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Brexit 10:41 - Nov 23 with 9596 viewsblueislander

“The less intelligent were more likely to back Brexit”” Headline from today’s Times. WHO would have thought it?
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Brexit on 17:44 - Nov 23 with 1749 viewsmr_bean

Brexit on 14:47 - Nov 23 by Swansea_Blue

That not what this article and the research it’s based on is claiming. What’s actually being said is that people of all levels on intelligence voted for leave and for remain, but there’s a skew in the overall population of the sampled leave voters towards a slightly lower intelligence.

I’ve no idea what the point of it is though and I agree the headline is inflammatory. It’s bound to get people’s backs up.


I wouldn't worry too much about the effect of that headline. The hard of thinking aren't likely to be reading The Times.
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Brexit on 17:55 - Nov 23 with 1709 viewsFreddies_Ears

Brexit on 11:18 - Nov 23 by hype313

You can't argue with stupid


Like the woman interviewed in Walsall who voted leave because her local council had closed her library...
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Brexit on 18:01 - Nov 23 with 1693 viewsFreddies_Ears

Brexit on 16:29 - Nov 23 by Herbivore

We left and we're much worse off as a result. Why should people "get over" an act of self-sabotage that was forced on them? I've lost rights and freedoms that I won't get back, I don't think it's unreasonable to feel aggrieved about it.


It was a bonfire of human rights, especially my right to live & work freely across Europe.
Many others suffered more, esp in personal relationships/ families.
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Brexit on 18:08 - Nov 23 with 1680 viewsMK1

Brexit on 11:18 - Nov 23 by hype313

You can't argue with stupid


You seem to manage it.
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Brexit on 18:15 - Nov 23 with 1671 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit on 18:01 - Nov 23 by Freddies_Ears

It was a bonfire of human rights, especially my right to live & work freely across Europe.
Many others suffered more, esp in personal relationships/ families.


And with respect to jobs. I used to manage European funding and research projects. That went well! That source of funding hasn’t been replaced, as leavers and the leave government promised it would be. Not that that’s any surprise. We used to have about 300 people working with European partners on many projects from improved access to healthcare, developing new low carbon technologies, improving maths and science uptake in schools, increasing access to work training for disadvantaged groups, etc. All sorts of stuff, all now finished. Most of those colleagues gone and the money removed from the local economy.

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Brexit on 09:38 - Nov 24 with 1553 viewsBlueBadger

Brexit on 18:15 - Nov 23 by Swansea_Blue

And with respect to jobs. I used to manage European funding and research projects. That went well! That source of funding hasn’t been replaced, as leavers and the leave government promised it would be. Not that that’s any surprise. We used to have about 300 people working with European partners on many projects from improved access to healthcare, developing new low carbon technologies, improving maths and science uptake in schools, increasing access to work training for disadvantaged groups, etc. All sorts of stuff, all now finished. Most of those colleagues gone and the money removed from the local economy.


It's been catastrophic for healthcare. We've effectively removed the UK from the jobs market for EU nationals/residents.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Brexit on 11:01 - Nov 24 with 1489 viewsDJR

Brexit on 09:38 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger

It's been catastrophic for healthcare. We've effectively removed the UK from the jobs market for EU nationals/residents.


And I assume replacing them with non-EU workers brings with it increased costs such as agency and visa costs.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2023 11:01]
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Brexit on 11:14 - Nov 24 with 1460 viewshype313

Brexit on 18:08 - Nov 23 by MK1

You seem to manage it.


Brilliant.

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Brexit on 12:11 - Nov 24 with 1401 viewsRob88

Brexit on 13:58 - Nov 23 by Rimsy

This was a big reason why Leave won the vote. Constantly telling people they're too thick to understand the arguments, gets their back up. And it continues.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2023 13:59]


I think you are right, remain snobbery will definitely be a reason for some.

The reasons for voting leave will have been multifaceted and different for different people, obviously.

My personal view is that a significant reason for many would be generally feeling discontented and unrepresented. I think lots of people were sticking two fingers up at the political system.
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Brexit on 12:24 - Nov 24 with 1382 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit on 09:38 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger

It's been catastrophic for healthcare. We've effectively removed the UK from the jobs market for EU nationals/residents.


I can well imagine. And the consequences of that are a lot greater than in my line of work of course.

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Brexit on 12:33 - Nov 24 with 1344 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit on 12:11 - Nov 24 by Rob88

I think you are right, remain snobbery will definitely be a reason for some.

The reasons for voting leave will have been multifaceted and different for different people, obviously.

My personal view is that a significant reason for many would be generally feeling discontented and unrepresented. I think lots of people were sticking two fingers up at the political system.


I think that's pretty much it in a nutshell. People feeling as though the status quo wasn't working (and it wasn't for many) and taking it out on an easy target they were directed to. Directed to by the very people who were actually making their lives a misery in the first place. It was a big con, exploiting people's misfortune and fears for personal political and financial gain.

I don't think it helps blaming those people (as annoyed as I was/am with them ). I'd rather we look at the underlying causes of inequality and focus on those instead. Desperate people clutch at straws don't they. Let's have fewer desperate people.

(nb there were also a whole load of other reasons, as you say, but a recurring theme is the desperation of those in the most economically deprived areas. it's at least one thing we could try and tackle to improve people's lives).

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Brexit on 12:36 - Nov 24 with 1335 viewsHerbivore

Brexit on 12:33 - Nov 24 by Swansea_Blue

I think that's pretty much it in a nutshell. People feeling as though the status quo wasn't working (and it wasn't for many) and taking it out on an easy target they were directed to. Directed to by the very people who were actually making their lives a misery in the first place. It was a big con, exploiting people's misfortune and fears for personal political and financial gain.

I don't think it helps blaming those people (as annoyed as I was/am with them ). I'd rather we look at the underlying causes of inequality and focus on those instead. Desperate people clutch at straws don't they. Let's have fewer desperate people.

(nb there were also a whole load of other reasons, as you say, but a recurring theme is the desperation of those in the most economically deprived areas. it's at least one thing we could try and tackle to improve people's lives).


When the turkeys keep voting for Christmas though it's hard to maintain sympathy, and I don't just mean the Brexit referendum.

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Brexit on 12:52 - Nov 24 with 1318 viewsRob88

Brexit on 12:36 - Nov 24 by Herbivore

When the turkeys keep voting for Christmas though it's hard to maintain sympathy, and I don't just mean the Brexit referendum.


“(b) The Labour Party’s abandonment of the working class appears to be a principal reason why these people voted to leave”

The above was one line of argument concluded from a study (interviews) in Teeside, “Brexit and the working class on Teesside: Moving beyond reductionism”.

The working class needs to be/feel represented.

Many feel the Labour Party no longer represent the working class, the party seems to have forgotten its roots.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2023 12:53]
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Brexit on 13:50 - Nov 24 with 1271 viewsDJR

Brexit on 12:33 - Nov 24 by Swansea_Blue

I think that's pretty much it in a nutshell. People feeling as though the status quo wasn't working (and it wasn't for many) and taking it out on an easy target they were directed to. Directed to by the very people who were actually making their lives a misery in the first place. It was a big con, exploiting people's misfortune and fears for personal political and financial gain.

I don't think it helps blaming those people (as annoyed as I was/am with them ). I'd rather we look at the underlying causes of inequality and focus on those instead. Desperate people clutch at straws don't they. Let's have fewer desperate people.

(nb there were also a whole load of other reasons, as you say, but a recurring theme is the desperation of those in the most economically deprived areas. it's at least one thing we could try and tackle to improve people's lives).


It strikes me that the Brexit campaign also tapped into something (a type of English nationalism?) that didn't play out in Scotland, which has areas of deprivation just as high, if not higher, than England. In Glasgow City, for example, 66.6% voted Remain but in the fairly prosperous commuter constituency where I live in the south east, 55.7% voted Leave.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2023 15:56]
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Brexit on 13:57 - Nov 24 with 1244 viewsHelp

Well that accounts for all the Tories that wanted it and ousted david Cameron in the process. Which started the Tory f up of the United Kingdom since.
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Brexit on 13:59 - Nov 24 with 1236 viewshype313

Brexit on 13:57 - Nov 24 by Help

Well that accounts for all the Tories that wanted it and ousted david Cameron in the process. Which started the Tory f up of the United Kingdom since.


I dunno, him and Osborne seemed to be starting the f up with years of Austerity previously.

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Brexit on 14:08 - Nov 24 with 1215 viewsFreddies_Ears

Brexit on 12:36 - Nov 24 by Herbivore

When the turkeys keep voting for Christmas though it's hard to maintain sympathy, and I don't just mean the Brexit referendum.


Talk of turkeys & Christmas reminded me of a fascinating survey published earlier this week, aligning voters' current perspective on rejoin v stay out to the supermarket they shop at.

The only 2 supermarkets to have a majority of stay outers were..... Iceland & M&S. Two extremes, the M&S presumably being Tory-voting elderly, and the Iceland being far more working (or non-working) class left-behinds. Interesting though that middle England, from Lidl / Aldi through to Waitrose, were majority rejoiners.

If you draw a conclusion about domestic politics from that, it just might be that there is a vast middle ground, and a relatively small extreme grouping at either end of the spectrum. Curious, then, that the govt appears to focus mostly or solely on satisfying those M&S Tories.
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Brexit on 14:40 - Nov 24 with 1178 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

I imagine you’d see similar findings in relation to SCEXIT given the reasons for leaving are the same unicorns, ‘who needs experts - the economists are wrong’, and empty nationalism.
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Brexit on 14:54 - Nov 24 with 1160 viewsshaunmahony

I work for a multinational company. My CEO who was Swedish called me on the morning after disbelieving the outcome, and commented that surely the voters should have had to take a course and exam to qualify to be able to make a decision on such a complex and many faceted issue.
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Brexit on 15:45 - Nov 24 with 1107 viewsHerbivore

Brexit on 12:52 - Nov 24 by Rob88

“(b) The Labour Party’s abandonment of the working class appears to be a principal reason why these people voted to leave”

The above was one line of argument concluded from a study (interviews) in Teeside, “Brexit and the working class on Teesside: Moving beyond reductionism”.

The working class needs to be/feel represented.

Many feel the Labour Party no longer represent the working class, the party seems to have forgotten its roots.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2023 12:53]


So instead they voted for a party that genuinely despises them.

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Brexit on 17:14 - Nov 24 with 1061 viewschicoazul

Nissan to lead £2bn investment in UK electric car plant https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67517522

But TWTD said, etc and so forth

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Brexit on 17:20 - Nov 24 with 1046 viewsHerbivore

Brexit on 17:14 - Nov 24 by chicoazul

Nissan to lead £2bn investment in UK electric car plant https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67517522

But TWTD said, etc and so forth


Hasn't the government basically thrown a ton of money at them? And TWTD was right (it wasn't really TWTD, more actual experts) that Brexit has been bad for the economy, one bit of inward investment doesn't change that.

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Brexit on 18:15 - Nov 24 with 1014 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit on 13:50 - Nov 24 by DJR

It strikes me that the Brexit campaign also tapped into something (a type of English nationalism?) that didn't play out in Scotland, which has areas of deprivation just as high, if not higher, than England. In Glasgow City, for example, 66.6% voted Remain but in the fairly prosperous commuter constituency where I live in the south east, 55.7% voted Leave.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2023 15:56]


There's lots of stories within stories aren't there. The example from Wales I was thinking of were the people in the Valleys who strongly came out for leave despite being surrounded by initiatives and infrastructure that were paid for by European money (before anyone starts, yes I know we sent money to the EU, but this money would never have made it back to these parts of Wales and Wales was a net beneficiary).

The Scotland story is interesting. I wonder if the stronger independence movement had anything to do with it, with people more cynical about Scotland's prospects out of the EU and under the UK government. The cynicism of the UK govt, whilst here, doesn't seem quite as strong in Wales.

Or maybe there's something special in those deep fried mars bars and single malt...

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Brexit on 18:26 - Nov 24 with 996 viewsnoggin

Brexit on 17:14 - Nov 24 by chicoazul

Nissan to lead £2bn investment in UK electric car plant https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67517522

But TWTD said, etc and so forth


Do you want some help with those straws?

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Brexit on 19:39 - Nov 24 with 930 viewsHarleydavidsonBlue

Brexit on 14:54 - Nov 24 by shaunmahony

I work for a multinational company. My CEO who was Swedish called me on the morning after disbelieving the outcome, and commented that surely the voters should have had to take a course and exam to qualify to be able to make a decision on such a complex and many faceted issue.


Yawn, Yawn & Yawn
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