| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 07:17 - Sep 28 with 2887 views | itfcjoe |
Hardly a backtrack if keeping VaT on fees and removing business rates relief |  |
|  |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 07:21 - Sep 28 with 2870 views | Darth_Koont |
These people don’t believe in anything. That’s their greatest strength and our biggest problem.
Utterly unfit for purpose as an opposition let alone a government in 2024. Having the Conservatives as an even more unfit choice isn’t a selling point, when we’re essentially still talking about bumbling along in the same rut as before. |  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:04 - Sep 28 with 2779 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 07:17 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
Hardly a backtrack if keeping VaT on fees and removing business rates relief |
Gift aid on donations to private schools will remain, so I wonder if this offers some scope for avoidance or mitigation. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 8:05]
|  | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:19 - Sep 28 with 2727 views | itfcjoe |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:04 - Sep 28 by DJR |
Gift aid on donations to private schools will remain, so I wonder if this offers some scope for avoidance or mitigation. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 8:05]
|
I was talking about this with friends last night as a few have kids they are considering sending to private school - wonder whether a fairer compromise would be come form of salary sacrifice like childcare vouchers for those wanting to send kids to private school.
As with anything re private schools, it's not ideal - but it becomes another area where 'hard-working people' are squeezed as a huge amount of people on PAYE give up lots to send kids to private school, but workplace earned income seems to be the only thing ever taxed which helps the very wealthy avoid it | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:25 - Sep 28 with 2704 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:19 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
I was talking about this with friends last night as a few have kids they are considering sending to private school - wonder whether a fairer compromise would be come form of salary sacrifice like childcare vouchers for those wanting to send kids to private school.
As with anything re private schools, it's not ideal - but it becomes another area where 'hard-working people' are squeezed as a huge amount of people on PAYE give up lots to send kids to private school, but workplace earned income seems to be the only thing ever taxed which helps the very wealthy avoid it |
It IS a backtrack, because charitable status brings with it significant tax benefits. Equally though, it is probably a pragmatic position, more likely to succeed, more likely to win an election etc.
What the rabid corbynite wing of the labour supporters don't get is that pragmatism is, regardless of what Starmer or others would really like to see, is essential to actually get things done and make them work.
What many tory supporters dont get is that it is utterly pathetic to call it an "attack" on private schools, or to say it penalises hard working aspirational people. Anyone sending a child to private school is already much wealthier than the average and likely able to bear the cost of what is, like it or not, a luxury. |  | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:34 - Sep 28 with 2679 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:19 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
I was talking about this with friends last night as a few have kids they are considering sending to private school - wonder whether a fairer compromise would be come form of salary sacrifice like childcare vouchers for those wanting to send kids to private school.
As with anything re private schools, it's not ideal - but it becomes another area where 'hard-working people' are squeezed as a huge amount of people on PAYE give up lots to send kids to private school, but workplace earned income seems to be the only thing ever taxed which helps the very wealthy avoid it |
I imagine this will have no impact on public schools proper (eg. Ipswich School) because of the wealth of those who send their children to such schools.
It is the less prestigious private schools that I assume will be more affected because my understanding is that the parents tend to be less affluent. Indeed, speaking recently to someone who works as a bursar at such a school, I understand the cost of living crisis is having an adverse effect on some of the parents' ability to pay.
Although I believe it no longer exists, Everton House School in Humber Doucy Lane springs to mind as an example of such a school. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 8:37]
| | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:35 - Sep 28 with 2670 views | Darth_Koont |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:25 - Sep 28 by redrickstuhaart |
It IS a backtrack, because charitable status brings with it significant tax benefits. Equally though, it is probably a pragmatic position, more likely to succeed, more likely to win an election etc.
What the rabid corbynite wing of the labour supporters don't get is that pragmatism is, regardless of what Starmer or others would really like to see, is essential to actually get things done and make them work.
What many tory supporters dont get is that it is utterly pathetic to call it an "attack" on private schools, or to say it penalises hard working aspirational people. Anyone sending a child to private school is already much wealthier than the average and likely able to bear the cost of what is, like it or not, a luxury. |
“rabid corbynite wing”
Try social democrats.
And I don’t see anyone or anything as pragmatic as social democracy when addressing the challenges facing the UK. | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:37 - Sep 28 with 2651 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:35 - Sep 28 by Darth_Koont |
“rabid corbynite wing”
Try social democrats.
And I don’t see anyone or anything as pragmatic as social democracy when addressing the challenges facing the UK. |
No. People who don't understand the need to deal in reality, and who undermine labour's attempts to remove the most dangerous and obnoxious government this country has ever seen out of dogmatic allegiance to Corbyn, are definitely rabid. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:44 - Sep 28 with 2622 views | itfcjoe |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:34 - Sep 28 by DJR |
I imagine this will have no impact on public schools proper (eg. Ipswich School) because of the wealth of those who send their children to such schools.
It is the less prestigious private schools that I assume will be more affected because my understanding is that the parents tend to be less affluent. Indeed, speaking recently to someone who works as a bursar at such a school, I understand the cost of living crisis is having an adverse effect on some of the parents' ability to pay.
Although I believe it no longer exists, Everton House School in Humber Doucy Lane springs to mind as an example of such a school. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 8:37]
|
I'd say, and went to Ipswich School many moons ago, that the level of wealth there compared to other schools in the county was a fair bit lower (i.e.Culford, Woodbridge, Fram, etc) and then when went off to uni when you compared it to the public schools in the home counties they were on a different stratosphere.
Hard to tell when there, but looking back at the time felt like, whilst obviously some mega wealthy, most peoples parents were working (generally both of them) and in what I'd consider well paid jobs mainly - but stuff that would be in that £100-150k range now - which is obviously still massive wages.....but the fees now with VAT will be £18k per year per child.....with the tax paid on income it's an absolutely gigantic chunk of money and really leaves it only for those with family wealth and inheritance, or those making huge sacrifices.
I think it will be the straw that breaks the camels back for many, but then they probably can't really afford it anyway if it is - but there will need to be an expectancy that more children will fall into state education which has a cost to the public purse which may even swallow up a lot of the savings | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:45 - Sep 28 with 2608 views | Darth_Koont |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:37 - Sep 28 by redrickstuhaart |
No. People who don't understand the need to deal in reality, and who undermine labour's attempts to remove the most dangerous and obnoxious government this country has ever seen out of dogmatic allegiance to Corbyn, are definitely rabid. |
You’re talking about party politics and an increasingly self-interested and detached bubble.
The problem is that this isn’t a game and we’re actually electing politicians to serve communities’ and the country’s interests. The major parties are woefully inadequate on that score and have been for far too long.
I’m not going to endorse a new set of right-wing non-entities just because the current ones are sh1t. | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:47 - Sep 28 with 2599 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:37 - Sep 28 by redrickstuhaart |
No. People who don't understand the need to deal in reality, and who undermine labour's attempts to remove the most dangerous and obnoxious government this country has ever seen out of dogmatic allegiance to Corbyn, are definitely rabid. |
Looks like Starmer is following the pragmatism of the 2017 Corbyn manifesto which only promised to remove the VAT exemption on private school fees. | | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:51 - Sep 28 with 2576 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:44 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
I'd say, and went to Ipswich School many moons ago, that the level of wealth there compared to other schools in the county was a fair bit lower (i.e.Culford, Woodbridge, Fram, etc) and then when went off to uni when you compared it to the public schools in the home counties they were on a different stratosphere.
Hard to tell when there, but looking back at the time felt like, whilst obviously some mega wealthy, most peoples parents were working (generally both of them) and in what I'd consider well paid jobs mainly - but stuff that would be in that £100-150k range now - which is obviously still massive wages.....but the fees now with VAT will be £18k per year per child.....with the tax paid on income it's an absolutely gigantic chunk of money and really leaves it only for those with family wealth and inheritance, or those making huge sacrifices.
I think it will be the straw that breaks the camels back for many, but then they probably can't really afford it anyway if it is - but there will need to be an expectancy that more children will fall into state education which has a cost to the public purse which may even swallow up a lot of the savings |
You are obviously better qualified to know about Ipswich School than me, and I suppose I was equating it to the sort of public schools in the area of Kent where I live (Tonbridge School, Sevenoaks School) which clearly are in a different league.
As it is, and whilst I dislike the private school system, I do wonder why Labour have chosen this to be one of the few areas where it is prepared to increase taxes, especially given the prospect of some people reverting to the state system at a time when the secondary school population will in any event dramatically increase in the next few years.
Far better from my point of view, to consider taxes which focus on wealth, which is dramatically undertaxed.
Sadly though, the direction on travel in this area is going in the wrong direction, with talk of the abolition or reduction of inheritance tax, which no doubt Labour would feel obliged to follow. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:01]
| | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:58 - Sep 28 with 2539 views | Herbivore |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:37 - Sep 28 by redrickstuhaart |
No. People who don't understand the need to deal in reality, and who undermine labour's attempts to remove the most dangerous and obnoxious government this country has ever seen out of dogmatic allegiance to Corbyn, are definitely rabid. |
I wasn't really a fan of Corbyn and I think the current Labour party are a spineless and vapid bunch offering nothing like a genuine alternative. |  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:07 - Sep 28 with 2504 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Only just seen this thread. So may as well put Reeves doing a Starmer here too...
“Here’s the truth: private schools are not charities. And so we will end that exemption and put that money straight into our state schools. That is what a Labour government will do.” |  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:16 - Sep 28 with 2461 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:58 - Sep 28 by Herbivore |
I wasn't really a fan of Corbyn and I think the current Labour party are a spineless and vapid bunch offering nothing like a genuine alternative. |
Depends what you mean by an alternative, or if you really think that Labour will deliberately undermine our businesses and trash out international standing, run public services into the ground to historically low level, weaponise foreigners and attack our fundamental human rights, and wage continual culture wars instead of governing, etc. If there’s any evidence they’ll do all that, then fair enough they probably are a continuity party. If not, they offer an alternative. It might not be an alternative that everyone wants, but it’s still an alternative. And there are other parties as well of course.
(PS. I don’t disagree they come across as spineless and severely uninspiring). [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:17]
|  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:23 - Sep 28 with 2429 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:35 - Sep 28 by Darth_Koont |
“rabid corbynite wing”
Try social democrats.
And I don’t see anyone or anything as pragmatic as social democracy when addressing the challenges facing the UK. |
Tell us again about the electoral success of the Corbynite wing/left/social democrats/call them what you like, and how brilliantly they addressed all of those challenges facing the UK [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:47]
|  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:32 - Sep 28 with 2406 views | cooperd5 |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 08:37 - Sep 28 by redrickstuhaart |
No. People who don't understand the need to deal in reality, and who undermine labour's attempts to remove the most dangerous and obnoxious government this country has ever seen out of dogmatic allegiance to Corbyn, are definitely rabid. |
downvoted in error!
It is this - Labour need to oust the worst most-corrupt govt in memory and need to maintain a practical approach to policy to do so.
Schools as a charity is an absolute joke which allows and maintains the "them and us" in education to continue - as a policy is is wrong but it needs to be stepped back in stages to avoid this vitriol "attack" cobblers from the tory media |  | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:34 - Sep 28 with 2396 views | Herbivore |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:16 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Depends what you mean by an alternative, or if you really think that Labour will deliberately undermine our businesses and trash out international standing, run public services into the ground to historically low level, weaponise foreigners and attack our fundamental human rights, and wage continual culture wars instead of governing, etc. If there’s any evidence they’ll do all that, then fair enough they probably are a continuity party. If not, they offer an alternative. It might not be an alternative that everyone wants, but it’s still an alternative. And there are other parties as well of course.
(PS. I don’t disagree they come across as spineless and severely uninspiring). [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:17]
|
On what we've seen so far they aren't really offering much different on immigration, have they even said unequivocally that they'd ditch the Rwanda plan and the legislation that supports it? Whilst they probably won't stoke the narrative as enthusiastically, I don't see them really changing or challenging it. They're offering very little on improving the parlous state of public services and have created a position where they've given themselves very little wiggle room to do so. The international reputation and culture war stuff ultimately boils down to a lot of noise, doesn't it? It's not something that reduces NHS waiting lists, stops teachers leaving the profession within 18 months, or provides a functioning model of social care. Don't get me wrong, they'll be less deeply unpleasant than the current incumbents, but that's a very, very low bar. | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:38 - Sep 28 with 2376 views | Blueschev |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:16 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Depends what you mean by an alternative, or if you really think that Labour will deliberately undermine our businesses and trash out international standing, run public services into the ground to historically low level, weaponise foreigners and attack our fundamental human rights, and wage continual culture wars instead of governing, etc. If there’s any evidence they’ll do all that, then fair enough they probably are a continuity party. If not, they offer an alternative. It might not be an alternative that everyone wants, but it’s still an alternative. And there are other parties as well of course.
(PS. I don’t disagree they come across as spineless and severely uninspiring). [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:17]
|
Of course they'll be better than the current shower. My fear is that their spinelessness and lack of vision will result in nothing much getting done to resolve the issues faced by the country. I think we should aspire to more than just stopping things getting much worse. |  | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:40 - Sep 28 with 2362 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:34 - Sep 28 by Herbivore |
On what we've seen so far they aren't really offering much different on immigration, have they even said unequivocally that they'd ditch the Rwanda plan and the legislation that supports it? Whilst they probably won't stoke the narrative as enthusiastically, I don't see them really changing or challenging it. They're offering very little on improving the parlous state of public services and have created a position where they've given themselves very little wiggle room to do so. The international reputation and culture war stuff ultimately boils down to a lot of noise, doesn't it? It's not something that reduces NHS waiting lists, stops teachers leaving the profession within 18 months, or provides a functioning model of social care. Don't get me wrong, they'll be less deeply unpleasant than the current incumbents, but that's a very, very low bar. |
It's the same old problem of seeming to be left with a choice of the least worst, isn't it? Like choosing between Jewell and Keane. You can see why a lot of people don't vote. All pretty depressing
I'm hanging oton the the hope that a Labour government would get things working again, if not as well as pre-2010 then at least undo some of the damage. As far as I can see at the moment, that's all they've really got.
*Sigh* | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:42 - Sep 28 with 2350 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:38 - Sep 28 by Blueschev |
Of course they'll be better than the current shower. My fear is that their spinelessness and lack of vision will result in nothing much getting done to resolve the issues faced by the country. I think we should aspire to more than just stopping things getting much worse. |
Agreed, we should aspire to it. Trouble is, that option's not on the table for the next election. I don't know how we get to that point either. | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:49 - Sep 28 with 2291 views | giant_stow |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:42 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed, we should aspire to it. Trouble is, that option's not on the table for the next election. I don't know how we get to that point either. |
Everyone's making reasonable points here - I just think we're in an emergency situation where we need to stop the bleeding - we can worry about the long term cure after that's happened.
I also have a feeling that once in power, Labour may start to get a little more bold (they're clearly playing the game, which may not be lovely, but its whats they have to do. They're already great at backtracking, as the the thread title says) |  |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:53 - Sep 28 with 2270 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:34 - Sep 28 by Herbivore |
On what we've seen so far they aren't really offering much different on immigration, have they even said unequivocally that they'd ditch the Rwanda plan and the legislation that supports it? Whilst they probably won't stoke the narrative as enthusiastically, I don't see them really changing or challenging it. They're offering very little on improving the parlous state of public services and have created a position where they've given themselves very little wiggle room to do so. The international reputation and culture war stuff ultimately boils down to a lot of noise, doesn't it? It's not something that reduces NHS waiting lists, stops teachers leaving the profession within 18 months, or provides a functioning model of social care. Don't get me wrong, they'll be less deeply unpleasant than the current incumbents, but that's a very, very low bar. |
This may make GB's blood boil, but it would be nice if Labour were as unequivocal on Braverman's speech as this.
| | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 10:04 - Sep 28 with 2220 views | giant_stow |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:53 - Sep 28 by DJR |
This may make GB's blood boil, but it would be nice if Labour were as unequivocal on Braverman's speech as this.
|
I struggle to take a nationalist seriously on such matters. Before Darth barks, yeah I know: 'civic nationalism' and all that.
I missed Labour's reaction to the Braverman - they must have said something? | |
| |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 10:09 - Sep 28 with 2189 views | Darth_Koont |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 09:23 - Sep 28 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Tell us again about the electoral success of the Corbynite wing/left/social democrats/call them what you like, and how brilliantly they addressed all of those challenges facing the UK [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 9:47]
|
Tell us again why voting in more self-interested right-wingers is going to change the underlying issues facing the UK.
Re: a genuine Opposition getting elected, there's always an uphill battle against the right-leaning establishment (the one in the Labour party most of all). It doesn't mean we should hide behind party politics and the democratic deficit of the FPTP system when talking about the right policies for the UK and its people. Or doesn't that actually matter?
It's this constant brainless sliding right that's apparently in the name of the voters that's making the UK a worse place to live and grow up in. Yet as Corbyn showed when he moved the party back to an actual centre-left position there were millions of voters attracted back to the party after it had been shedding votes ever since 1997.
Pragmatically, offering those kinds of policies to bring us more in line with our neighbours needs to be part of the political debate. When they aren't, there's nothing at all to our politics except some shadowy notion of market-based growth as the panacea for everything socio-economic and ignorant populism. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
