| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:18 - May 30 with 2044 views | Herbivore |
Embarrassing. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:19 - May 30 with 2040 views | StokieBlue |
It's all very worrying. The Tories are rubbish and in open rebellion.
Labour are in hidden rebellion and JC seems to be deluded:
"a second referendum after negotiating a softer Brexit deal with Brussels."
The EU have said so many times now they aren't going to change the deal yet Labour continually say they would be able to get a better deal based on nothing much.
Sigh.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:19 - May 30 with 2038 views | SpruceMoose |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:18 - May 30 by Herbivore |
Embarrassing. |
https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-president-jean-claude-juncke
What's that you say repeatedly Jean-Claude? No renegotiation? Totes awks Corbs. [Post edited 30 May 2019 15:20]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:27 - May 30 with 2008 views | WD19 |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:18 - May 30 by Herbivore |
Embarrassing. |
That's a bloody understatement! ....but still a hardcore group of fanboys and girls continue to defend the man. Utterly astonishing. |  | | |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:33 - May 30 with 1990 views | homer_123 |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:19 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It's all very worrying. The Tories are rubbish and in open rebellion.
Labour are in hidden rebellion and JC seems to be deluded:
"a second referendum after negotiating a softer Brexit deal with Brussels."
The EU have said so many times now they aren't going to change the deal yet Labour continually say they would be able to get a better deal based on nothing much.
Sigh.
SB |
Even more worrying is that there is no real alternative. The Lib Dems should be cleaning up - nowhere to be seen...to the point that Nige is sweeping up votes and voters.
Jeez. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:37 - May 30 with 1974 views | Oldsmoker |
Brian: I'm not the Messiah!
Arthur: I say you are, Lord, and I should know, I've followed a few!
Crowd: Hail, Messiah!
Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen?! I'm not the Messiah, do you understand?! Honestly!
Woman: Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!
Brian: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me?! All right, I am the Messiah!
Crowd: He is! He is the Messiah! |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:39 - May 30 with 1969 views | Swansea_Blue |
Just when you think he may be coming to a slightly clearer position he goes and muddles things again. He can't help himself, or maybe he's getting his strings pulled by Milne and the others? Who knows. Very odd but utterly predictable.
I wonder if they might not make more political capital out of all this in the long term if they sat back and let the Tory's own Brexit, rather than play the similar games of trying to appease all people all of the time. Just let the Tories break apart over it. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:39 - May 30 with 1972 views | SpruceMoose |
No downvote from Grimboy yet. Tricky spot I guess, doesn't want to be seen downvoting any criticism of Corbyn... | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:43 - May 30 with 1962 views | Oldsmoker |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:39 - May 30 by SpruceMoose |
No downvote from Grimboy yet. Tricky spot I guess, doesn't want to be seen downvoting any criticism of Corbyn... |
He's up. First post just after noon.
I think he's on another time-zone to the rest of us - or is that planet? | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:45 - May 30 with 1955 views | SpruceMoose |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:43 - May 30 by Oldsmoker |
He's up. First post just after noon.
I think he's on another time-zone to the rest of us - or is that planet? |
Well I'm five hours behind you lot. He seems be up late your time, probably a few cans deep judging by the posts. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:48 - May 30 with 1951 views | Darth_Koont |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:19 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It's all very worrying. The Tories are rubbish and in open rebellion.
Labour are in hidden rebellion and JC seems to be deluded:
"a second referendum after negotiating a softer Brexit deal with Brussels."
The EU have said so many times now they aren't going to change the deal yet Labour continually say they would be able to get a better deal based on nothing much.
Sigh.
SB |
I disagree totally with Labour's position on the EU after the referendum (and especially the personal anti-EU view of Corbyn).
But Juncker might just be talking about the current government that's been a shambles from the start, both in negotiations with the EU and getting their ducks in a row domestically.
I think that hardline stance could change with someone else across the table — if as seems likely the Labour party are shifting with glacial speed towards a soft/remain position. Being amenable might bring us all closer to putting this all behind us and actually moving on with the underlying issues in Europe and at home. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:00 - May 30 with 1902 views | homer_123 |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:48 - May 30 by Darth_Koont |
I disagree totally with Labour's position on the EU after the referendum (and especially the personal anti-EU view of Corbyn).
But Juncker might just be talking about the current government that's been a shambles from the start, both in negotiations with the EU and getting their ducks in a row domestically.
I think that hardline stance could change with someone else across the table — if as seems likely the Labour party are shifting with glacial speed towards a soft/remain position. Being amenable might bring us all closer to putting this all behind us and actually moving on with the underlying issues in Europe and at home. |
Admit it DK...you are straw clutching aren't you! ;) | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:02 - May 30 with 1897 views | Oldsmoker |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:48 - May 30 by Darth_Koont |
I disagree totally with Labour's position on the EU after the referendum (and especially the personal anti-EU view of Corbyn).
But Juncker might just be talking about the current government that's been a shambles from the start, both in negotiations with the EU and getting their ducks in a row domestically.
I think that hardline stance could change with someone else across the table — if as seems likely the Labour party are shifting with glacial speed towards a soft/remain position. Being amenable might bring us all closer to putting this all behind us and actually moving on with the underlying issues in Europe and at home. |
The 3 Withdrawal agreements that have been presented to Parliament have all been published. They're not secret. The main stumbling point was the Irish backstop. Labours customs union idea replaces a need for a backstop or any border checks.
It can't be hard for Labour to change one of those versions of the Withdrawal agreements to want they think it should look like, send it off to the EU and ask "Is that OK".
So why don't they do it? They could present the alternative WAB to parliament via an emergency motion or something. It might get defeated and it might not but you've got to try. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:04 - May 30 with 1888 views | StokieBlue |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:02 - May 30 by Oldsmoker |
The 3 Withdrawal agreements that have been presented to Parliament have all been published. They're not secret. The main stumbling point was the Irish backstop. Labours customs union idea replaces a need for a backstop or any border checks.
It can't be hard for Labour to change one of those versions of the Withdrawal agreements to want they think it should look like, send it off to the EU and ask "Is that OK".
So why don't they do it? They could present the alternative WAB to parliament via an emergency motion or something. It might get defeated and it might not but you've got to try. |
It's debatable if the EU will accept a customs union without freedom of movement.
If they did they would have countries like Norway up in arms I would think.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:08 - May 30 with 1873 views | Oldsmoker |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:04 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It's debatable if the EU will accept a customs union without freedom of movement.
If they did they would have countries like Norway up in arms I would think.
SB |
Well stick Freedom of movement in it then.
Labour have a chance to take the initiative because if they leave it up to the shower of sh*t that is the Tory party then we may as well all sit on the pointy bit of the fence. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:09 - May 30 with 1872 views | BlueBadger |
It's almost as if he's a cowardly incompetent who's leadership pledge of 'I will definitely be listening to the views of members and supporters unlike that nasty man Blair/Brown/Milliband' was the cynical ploy of a career politician. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:14 - May 30 with 1854 views | StokieBlue |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:08 - May 30 by Oldsmoker |
Well stick Freedom of movement in it then.
Labour have a chance to take the initiative because if they leave it up to the shower of sh*t that is the Tory party then we may as well all sit on the pointy bit of the fence. |
If you stick freedom of movement in then you might as well not leave at all. That is why it isn't a Labour position as it alienates the leavers.
You see the issue?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:29 - May 30 with 1817 views | Steve_M |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:04 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It's debatable if the EU will accept a customs union without freedom of movement.
If they did they would have countries like Norway up in arms I would think.
SB |
The Customs Union and the Single Market are discrete, Turkey is in a customs union but outside the Single Market. The Irish backstop is essentially a customs union in all but name (May's habitatual dishonesty preventing here from being clear about that).
Labour's support for a customs union perhaps reflects an old-fashioned view of the world that hasn't come to terms with the role services play in our economy because it completely ignores them. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:33 - May 30 with 1801 views | tractordownsouth |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:14 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If you stick freedom of movement in then you might as well not leave at all. That is why it isn't a Labour position as it alienates the leavers.
You see the issue?
SB |
Freedom of movement isn’t 100% free. Article 7 of the EU citizen travel directive shows that people can be deported after 3 months if they do not possess enough capital to stay in the country, medical insurance, or a job. However, successive governments haven’t used it, as immigration is a net benefit, as we all know.
However it was a fundamental mistake that remainers didn’t point this out in the referendum. |  |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:42 - May 30 with 1781 views | BlueBadger |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:39 - May 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Just when you think he may be coming to a slightly clearer position he goes and muddles things again. He can't help himself, or maybe he's getting his strings pulled by Milne and the others? Who knows. Very odd but utterly predictable.
I wonder if they might not make more political capital out of all this in the long term if they sat back and let the Tory's own Brexit, rather than play the similar games of trying to appease all people all of the time. Just let the Tories break apart over it. |
'Let things go to sh*t and hope to profit' is pretty a supervillain's master plan though, isn't it? 'Never mind that millions would be adversely affected by a Tory crash-out, we can cash in here, lads'. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:45 - May 30 with 1770 views | BlueBadger |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:27 - May 30 by WD19 |
That's a bloody understatement! ....but still a hardcore group of fanboys and girls continue to defend the man. Utterly astonishing. |
They remind of those people who still, continue to defend Keane, Jewell and, to a much lesser extent Hurst(I've only ever seen one loon downvoting anything that's negative towards mini-Roy). | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:51 - May 30 with 1752 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 15:19 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It's all very worrying. The Tories are rubbish and in open rebellion.
Labour are in hidden rebellion and JC seems to be deluded:
"a second referendum after negotiating a softer Brexit deal with Brussels."
The EU have said so many times now they aren't going to change the deal yet Labour continually say they would be able to get a better deal based on nothing much.
Sigh.
SB |
They've reiterated it today too - paraphrasing Barnier, but he pretty much said "Oi, idiots. You can leave with a deal or leave without a deal or not leave, that's up to you. But the only deal you're getting is this one. It's been negotiated, it's been approved. It's this or nothing".
I predict the next Tory MP to launch their leadership bid, or the next statement from labour, will still mention negotiating an improved deal. Guaranteed. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:55 - May 30 with 1731 views | Darth_Koont |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:00 - May 30 by homer_123 |
Admit it DK...you are straw clutching aren't you! ;) |
No, I'm just saying that how Juncker and the others in the EU have hardened their resolve in the face of our own government's @rseclownery doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same rule for a new government.
But I've been unimpressed with Labour's handling of Brexit so who's to say the EU don't take a similar view and keep the same stance. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 17:02 - May 30 with 1718 views | Steve_M |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 16:55 - May 30 by Darth_Koont |
No, I'm just saying that how Juncker and the others in the EU have hardened their resolve in the face of our own government's @rseclownery doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same rule for a new government.
But I've been unimpressed with Labour's handling of Brexit so who's to say the EU don't take a similar view and keep the same stance. |
I don't think Labour unicorns cut any more ice than Tory ones. The only way that the Withdrawal Agreement gets renegotiated is to include membership of the Single Market I think. | |
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| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 17:08 - May 30 with 1708 views | Darth_Koont |
| Day 4528 of Jeremy's fence sitting continues on 17:02 - May 30 by Steve_M |
I don't think Labour unicorns cut any more ice than Tory ones. The only way that the Withdrawal Agreement gets renegotiated is to include membership of the Single Market I think. |
I don't think that Labour have nearly the same redlines (and internal fault lines) over Europe as the Tories do. So, who knows where Labour will eventually end up? I can see them inching towards a Norway-style arrangement with certain opt-outs if given sufficient encouragement by Remain voters and the EU. | |
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