| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 14:52 - Sep 28 with 812 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 10:04 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
I struggle to take a nationalist seriously on such matters. Before Darth barks, yeah I know: 'civic nationalism' and all that.
I missed Labour's reaction to the Braverman - they must have said something? |
Despite the adverse media coverage they get, the SNP is actually the most progressive party in the UK, but leaving that aside, Stephen Flynn is speaking for many in Scotland, where according to recent polling 59 per cent have a positive attitude to immigration.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/westminster/23787966.poll-two-fifths-sco
The contrast with England and Wales on this issue couldn't be greater, and maybe it helps to have a progressive party leading the debate. But the difference on this issue also appears to be reflected in the fact that Scotland voted to remain.
As regards the Labour Party response, it has kept its head down on Government rhetoric on immigration generally, and in the case of Braveman's anti-immigrant speech, merely picked up on the anti-LGBT+ aspect of what she said. |  | |  |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:01 - Sep 28 with 769 views | giant_stow |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 14:38 - Sep 28 by Herbivore |
There's nothing to counter. You're comparing the Tories blaming immigrants - who are literally powerless - for the country's problems with the SNP blaming the actual UK government, whose responsibility it is to run the country. It's such laughable false equivalence that ridicule is the most apt response. |
I'm I typing in German or something?!
In the post you replied to I gave you a concrete example of power the Scottish parliament has. Its not some kind of parish council and to present it as such is a bit disingenuous.
The Scottish parliament is 'running the country' too, yet blames Westminster for anything that goes wrong - that where the equivalence and othering is. |  |
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:02 - Sep 28 with 762 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 13:58 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
Some power is held at Westminster, yeah obviously, but devolution has left the Scottish Parliament with plenty of its own power too - enough to raise income taxes for example, but as far I'm aware, the SNP have only dared bump it a little.
Blaming 'Westminster' is code designed to speak to their target audience, just like 'uncontrolled immigration' does the same job for Tories. It passes the buck for their own failings onto an external bogeyman for everyone to hate - this is what nationalists do everywhere. |
To take the example I raised, immigration, this is an area where Scotland desperately needs more people because it has always suffered from emigration and has the lowest birth rate in the UK.
But this is not an area over which the Scottish government has control, so to categorise the SNP's stance as blaming Westminster seems to me to miss the point. What the SNP are saying is that if the country were independent, they could set an immigration policy which benefited the country, rather than being saddled by a policy (like many others) which the people of Scotland did not vote for. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:05]
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:09 - Sep 28 with 743 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 14:08 - Sep 28 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘Right wingers’ - complete nonsense
2nd paragraph - yes it matters, but so does, you know, actually getting elected and being able to do things in practice. Otherwise you’re just smugly typing words on a messageboard about how wonderful you are and everyone else is wrong
Sliding right - we’ve slid right as we have had a succession of Conservative governments, no slide bigger than the one we’ve seen since they were able to decisively win the last election. Labour winning the next election would be a move to the left, a repeat of the last election would see us slide ever further right
Millions attracted back - not sure you’ve noticed but in this social media age our electoral system has become even more of a two party system than it was before. In that context gaining voters is inevitable but useless when the other party gains significantly more. Corbyn’s Labour lost 2 elections, the second catastrophically
Pragmatically… - pragmatically, we need an opposition that is able to appeal to voters and actually win an election, otherwise everything is just empty grandstanding |
It is the case that the centre has moved much to the right over the last few decades, so compared to what was considered left and right wing in the 70s and 80s, I think it is not incorrect to regard the current incarnation of the Labour Party as right wing. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:10]
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:17 - Sep 28 with 725 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 14:52 - Sep 28 by DJR |
Despite the adverse media coverage they get, the SNP is actually the most progressive party in the UK, but leaving that aside, Stephen Flynn is speaking for many in Scotland, where according to recent polling 59 per cent have a positive attitude to immigration.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/westminster/23787966.poll-two-fifths-sco
The contrast with England and Wales on this issue couldn't be greater, and maybe it helps to have a progressive party leading the debate. But the difference on this issue also appears to be reflected in the fact that Scotland voted to remain.
As regards the Labour Party response, it has kept its head down on Government rhetoric on immigration generally, and in the case of Braveman's anti-immigrant speech, merely picked up on the anti-LGBT+ aspect of what she said. |
They are so progressive that the person who came second in their recent leadership election, with 41% of the members votes, is a right wing religious zealot whose views on abortion and LGBT rights would make most neo con republican blush. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:21]
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:19 - Sep 28 with 725 views | giant_stow |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:02 - Sep 28 by DJR |
To take the example I raised, immigration, this is an area where Scotland desperately needs more people because it has always suffered from emigration and has the lowest birth rate in the UK.
But this is not an area over which the Scottish government has control, so to categorise the SNP's stance as blaming Westminster seems to me to miss the point. What the SNP are saying is that if the country were independent, they could set an immigration policy which benefited the country, rather than being saddled by a policy (like many others) which the people of Scotland did not vote for. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:05]
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Firstly, thanks for engaging in a civil manner - appreciated.
While I see your point that the Scottish Parliament would like a more open immigration policy, its actually another good example of how the SNP ought to take more responsibility for its own failings.
We had record numbers of immigration last year... Why aren't they going to Scotland? Is there something putting them off? Could more be done to entice them away from other parts of the UK? | |
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:25 - Sep 28 with 706 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 14:52 - Sep 28 by DJR |
Despite the adverse media coverage they get, the SNP is actually the most progressive party in the UK, but leaving that aside, Stephen Flynn is speaking for many in Scotland, where according to recent polling 59 per cent have a positive attitude to immigration.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/westminster/23787966.poll-two-fifths-sco
The contrast with England and Wales on this issue couldn't be greater, and maybe it helps to have a progressive party leading the debate. But the difference on this issue also appears to be reflected in the fact that Scotland voted to remain.
As regards the Labour Party response, it has kept its head down on Government rhetoric on immigration generally, and in the case of Braveman's anti-immigrant speech, merely picked up on the anti-LGBT+ aspect of what she said. |
I'm not sure it's fair to lump Welsh Government in with Westminster. Rather than me just copy and pasting, if you would like to you can read about the WG approaches here, including the vision for making Wales a place of sanctuary and all they've done to oppose/criticise the direction of Westminster. https://research.senedd.wales/research-articles/wales-and-the-uk-s-changing-immi (from ahlf way down the page, 'Developing a distinctive Welsh approach...).
The Welsh population is broadly as supportive as the Scots when it comes to thinking immigration is a positive too (upper 50s to 60s percent, depending on the exact framing of the question). BUT, anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise, so there's certainly no room for complacency. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:26]
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:29 - Sep 28 with 691 views | Herbivore |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:01 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
I'm I typing in German or something?!
In the post you replied to I gave you a concrete example of power the Scottish parliament has. Its not some kind of parish council and to present it as such is a bit disingenuous.
The Scottish parliament is 'running the country' too, yet blames Westminster for anything that goes wrong - that where the equivalence and othering is. |
Just over two thirds of Scottish tax receipts end up in the treasury in Westminster. Westminster recently blocked Scottish gender recognition legislation. The devolved government may not be a parish council, but it's miles away from being the self-determining government of a sovereign state, which is what those who call for independence would like it to be.
You may as well be posting in another language to be honest because what you're saying makes feck all sense. It is not 'othering' to locate problems at source. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:31]
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:36 - Sep 28 with 667 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:25 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not sure it's fair to lump Welsh Government in with Westminster. Rather than me just copy and pasting, if you would like to you can read about the WG approaches here, including the vision for making Wales a place of sanctuary and all they've done to oppose/criticise the direction of Westminster. https://research.senedd.wales/research-articles/wales-and-the-uk-s-changing-immi (from ahlf way down the page, 'Developing a distinctive Welsh approach...).
The Welsh population is broadly as supportive as the Scots when it comes to thinking immigration is a positive too (upper 50s to 60s percent, depending on the exact framing of the question). BUT, anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise, so there's certainly no room for complacency. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:26]
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Apologies that I got that wrong. I suppose I was basing what I said on the Brexit vote, where disappointingly for me the Welsh voted to leave. | | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:39 - Sep 28 with 656 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:36 - Sep 28 by DJR |
Apologies that I got that wrong. I suppose I was basing what I said on the Brexit vote, where disappointingly for me the Welsh voted to leave. |
Yeah the poorer areas seem to have heavily backed leaving the EU as they were told the lie that the EU were the cause of their problems despite those areas receiving lots of money from the EU that the UK Govt would never have allocated).
The Welsh Govt itself though has been pretty progressive on immigration. And on a range of other things. The latest is the dropping of the lowest national speed limit to 20 mph. It's causing a pretty large inevitable backlash from certain political quarters. | |
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| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:53 - Sep 28 with 647 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:19 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
Firstly, thanks for engaging in a civil manner - appreciated.
While I see your point that the Scottish Parliament would like a more open immigration policy, its actually another good example of how the SNP ought to take more responsibility for its own failings.
We had record numbers of immigration last year... Why aren't they going to Scotland? Is there something putting them off? Could more be done to entice them away from other parts of the UK? |
Thanks for your comment. I always try to engage in a civil manner and never resort to abuse or downvote people's comments.
As regards your question, the following link contains the following passages, the third of which suggests the post-Brexit UK-wide immigration system does not fit Scottish needs.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotland-future-opportunities-challenges-scotl
Historically, Scotland experienced negative net migration for decades, with more people leaving Scotland than arriving. That legacy means that Scotland today is more reliant on migration than other parts of the UK.
Over the past twenty years, Scotland's migration flows have changed, with outward migration to the rest of the UK (rUK) declining, and inward migration from overseas rising significantly in the 2000s. Net migration from both rUK and overseas have now been consistently positive for over a decade.
In 2019, the Expert Advisory Group on Migration and Population was commissioned by the Scottish Government to consider the impact on Scotland's economy, communities and public services of the UK Government's proposals for the new immigration system. The Group estimated the impact of the plans would be a 50-80% reduction in net EU migration to Scotland after 2020, and an overall reduction in overseas net migration to Scotland of 30-50%. These changes would disproportionately affect our rural areas which would be likely to see an even more significant reduction in migration. They would also have a pronounced gender effect with proportionally fewer women able to meet the salary threshold. | | | |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:59 - Sep 28 with 625 views | DJR |
| Guess it was only a matter of time Labour backtracked on private schools. on 15:39 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah the poorer areas seem to have heavily backed leaving the EU as they were told the lie that the EU were the cause of their problems despite those areas receiving lots of money from the EU that the UK Govt would never have allocated).
The Welsh Govt itself though has been pretty progressive on immigration. And on a range of other things. The latest is the dropping of the lowest national speed limit to 20 mph. It's causing a pretty large inevitable backlash from certain political quarters. |
I agree the Welsh government is pretty progressive but I am not sure it has been as effective on the ground as the Scottish government. Maybe this is in part due to lesser powers. | | | |
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