1078 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:07 - Sep 15 by itfc_bucks |
Genuinely so. First one was in her first term as a teacher in the worst school locally.
Welcome to the job!
In "fairness" there are a huge number of behavioural issues in that school, where those kids ought probably not to be in a mainstream school, however, owing to the weight that parental choice has coupled with the lack of investment in CAMHS, there are huge numbers of kids with "difficulties" in mainstream education. |
I've got a friend who is a primary school teacher and she said her classes have become almost unmanageable over the past few years due to the number of kids with 'difficulties' (however you define that) - this pre-dates COVID but has been exacerbated by it since. You can cope with a couple of challenging kids in a class but more than that and the whole dynamic changes and even the typically best behaved kids start changing their behaviour. | | | |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:52 - Sep 15 with 1004 views | itfc_bucks |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:24 - Sep 15 by tractorboy1978 |
I've got a friend who is a primary school teacher and she said her classes have become almost unmanageable over the past few years due to the number of kids with 'difficulties' (however you define that) - this pre-dates COVID but has been exacerbated by it since. You can cope with a couple of challenging kids in a class but more than that and the whole dynamic changes and even the typically best behaved kids start changing their behaviour. |
Honestly, there are so many challenges, and classroom behaviour is a symptom of so many of the others:
*Poor & entitled parenting
*Underfunded CAMHS
*Underfunded/non-existent "specialist" schools for kids with additional learning needs.
*Insufficient SEN provision in mainstream school.
*Academy system placing additional bureaucracy on schools, not reducing it.
*Academy system reducing "Buying power" of education sector.
* lower per capita funding of schools than ever before.
*Previous teacher pay awards being unfunded, meaning the award had to come from other staff/facilities/equipment
*Poor quality of estates
*Insufficient quality of wrap-around care.
I could go on, but I've only got two more Mental Health therapy sessions of my own before the NHS deems me to have been "cured".
The system is broken and it's being broken on the back of good people like Mrs Bucks, who refuse to give in. But there will come a time when she has to, and I really don't think, after 15 years service to education, we're that far away now. | | | |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:54 - Sep 15 with 993 views | itfcjoe |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 08:52 - Sep 15 by Dubtractor |
Mrs Dub teaches in what would probably be considered one of Ipswich's more challenging primary schools, and the stories she shares about behaviour and (so called) parenting are pretty eye opening.
Clearly lots pf reasons for how we have got to this point, but I'd say that there are a generation of kids who are going to have real problems as they get older. Clearly that's not all kids, but it is a large number. [Post edited 15 Sep 2023 8:56]
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I think there is a problem that there is an expectation that nurseries, and then schools, 'should be doing more'.....if kids are misbehaving at home then they link the behaviour to the setting they are in and think "why are they doing this, they must have learned it there" without looking at themselves.
I think there is also an issue with both ends of society, with selfishness in parents - people told that they are their own first priority, that they need to do this to manage their own mental health, that they need to eat this diet, that they need to do this exercise, that they need to live their best life, when the reality is that their life should be their children and they need to fit around that as best they can | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:10 - Sep 15 with 933 views | Swansea_Blue |
I think there's a poverty angle to all this. Not to use that as an excuse, as there would have been plenty of poor kids back 'in the old days' who were well behaved and subservient (through beating them probably, but there we are).
Those that cause trouble at our kids' school tend to be from poorer catchments. It's Welsh medium, drawing from a large catchment from some of the poorest places in Wales to some very exclusive areas, so is a right melting pot. Similarly, the kids in our swimming club all seem very respectful, well behaved, etc. - again that's a largely middle class upwards environment as it's expensive. Although there are some kids from poorer backgrounds who are well-behaved too. The formal training environment in the club could also be providing a structure that overrides any effects of particular social demographic groupings. Standards of behaviour are drilled into them with no room for argue (so maybe I'm just proving the argument for more discipline with that example).
In short, feck knows :). There is a seemingly worsening problem with behaviour though. However, there's absolutely nothing wrong with installing principles of hard work, independence and imagination. It probably leads to fewer messed up adults than those that come from a background where obedience is the main concern. |  |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:15 - Sep 15 with 916 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
At University level, we're really not seeing behaviours slipping, (I wouldn't expect it at that level), but since Covid, engagement in their studies has fallen off a cliff.
It seems to have affected the years that had their A-Level studies disrupted, either in one or in both years. Our new third year lost both of their A-Level years and I can tell you don't seem to give the slightest sh1t about their grades, interacting with each other, or with gaining feedback from us as lecturers to improve their grades.
I'm sad to say, they're a year I do not relish teaching again, and I've never had that happen before. |  |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:16 - Sep 15 with 910 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 09:02 - Sep 15 by giant_stow |
Hit with a chair twice? Blimey that's outrageous. |
Shocking isn't it. They should have least followed up with a third swipe. What are they teaching them in schols today? 
(I think Bucks has countered my theory about poverty, although there does seem to be a strong correlation in my kids' school. Hard to reach any conclusions from anecdotal examples though). | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:18 - Sep 15 with 902 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:15 - Sep 15 by Cheltenham_Blue |
At University level, we're really not seeing behaviours slipping, (I wouldn't expect it at that level), but since Covid, engagement in their studies has fallen off a cliff.
It seems to have affected the years that had their A-Level studies disrupted, either in one or in both years. Our new third year lost both of their A-Level years and I can tell you don't seem to give the slightest sh1t about their grades, interacting with each other, or with gaining feedback from us as lecturers to improve their grades.
I'm sad to say, they're a year I do not relish teaching again, and I've never had that happen before. |
Interesting. My Mrs hasn't talked much about her experience of that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's common though - I know my motivation has dropped off a cliff since Covid too! | |
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| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:26 - Sep 15 with 873 views | itfc_bucks |
| Children's behaviour in schools on 10:16 - Sep 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Shocking isn't it. They should have least followed up with a third swipe. What are they teaching them in schols today?
(I think Bucks has countered my theory about poverty, although there does seem to be a strong correlation in my kids' school. Hard to reach any conclusions from anecdotal examples though). |
I'd say there is a correlation between relative levels of affluence and the nature of the poor behaviour.
Poverty begets violence, aggression and MH.
Affluence manifests in more nuanced poor behaviour and is, in my own opinion, actually harder to engage. | | | |
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