| This weeks Budget give away/bribe 09:50 - Mar 4 with 3508 views | Pinewoodblue |
Sounds as if Hunt will reduce NI again not sure, if you think a bribe will work, this is the best way to go about it.
Gives the wrong message as far as NHS is concerned. Secondly it has an adverse affect on a lot of low earning pensioners who find themselves paying increased income tax as tax allowances are frozen
If you destroy the link between NI and funding the NHS you might as well merge NI with income tax but I doubt either party has the guts for such a radical approach.
Time for a total rethink on taxation. Even an announcement of a review would be welcome. |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 20:55 - Mar 4 with 833 views | TractorWood |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 13:25 - Mar 4 by Pinewoodblue |
NI represents 18% of Government revenue. Back in 2022 NI increased by 1.25% specifically to fund NHS. |
That's just well intended political waffle. There is no actual link between the NHS funding and NI. |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 21:13 - Mar 4 with 803 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 14:17 - Mar 4 by Guthrum |
The bigest problem with a major review of UK taxation is the sheer size of the problem. A vast, convoluted and tangled edifice which has grown up organically over several centuries. A truly Gordian Knot, but resistant to simple cutting through, given the country can't function without a working revenue system (whatever the libertarian ideologues might say).
There are so many layers of exclusions, exeptions and conditional factors which would need to be incorporated, in order to make a new system "fair". That's without tackling the deliate balance between sales, import and income tax methods.
It would take many years and a lot of money to work through. |
But doesn't the complexity enable the richest to pay far less tax and keep some accountants in a job? Wouldn't simplifying it dramatically have the double bonus of bringing in a higher tax income and making the administration of it cheaper and simpler (albeit at the cost of some accountants' jobs)? On the fairness side of it, there would need to be some examination of the need for extra breaks and maybe a gradual adjustment or at least notice of changes to come into effect. |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 21:27 - Mar 4 with 794 views | TractorWood |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 21:13 - Mar 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
But doesn't the complexity enable the richest to pay far less tax and keep some accountants in a job? Wouldn't simplifying it dramatically have the double bonus of bringing in a higher tax income and making the administration of it cheaper and simpler (albeit at the cost of some accountants' jobs)? On the fairness side of it, there would need to be some examination of the need for extra breaks and maybe a gradual adjustment or at least notice of changes to come into effect. |
It wouldn't affect accountants particularly. It might free up some personal tax advisory time. They aren't accountants in the strictest sense unless they are double or classically trained.
It would devastate HMRC though which somehow has 66,000 employees. Absolutely baffling how there could be that many. Given that virtually every submission is now online and is iXBRL tagged. Absolutely ripe for the AI revolution.
HMRC tend to make brash announcements about changes in 2 years time, forget about them and then remember 6 weeks before launch that they've done absolutely nothing about it. See making tax digital etc etc. [Post edited 4 Mar 21:28]
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:27 - Mar 5 with 761 views | chicoazul |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 10:04 - Mar 4 by NthQldITFC |
Many of us 'in the middle' need to be serious and selfless enough to ask ourselves "do I want a nice little bonus to enable me and my family to enjoy a few more luxuries and trips etc., or would I rather pay a little more tax to enable the very fabric of our country to hold together?" The latter isn't even an entirely selfless attitude; we all live within that fabric and depend upon it for our safety.
I don't want any tax cuts for myself. |
This implies that the problem or issue is the amount of tax you pay as opposed to the quality of the people spending it. Has nobody learned anything from the last twenty years? We all pay enormous amounts of tax and get s0d all in return other than vaguely interested emergency services and bankrupt councils. And the solution according to many TWTDers is, let’s pay more tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/middle-class-workers-mortgages- |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:38 - Mar 5 with 731 views | Radlett_blue |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:27 - Mar 5 by chicoazul |
This implies that the problem or issue is the amount of tax you pay as opposed to the quality of the people spending it. Has nobody learned anything from the last twenty years? We all pay enormous amounts of tax and get s0d all in return other than vaguely interested emergency services and bankrupt councils. And the solution according to many TWTDers is, let’s pay more tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/middle-class-workers-mortgages- |
Everyone will have their own view of which parts of government expenditure should be cut back - defence, overseas aid, benefits etc. But the 2 monsters, accounting together for over half of spending, are social protection (pensions, benefits etc) and the NHS. Most people don't want these reduced. So, everyone claims they can spend the money more efficiently & reduce waste, but that never happens. |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:38 - Mar 5 with 730 views | redrickstuhaart |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:27 - Mar 5 by chicoazul |
This implies that the problem or issue is the amount of tax you pay as opposed to the quality of the people spending it. Has nobody learned anything from the last twenty years? We all pay enormous amounts of tax and get s0d all in return other than vaguely interested emergency services and bankrupt councils. And the solution according to many TWTDers is, let’s pay more tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/middle-class-workers-mortgages- |
What is your solution? Given the parlous state of our public services and an ageing population? |  | | |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:04 - Mar 5 with 669 views | Churchman |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 08:27 - Mar 5 by chicoazul |
This implies that the problem or issue is the amount of tax you pay as opposed to the quality of the people spending it. Has nobody learned anything from the last twenty years? We all pay enormous amounts of tax and get s0d all in return other than vaguely interested emergency services and bankrupt councils. And the solution according to many TWTDers is, let’s pay more tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/middle-class-workers-mortgages- |
‘Vaguely interested emergency services’ - do you have any evidence for a dismissive statement like that? I ask because it’s not my recent experience.
Here is the breakdown of what is spent
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/what-does-government-spend-money
Has it all been spent badly? Of course not. Public spending is hugely complex. Could areas be improved? Of course. Many of them I’m sure, but to generalise as you have done is I believe wrong. It’s a bit like saying get rid of all ‘quangos’. Until you understand what they are and what they do, it’s a foolish way to go about things.
With Austerity it was all about headcount cut. They didn’t care who. Get the numbers down., the dead wood out (Maude). That’s why 1000s of Tax Inspectors were retired/paid off even though they were bringing in far more than their salaries or any cheap post graduate replacement ever could. All viewed as a waste of space, they simply didn’t bother to understand what these people did. The tax gap didn’t matter. Money? We can print it.
At the end of the day, you cannot get over the fact that in a £3tn economy we can afford to do things. We can afford to resource health services to the level of our peer countries in Europe if they can. We can afford a police force and to educate children properly. We can also afford Defence. And a workable justice system.
We cannot afford not to do these things. It’s the fundamental mistake the current thieves and dregs in government are making. They don’t wish to understand as they go about enriching themselves. [Post edited 5 Mar 13:29]
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:12 - Mar 5 with 658 views | NthQldITFC |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 21:13 - Mar 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
But doesn't the complexity enable the richest to pay far less tax and keep some accountants in a job? Wouldn't simplifying it dramatically have the double bonus of bringing in a higher tax income and making the administration of it cheaper and simpler (albeit at the cost of some accountants' jobs)? On the fairness side of it, there would need to be some examination of the need for extra breaks and maybe a gradual adjustment or at least notice of changes to come into effect. |
Knowing nothing about it whatsoever, my assumption is that the complexity is very much protected and enshrined largely because it also (in very much a Sir Humphrey Appleby manner) keeps a hell of a lot of people in 'gainful' employment, both on the collection and the avoidance teams.
I doubt I'd be far wrong in that ignorant and uninformed assumption, would I? |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:15 - Mar 5 with 653 views | NthQldITFC |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:12 - Mar 5 by NthQldITFC |
Knowing nothing about it whatsoever, my assumption is that the complexity is very much protected and enshrined largely because it also (in very much a Sir Humphrey Appleby manner) keeps a hell of a lot of people in 'gainful' employment, both on the collection and the avoidance teams.
I doubt I'd be far wrong in that ignorant and uninformed assumption, would I? |
There are so many things about our antiquated country that seem to be inherently corrupt, are dragging us down, and need to be smashed and rebuilt however painful that may be. Someone will always say "it can't be done because..." though. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 13:04 - Mar 5 with 635 views | chicoazul |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:15 - Mar 5 by NthQldITFC |
There are so many things about our antiquated country that seem to be inherently corrupt, are dragging us down, and need to be smashed and rebuilt however painful that may be. Someone will always say "it can't be done because..." though. |
Venezuela is corrupt. The Uk isn’t corrupt really. Doing favours for chums now and then is barely comparable to corruption. | |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 13:06 - Mar 5 with 634 views | chicoazul |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 12:04 - Mar 5 by Churchman |
‘Vaguely interested emergency services’ - do you have any evidence for a dismissive statement like that? I ask because it’s not my recent experience.
Here is the breakdown of what is spent
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/what-does-government-spend-money
Has it all been spent badly? Of course not. Public spending is hugely complex. Could areas be improved? Of course. Many of them I’m sure, but to generalise as you have done is I believe wrong. It’s a bit like saying get rid of all ‘quangos’. Until you understand what they are and what they do, it’s a foolish way to go about things.
With Austerity it was all about headcount cut. They didn’t care who. Get the numbers down., the dead wood out (Maude). That’s why 1000s of Tax Inspectors were retired/paid off even though they were bringing in far more than their salaries or any cheap post graduate replacement ever could. All viewed as a waste of space, they simply didn’t bother to understand what these people did. The tax gap didn’t matter. Money? We can print it.
At the end of the day, you cannot get over the fact that in a £3tn economy we can afford to do things. We can afford to resource health services to the level of our peer countries in Europe if they can. We can afford a police force and to educate children properly. We can also afford Defence. And a workable justice system.
We cannot afford not to do these things. It’s the fundamental mistake the current thieves and dregs in government are making. They don’t wish to understand as they go about enriching themselves. [Post edited 5 Mar 13:29]
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You seem to be agreeing with me. We can afford to do these things, but we don’t, because as I’ve said the wrong people are in charge. I don’t agree with you at all about headcount or “at the end of the day”. | |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 15:48 - Mar 5 with 566 views | J2BLUE |
Sky saying there will be a cut to 8% NI.
It's an absolute pantomime isn't it? They'll cut NI. Labour will respond saying it's irresponsible (which it is). Then Chief Snake or Hunt will say that proves it, the Tories are the party of low taxes and help for normal people.
Then an election in May according to Labour. Either the bribe works, or more likely, it leaves Labour with an even bigger funding issue.
Party politics is toxic. |  |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 16:30 - Mar 5 with 530 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 21:27 - Mar 4 by TractorWood |
It wouldn't affect accountants particularly. It might free up some personal tax advisory time. They aren't accountants in the strictest sense unless they are double or classically trained.
It would devastate HMRC though which somehow has 66,000 employees. Absolutely baffling how there could be that many. Given that virtually every submission is now online and is iXBRL tagged. Absolutely ripe for the AI revolution.
HMRC tend to make brash announcements about changes in 2 years time, forget about them and then remember 6 weeks before launch that they've done absolutely nothing about it. See making tax digital etc etc. [Post edited 4 Mar 21:28]
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If seeing something of the paperwork required to claim benefits for relatives that were in residential care due to their dementia is anything to go by, a lot of those employees will be for entering pointless data from forms designed to deter people from claiming what they are rightly entitled to. | |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 16:31 - Mar 5 with 529 views | Pinewoodblue |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 15:48 - Mar 5 by J2BLUE |
Sky saying there will be a cut to 8% NI.
It's an absolute pantomime isn't it? They'll cut NI. Labour will respond saying it's irresponsible (which it is). Then Chief Snake or Hunt will say that proves it, the Tories are the party of low taxes and help for normal people.
Then an election in May according to Labour. Either the bribe works, or more likely, it leaves Labour with an even bigger funding issue.
Party politics is toxic. |
What is toxic is leaking everything in advance. Mr Speaker isn't going to like it. Monarch, then HoC is how it is supposed to be.
You can get odds of 5/2 on the election date being April-June while Oct-Dec is 1/3.
While I would have thought May was likely clearly the betting public doesn't agree. | |
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| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 16:42 - Mar 5 with 512 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| This weeks Budget give away/bribe on 13:25 - Mar 4 by Pinewoodblue |
NI represents 18% of Government revenue. Back in 2022 NI increased by 1.25% specifically to fund NHS. |
An increase which was reversed almost immediately and never came into effect, if I remember rightly. |  |
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