| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? 00:35 - Nov 12 with 5211 views | Garv |
No one after Hirst went off.
Don't want to be critical of players but that's two games in row Ladapo has looked like he can't be arsed. His running is so lethargic and lacking any kind of intensity. Hirst must be laughing his head off right now because he's so comfortably first choice it's actually a bit unhealthy.
Also, why did Scarlett look knackered 15 minutes after coming on? Part of the reason we let Swansea back into the game was down to the poor job those two did. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:10 - Nov 12 with 1297 views | FrimleyBlue |
As I said the other day. Freddie has a different engine than hirst. But also plays a different role imo
Freddies asked to stay high more imo where as hirst is a bit more kane like, but not as deep |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:13 - Nov 12 with 1308 views | WeWereZombies |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:05 - Nov 12 by franz_tyson |
Fair enough, but surely there's room for all types of comments. Not just all fuzzy warm ones. Then it becomes a puff piece.
McKenna isn't just going to slap backs and offer compliments. He's also going to address some of our shortcomings. We should have won 5 or 6-1 with some great football.... but in the end we were holding on to a slender lead. I think that's worth talking about. |
And as it is McKenna who develops, trains and selects the players can we question bringing on the first substitutes after seventy minutes rather than on the hour ? I think that has been a less effective change of tactics in the last couple of games. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:22 - Nov 12 with 1283 views | blueislander |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:13 - Nov 12 by WeWereZombies |
And as it is McKenna who develops, trains and selects the players can we question bringing on the first substitutes after seventy minutes rather than on the hour ? I think that has been a less effective change of tactics in the last couple of games. |
I am concerned at the growing sense of entitlement creeping in to our fan base. After so many years of being totally underwhelming we now have a team to be proud of. |  | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:28 - Nov 12 with 1269 views | Mullet |
It's a terrible take.
It's been two games in a row where he's come on and teams are desperately trying to keep it tight and mark us out in the middle of the pitch.
Freddie is ok at breaking the lines, but not in Hirst's league. He's much better back to goal, recycling the play to our CMs. At both points in these games they've been occupied and teams forcing us out wide hasn't yielded the passes/crosses that it did against Brum.
Seems an incredibly poor analysis to suggest what you have especially when you're calling someone else lazy. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:29 - Nov 12 with 1262 views | WeWereZombies |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:22 - Nov 12 by blueislander |
I am concerned at the growing sense of entitlement creeping in to our fan base. After so many years of being totally underwhelming we now have a team to be proud of. |
I'm with you on the disappointing sense of entitlement (which has always been there, even at our lowest ebb) but part of having a team to be proud of is that it makes us interested in every detail of the football again. As franz_tyson said in his last post I think we can get too warm and fuzzy about these good times and I suspect McKenna knows there is still a lot to learn if we find ourselves in the Premier League next season, so a critical view is my option for happy but not blinkered watching. | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:40 - Nov 12 with 1229 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:29 - Nov 12 by WeWereZombies |
I'm with you on the disappointing sense of entitlement (which has always been there, even at our lowest ebb) but part of having a team to be proud of is that it makes us interested in every detail of the football again. As franz_tyson said in his last post I think we can get too warm and fuzzy about these good times and I suspect McKenna knows there is still a lot to learn if we find ourselves in the Premier League next season, so a critical view is my option for happy but not blinkered watching. |
I could understand the entitlement when we're 11th in L1. There's no way we should've been serving up what we were in terms of the relative resources and playing squads. Humpings by Northamption and Barrow, I did feel entitled tbh.
Not now though. We don't really have any right on paper to be mixing it with Leicester, Leeds and Southampton yet considering the depth of their pockets and amount of quality they have. Our best forward by some distance couldn't get near Leicester's thinking, hence us getting him off them. Yesterday Leeds brought on Gnoto (linked with a £20 move away), the lad they bought off Barcelona for about £15m and Bamford. We've got Jackson, Harness and Ladapo. No offence to them but what KM is doing here with this squad is unbelievable. Dreamland. No entitlement here. |  | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:42 - Nov 12 with 1218 views | chicoazul |
A black Ipswich player being accused of lazy is it again? |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:47 - Nov 12 with 1212 views | Wickets |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:22 - Nov 12 by blueislander |
I am concerned at the growing sense of entitlement creeping in to our fan base. After so many years of being totally underwhelming we now have a team to be proud of. |
Well that's a good point but if we are to improve as is the aim we need to be looking at where that could be done . Hopefully its nothing personal and certainly not racial . For me as well as most have done there is room for moving some players on and bringing one or two in . Donacian , Aluco , Harness , Ladapo , Ball , all have contributed to our rise but i expect they might be improved upon over the next window or three . When we were in League 1 we looked to try and bring in players who could compete in the Championship and got that right now maybe we will look to bring in players who can do the same in the Premier . Budget allowing of course . |  | | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:57 - Nov 12 with 1190 views | Vaughan8 |
This is actually hilarious. Ladapo came on in the 89 minute.......
If Hirst (and others) had finished better we'd be 6 up. Ladapo came in when we'd already lost momentum. We were just seeing the game out (just not very well).
The defender with Lowe for the goal (woolfenden?) Should have just took him out and got a yellow. | | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 13:22 - Nov 12 with 1137 views | LankHenners |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:07 - Nov 12 by _clive_baker_ |
I agree about Harness. He's really dangerous when he's facing their goal, has a decent pass in him, can create and certainly finish. He's good on the half turn but the issue with him for me is when he's got his back to goal, he doesn't have the quality that Broadhead and Chaplin have in those tight areas to look after it or bounce balls off him, and that's a big part of the role for our 'number 10's'. I think his attributes would make him a good wide option, I think he's played there before at Pompey, but he's not getting in there ahead of Burns or Hutchinson any time soon. I think he's a decent sub option if we're chasing a goal and on the front foot. |
Obviously he's shown he can contribute, and one of his strengths (which he showed in the early part of his career here) is, when we're on the front and getting right at the opposition, that he has a bit of a knack of timing his arrival into/around the box for a cut back or a loose ball to get a shot away.
However despite that I think if we had managed to get another attacking midfielder over the line (Rak-Sakyi, Philogene for e.g.) then we wouldn't have seen so much of Harness, nor Jackson if truth be told.
Do feel sometimes that people are quick to over praise or defend players who don't generally get appraised in the same way as more talented players, and I think that's been happening to Harness recently. Not to write him off, and we all know by now that one of McKenna's strengths is making everyone feel important and getting the best out of them, but think there's an element of naivety from some quarters at which players/positions we'll looking to improve on as and when the opportunity arrises. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:13 - Nov 12 with 1087 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 10:11 - Nov 12 by Nutkins_Return |
That's poor to be honest. From what he has written that's uncalled for to accuse him of that if if you disagree with the opinion. |
These types of tropes are given to black players. They are attributed to two again. I stand by it. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:16 - Nov 12 with 1083 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 10:25 - Nov 12 by Cheltenham_Blue |
For my own enlightenment, can you point out these 'racist tropes' in the OP, because, and I'll be honest, I like to think I'm pretty clued up on that kind of thing, but I'm completely missing them. |
Sure. Black players are often call lazy and disinterested regarding their effort as a racist trope. The OP is using synonyms.
Do you really think KM is going to bring someone on who can't last a few minutes from the bench, when the clubs minimum standard is to be insanely fit and maximum effort?
EDIT: Just seen you were 3rd on the downvoting list. Strange that you are asking me to explain why when you've already made your mind up. Could have saved us both the time and just stuck with the downvote. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 16:26]
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:18 - Nov 12 with 1079 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:42 - Nov 12 by chicoazul |
A black Ipswich player being accused of lazy is it again? |
Careful, pointing that out is controversial! | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:22 - Nov 12 with 1067 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:16 - Nov 12 by Kropotkin123 |
Sure. Black players are often call lazy and disinterested regarding their effort as a racist trope. The OP is using synonyms.
Do you really think KM is going to bring someone on who can't last a few minutes from the bench, when the clubs minimum standard is to be insanely fit and maximum effort?
EDIT: Just seen you were 3rd on the downvoting list. Strange that you are asking me to explain why when you've already made your mind up. Could have saved us both the time and just stuck with the downvote. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 16:26]
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Altho. KM did speak of his disappointment in how we ended the game. How do you know for sure he wasn't disappointed in the efforts of the subs...
I don't agree with the assessment of ladapo. Hes as I said a different player than hirst with a different engine and hes excellent at what he does.
But as you've mentioned the minimum standard.. we can't be sure as fans in this that KM was happy with any of the subs effort levels. | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:33 - Nov 12 with 1066 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 10:19 - Nov 12 by _clive_baker_ |
I think it's wholly unfair to claim he 'can't be arsed'. There's literally zero evidence to support that claim, he's always come across as professional and has kept himself in shape despite not playing as much as he would've liked. I don't think there's any doubt he has a ceiling in terms of his level, Hirst is clearly streets ahead, but you would expect that of a guy who spent his childhood scoring goals at all England levels, was so highly thought of, cost us £1.5m (likely a lot more if we go up) and probably earns close to £1m a year vs. a lad who was playing for Margate, Shrewsbury and Southend over that period, signed for us on a free and is probably paid 1/4 of that if he's lucky.
Freddie's done alright, he's scored some important goals for us and no doubt he'll score a few more. I don't see people calling Dom Ball lazy when he comes on and isn't Morsy. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 10:21]
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GPM this season.
519/4
129.75/1
Last season, despite his slow start, in the league he was
2172/17
127.76/1
So operating at a similar level in his goal contribution to last year. | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 17:01 - Nov 12 with 1022 views | Herbivore |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:40 - Nov 12 by _clive_baker_ |
I could understand the entitlement when we're 11th in L1. There's no way we should've been serving up what we were in terms of the relative resources and playing squads. Humpings by Northamption and Barrow, I did feel entitled tbh.
Not now though. We don't really have any right on paper to be mixing it with Leicester, Leeds and Southampton yet considering the depth of their pockets and amount of quality they have. Our best forward by some distance couldn't get near Leicester's thinking, hence us getting him off them. Yesterday Leeds brought on Gnoto (linked with a £20 move away), the lad they bought off Barcelona for about £15m and Bamford. We've got Jackson, Harness and Ladapo. No offence to them but what KM is doing here with this squad is unbelievable. Dreamland. No entitlement here. |
I'd take Gnonto for £20 to be fair. |  |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 19:28 - Nov 12 with 938 views | Garv |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 11:57 - Nov 12 by Vaughan8 |
This is actually hilarious. Ladapo came on in the 89 minute.......
If Hirst (and others) had finished better we'd be 6 up. Ladapo came in when we'd already lost momentum. We were just seeing the game out (just not very well).
The defender with Lowe for the goal (woolfenden?) Should have just took him out and got a yellow. |
No arguments there, I thought the same about Woolfenden.
It was criticism of effort level. He played 10 minutes - one can form an opinion on a player's effort level after 10 minutes. It wasn't criticism of end product or quality on the ball. Believe me, at half time I was critical of some of the chances we we wasted, while at the same time marvelling at how we were playing, as usual.
The Ladapo opinion isn't exactly coming out of nowhere. I don't know where you sit but where I was there was a large amount of frustration at what our forwards were doing to help close out that game. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 22:29]
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 19:33 - Nov 12 with 924 views | Garv |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 10:19 - Nov 12 by _clive_baker_ |
I think it's wholly unfair to claim he 'can't be arsed'. There's literally zero evidence to support that claim, he's always come across as professional and has kept himself in shape despite not playing as much as he would've liked. I don't think there's any doubt he has a ceiling in terms of his level, Hirst is clearly streets ahead, but you would expect that of a guy who spent his childhood scoring goals at all England levels, was so highly thought of, cost us £1.5m (likely a lot more if we go up) and probably earns close to £1m a year vs. a lad who was playing for Margate, Shrewsbury and Southend over that period, signed for us on a free and is probably paid 1/4 of that if he's lucky.
Freddie's done alright, he's scored some important goals for us and no doubt he'll score a few more. I don't see people calling Dom Ball lazy when he comes on and isn't Morsy. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 10:21]
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If they felt Ball was putting in less effort compared to Morsy, even accounting for a difference in ability, they'd be entitled to.
The actual quality Hirst offers over Ladapo is basically irrelevant to the debate. | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 20:11 - Nov 12 with 870 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:13 - Nov 12 by Kropotkin123 |
These types of tropes are given to black players. They are attributed to two again. I stand by it. |
I don't really agree with the OP but suggesting someone is racist based on that OP is disgusting mate. You don't know him (neither do I) and he's assessing (wrongly or rightly) a professional athlete. So laziness is an attribute. The main other subject of laziness/lack of concentration in our side has probably been Woolfy (again probably unfairly). Even in that match Wolfie has had plenty questioning him for that last goal and being lazy.
If there was a pattern of comments time and again by the same poster about black players then you might have cause. But this is really unpleasant and a bit of a societal issue where people think they can just tag someone with a pretty serious label with next to nothing but a gut feeling to back it up. Poor. | | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 22:37 - Nov 12 with 815 views | Garv |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 16:13 - Nov 12 by Kropotkin123 |
These types of tropes are given to black players. They are attributed to two again. I stand by it. |
Stand by your casual and baseless accusation of racism all you want. Doesn't make you any less wrong. | |
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 22:47 - Nov 12 with 807 views | Garv |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 10:32 - Nov 12 by blueislander |
Wow. How critical we are now. If we really want to go down that route; Davis should have stopped the cross coming in for their first goal. For the second where was Clarke?. Lowe was his man. Of course Woolfender’s challenge was poor , but no one was covering behind him. What about all the gilt edged chances we missed in the first half? You could nit pick all the negatives, but why not just bask in the wonderful entertainment the team is giving us?
By the way Lowe looked about the best player we have come across this season. |
None of those examples were down to lack of effort or laziness, which is what I accused Ladapo of, rightly or wrongly. That's the difference. I think out of all aspects of being a footballer, lack of effort is one of more criticize worthy offences isn't it? [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 23:19]
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| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 23:01 - Nov 12 with 789 views | Sarge |
I’m not really sure what Ladapo offers anymore. His work rate is way lower than Jackson’s, his pace much lower than Jackson, his anticipation and reading of the game much worse than Hirst and his finishing and ball control need improvement. Jackson on for Hirst to see out games every time for me. At least he’d keep the press on from the front and give us an out-ball when we need one. | | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 23:04 - Nov 12 with 778 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 22:47 - Nov 12 by Garv |
None of those examples were down to lack of effort or laziness, which is what I accused Ladapo of, rightly or wrongly. That's the difference. I think out of all aspects of being a footballer, lack of effort is one of more criticize worthy offences isn't it? [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 23:19]
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For what it's worth I don't think Ladapo is lazy. I think he's a bit limited. He does carry a threat but his strengths are more his strength and power. Decent hold up player but can't run us up the pitch and the channels like Hirst can.
He is one who has given so much to the cause but ultimately for him and us he'll likely move on at some point soon. | | | |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 23:14 - Nov 12 with 757 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolfy at the back, who in attack? on 20:11 - Nov 12 by Nutkins_Return |
I don't really agree with the OP but suggesting someone is racist based on that OP is disgusting mate. You don't know him (neither do I) and he's assessing (wrongly or rightly) a professional athlete. So laziness is an attribute. The main other subject of laziness/lack of concentration in our side has probably been Woolfy (again probably unfairly). Even in that match Wolfie has had plenty questioning him for that last goal and being lazy.
If there was a pattern of comments time and again by the same poster about black players then you might have cause. But this is really unpleasant and a bit of a societal issue where people think they can just tag someone with a pretty serious label with next to nothing but a gut feeling to back it up. Poor. |
I didn't say they were racist. I said they used racist tropes, which is what they did. | |
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