| Central midfield.... 09:05 - Jun 5 with 18160 views | itfcjoe |
.....feels like a real problem area for me.
Sam Morsy (31) - Turns 32 at start of the season, spent most of his career at top of L1 or bottom end of Champ but is undoubtedly our best midfielder. His game seems to have gone to another level under McKenna, but what role will he find when he isn't the best player on the pitch every week?
Mass Luongo (30) - Turns 31 at start of season, as above really with level he has played at, but also has had serious injury issues.
Those 2 look far and away above the rest of our midfielders, but think at their age and with their careers to date, there must be serious questions asked about stepping up.
Lee Evans (28) - Is 29 before the season starts, for me he lacks the athletic ability in his game to play in the Championship, and when he has found himself at that level previously hasn't impressed.
Dom Ball (27) - Is 28 before season starts, the much maligned on here Andre Dozzell played more minutes in Championship than Ball for QPR in his last season there - his 3 seasons there saw the minute equivalent of 27 games, 24 games and then 14 games.
Pan Camara (26) - Relatively fast rise through non league and then L2, but really it's one good season in L1, which has been followed up by around 15 months of being unfit which is going to be hard to recover from and play a lot without issues.
Youngsters
Idris El Mizouni (22) - 23 at start of the season, of the back of a brilliant loan spell, but a big jump from L2 to the Championship and unless he comes in and blows socks off McK in pre season then he is likely to be elsewhere next season either permanently or on loan
Cameron Humphreys (19) - Fantastic prospect, and one I expect to see kept around the squad next season despite talk of a loan spell but won't be one who can play week in-week out in the midfield
We play a very dominant form of football, and that often relies on having players who are better than their direct competitors - I worry looking at that midfield that Morsy may be the only one who can step up and do that (and that is far from guaranteed) with potential for Camara to do so (but that is no more than hope rather than expectation).
Morsy aside though, I wouldn't be worried if we lost all our other senior midfielders as they all feel like squad options who can be relied on in specific situations and for a dozen or so games.
The step up is going to be huge, and think we need serious investment there and can see us going out and spending big fees on a couple of options there. Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up something like:
1 MEGA SIGNING
2 Morsy
3 Jack Taylor or similar
4 Luongo
5 Humphreys
With the rest either sold or loaned out |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:12 - Jun 5 with 8416 views | RobTheMonk |
I think Morsy will be fine as he looks to be playing the best football of his life and has an unbelievable engine on him.
Luongo is a solid Champ player IF he stays fit.
Ball is an intriguing one. QPR were sad to see him go but he's been largely injured since he's been with us.
Camara is a complete unknown.
Evans probably lacks the dynamism.
And then the younger lads could potentially do with a League 1 loan.
Interesting times. |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 09:12 - Jun 5 with 8411 views | oldburian |
A very good sensible assessment. |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 09:18 - Jun 5 with 8358 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Completely agree.
I think Luton are a good case study for this. Don't get me wrong Luton were a good team before Marvellous Nakamba joined them, but he took them to a whole new level. Luton didn't lose a league game where he played 90 mins for them and previous to that they had chopped and changed a bit in midfield. But bringing in a player Villa paid just short of 15 million for, they just started running all over teams. Winning every midfield battle.
Morsy is a superb player and excelled last season, but there are no guarantees he is a top championship player, he's played in that league before and wasn't considered a top player at that level, a good player, yes, a top player, not quite. But as you say McKenna has improved him massively. But these questions are why I'm very reluctant to believe we can be a playoff team this season.
A big signing needed in that department. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:20]
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| Central midfield.... on 09:21 - Jun 5 with 8313 views | yorkshireblue |
That group starts to look very thin if Morsy & Camara miss time for the AFCON. Potentially El Mizouni as well I guess, but I'm not sure how close he is to getting a recall and only has the solitary cap to his name back from 2019.
Even more so if Luongo doesn't sign his deal. |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 09:30 - Jun 5 with 8195 views | Metal_Hacker |
For me this is a massive transfer window . Not necessarily the quantity of players we need but quality in vital positions . Essentially we need to look at the spine throughout which for the most will win or lose you games
CB required (left sided)
Central Midfield ( mobile / athletic)
Striker
They for me are critical and have to be of a "calibre" to be able to sustain and improve the current starting XI
The midfield is interesting for sure but I can't help but think Humprheys would be better getting a loan until Jan in League One with some football as opposed to hovering around a Champ first team just picking up match day experience and training with them
Like we always say , KMcK knows best |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:33 - Jun 5 with 8192 views | nodge_blue |
Im not sure that the age of Morsey or Luongo is an issue quite yet. Players are much fitter and conditioned these days. And they both played to a high level and back to back games at the end of last season.
Evans - isn't he as good as say Skuse? He's like Skuse but with a forward pass? First quarter of last season he was arguably our best player. Its was injuries that held him up last year and not lack of form.
Humphries needs to beef up a bit.
Who knows the incomings. But with Aluko retained Im wondering whether there will be as many as we thought. I can see one coming in - Taylor maybe. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:38 - Jun 5 with 8119 views | EssexBlueITFC |
| Central midfield.... on 09:33 - Jun 5 by nodge_blue |
Im not sure that the age of Morsey or Luongo is an issue quite yet. Players are much fitter and conditioned these days. And they both played to a high level and back to back games at the end of last season.
Evans - isn't he as good as say Skuse? He's like Skuse but with a forward pass? First quarter of last season he was arguably our best player. Its was injuries that held him up last year and not lack of form.
Humphries needs to beef up a bit.
Who knows the incomings. But with Aluko retained Im wondering whether there will be as many as we thought. I can see one coming in - Taylor maybe. |
Evans is a great option to have, a lot of fans have forgot how good he was at the start of the season before injury. Football fans have very short memories. | | | |
| Central midfield.... on 09:38 - Jun 5 with 8118 views | Guthrum |
On the succession angle (given the ages of those players) I'd have thought we'd be wanting to loan out El Mizouni, rather than outright selling. However, from the financial perspective, we may in reality need to do the latter.
Central midfield is quite key to how we play. The effects of Evans being injured and Luongo coming in last season showed that (Humphreys performed very well, but he didn't provide the solidity of the other two in the earlier and later periods). |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:41 - Jun 5 with 8089 views | Hipsterectomy |
I was listening to a QPR podcast the other day and they were saying how poor of a footballing league the championship is. You get the odd team like Norwich under Farke or Burnley, but it’s not really a fast passing league and teams give up on that pretty quickly in games that aren’t going well for them.
I imagine we’ll focus a lot more on not having the ball and how to deal with that, but I think we’re mostly fine, especially if Camara is as good as it’s hoped he is. Depends what our ambitions are. |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:44 - Jun 5 with 8052 views | SomethingBlue |
This is spot on — we have way too much for L1 in that area but, given the ages, not enough to be around the Champ top 10. Am certain we'll enhance and maybe it'll need a tough decision or two; we need someone aged between 23-26 really, which I guess puts Taylor in the frame but I'd think we can do better. The five you suggest at the bottom look ideal to me — but how do we move the others on? | |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:49 - Jun 5 with 7943 views | Guthrum |
| Central midfield.... on 09:33 - Jun 5 by nodge_blue |
Im not sure that the age of Morsey or Luongo is an issue quite yet. Players are much fitter and conditioned these days. And they both played to a high level and back to back games at the end of last season.
Evans - isn't he as good as say Skuse? He's like Skuse but with a forward pass? First quarter of last season he was arguably our best player. Its was injuries that held him up last year and not lack of form.
Humphries needs to beef up a bit.
Who knows the incomings. But with Aluko retained Im wondering whether there will be as many as we thought. I can see one coming in - Taylor maybe. |
Aluko has been retained, but that isn't the same as making it into the registered squad for next season. It may be a case of hanging onto some of our cards for now, to see how the play goes over the summer. | |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:52 - Jun 5 with 7891 views | DanTheMan |
| Central midfield.... on 09:44 - Jun 5 by SomethingBlue |
This is spot on — we have way too much for L1 in that area but, given the ages, not enough to be around the Champ top 10. Am certain we'll enhance and maybe it'll need a tough decision or two; we need someone aged between 23-26 really, which I guess puts Taylor in the frame but I'd think we can do better. The five you suggest at the bottom look ideal to me — but how do we move the others on? |
"but how do we move the others on"
This has been my concern.
- Camará I can't see us getting money for. Maybe a loan?
- Evans... see above really.
- Ball has been injured a lot and hasn't looked that great when he's played. Didn't pay anything for him but we also won't get anything for him.
If we can move on those three that'd be ideal really but can't see it happening. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:53 - Jun 5 with 7877 views | ParisBlue |
Morsy in last year of contract, its unclear whether we have an option for a further year.
Same with Chaplin. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:54 - Jun 5 with 7848 views | Naylorsrightboot |
Brilliant assessment. Would agree with much of that. Morsey would be the only one l cared about to do a job, but as you say even he has never lit the Championship up, although he is a different player under KmK. I think we need one or two big signings in this department. |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 09:54 - Jun 5 with 7841 views | BiGDonnie |
Heard a rumour of Leighton Clarkson. CM from Liverpool who was on loan at Aberdeen last season. Him and Taylor would be quality alongside Morsy and Luongo. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 09:54 - Jun 5 with 7846 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Central midfield.... on 09:33 - Jun 5 by nodge_blue |
Im not sure that the age of Morsey or Luongo is an issue quite yet. Players are much fitter and conditioned these days. And they both played to a high level and back to back games at the end of last season.
Evans - isn't he as good as say Skuse? He's like Skuse but with a forward pass? First quarter of last season he was arguably our best player. Its was injuries that held him up last year and not lack of form.
Humphries needs to beef up a bit.
Who knows the incomings. But with Aluko retained Im wondering whether there will be as many as we thought. I can see one coming in - Taylor maybe. |
Evans vs Skuse is comparing apples and oranges though. Different skill sets. Skuse during his peak years could get around the pitch and was pretty dynamic. Evans isn't. And the Championship is a league where dynamism and athleticism has to be a given. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:55]
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| Central midfield.... on 10:10 - Jun 5 with 7533 views | dirtyboy |
Are we back in the 80s?
I watch a lot of IronMan and we're seeing guys in their late thirties and early forties post incredible times, people who just look after themselves and have the knowedlge and technology to prolong their career (and learn).
I'm not concerned one bit by Morsy/Luongo age.....just whether they're actually good enough.
Let's remember that some players just work in systems better than others, so whilst none of our players have really done really well at Championship level (apart from mayne Walton/Chaplin) that's not a complete guide as to what we'll expect this time around.
Of course, it could all go horribly wrong.
I do think we'll sign someone in that area, as ultimately, one or two will end up on limited game time as age/injuries do crop up and then you'll get the better player retain their place.
Midfield is a nice problem area imo, maybe just missing one piece to be exchange for someone in the list. |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 10:16 - Jun 5 with 7453 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Central midfield.... on 09:54 - Jun 5 by BiGDonnie |
Heard a rumour of Leighton Clarkson. CM from Liverpool who was on loan at Aberdeen last season. Him and Taylor would be quality alongside Morsy and Luongo. |
Like that a lot.
Exceptional for Aberdeen. | |
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| Central midfield.... on 10:16 - Jun 5 with 7452 views | ITFC_Jenx |
Whi would you like to see as the mega signing Joe? |  | | |
| Central midfield.... on 10:18 - Jun 5 with 7412 views | Steve_M |
Yep, broadly agree with that. It's definitely an area where we need significant reinforcement over the Summer.
Morsy is the only contracted midifelder who looks good enough to step up at the moment, although I would put Luongo there too if he does sign.
Evans has been a disappointment, six weeks of decent form at the start of last season isn't enough from the last two years and the slowness of the Morsy-Evans partnership was a a big part of our poor run of away form in January.
I would be reluctant to see El Mizouni leave permanently, its quite telling in terms of his potential which clubs are looking at him at the moment. That's not enough to play for us next season but his sale we might regret in a year or two. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 10:24 - Jun 5 with 7334 views | ParisBlue |
| Central midfield.... on 10:18 - Jun 5 by Steve_M |
Yep, broadly agree with that. It's definitely an area where we need significant reinforcement over the Summer.
Morsy is the only contracted midifelder who looks good enough to step up at the moment, although I would put Luongo there too if he does sign.
Evans has been a disappointment, six weeks of decent form at the start of last season isn't enough from the last two years and the slowness of the Morsy-Evans partnership was a a big part of our poor run of away form in January.
I would be reluctant to see El Mizouni leave permanently, its quite telling in terms of his potential which clubs are looking at him at the moment. That's not enough to play for us next season but his sale we might regret in a year or two. |
I've always liked the look of El-Miz in the small number of appearences he's had with us. I'd favour him ahead of Evans and I think he's more similar to Luongo (who made Morsy better). | |
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| Central midfield.... on 10:52 - Jun 5 with 7095 views | jayessess |
| Central midfield.... on 09:44 - Jun 5 by SomethingBlue |
This is spot on — we have way too much for L1 in that area but, given the ages, not enough to be around the Champ top 10. Am certain we'll enhance and maybe it'll need a tough decision or two; we need someone aged between 23-26 really, which I guess puts Taylor in the frame but I'd think we can do better. The five you suggest at the bottom look ideal to me — but how do we move the others on? |
Are Morsy and Luongo's ages an immediate concern? 30-32 is still a competitive age for the majority of centre midfielders. Jack Cork, Oliver Norwood and John Fleck were all in that age bracket for the promoted teams.
Provided the player looks robust, strikes me as an age where you need to start thinking about medium term squad planning, rather than expecting a really immediate drop off. |  |
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| Central midfield.... on 11:03 - Jun 5 with 6992 views | bournemouthblue |
We have a Championship midfield for sure but if it lacks anything in the middle it's legs, that's the one thing that would worry me, not the physicality or the ability to pass and move
It's getting caught up the field and broken on, you'd love a Kante type in there who can hunt people down and mitigate that risk, if we are lacking anything in there really
Dom Ball is a big physical unit, Camara, who really knows what we will get there if we see him again
Humphreys and El Miz probably aren't quite ready yet
Who knows, I'm sure McKenna will have it covered
Edit: I've done what a lot of people have done and forgotten Lee Evans but I do think there's a case for a mobile midfielder who can break up play, that would give us something a bit more defensively
I think both Luongo and Morsy are excellent holding midfielders, Luongo is a very good footballer too, he offers more than Morsy going forward in many ways [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 11:06]
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| Central midfield.... on 11:12 - Jun 5 with 6881 views | the_toff |
| Central midfield.... on 10:10 - Jun 5 by dirtyboy |
Are we back in the 80s?
I watch a lot of IronMan and we're seeing guys in their late thirties and early forties post incredible times, people who just look after themselves and have the knowedlge and technology to prolong their career (and learn).
I'm not concerned one bit by Morsy/Luongo age.....just whether they're actually good enough.
Let's remember that some players just work in systems better than others, so whilst none of our players have really done really well at Championship level (apart from mayne Walton/Chaplin) that's not a complete guide as to what we'll expect this time around.
Of course, it could all go horribly wrong.
I do think we'll sign someone in that area, as ultimately, one or two will end up on limited game time as age/injuries do crop up and then you'll get the better player retain their place.
Midfield is a nice problem area imo, maybe just missing one piece to be exchange for someone in the list. |
I agree about them working in different systems. There's always circumstances that lead to players spending time in different sides and divisions too. I never buy in to this 'he's a league 1 player or he's a league 2 player' thing which seems a bit basic. I imagine Bournemouth fans might have said the same about the team Howe took up and players like Harry Artur and Steve Cook who became Premier League regulars. They went up 2 divisions with them and neither had any experience at those levels before. Sunderland fans probably said it this time last year.
Form, system, coaching, confidence. Lots of factors on top of ability that contribute to performances. Morsy is incredibly fit, tee total, very professional. He won't be doing a job in the Championship in 5 years but there's no reason to think he won't be able to step up this season.
We're probably 1 addition short in the middle but the same or worse is true up front. As it stands that's a bigger problem area with Ladapo and Pigott are most experienced forwards. | | | |
| Central midfield.... on 11:16 - Jun 5 with 6847 views | tractordownsouth |
Agreed, which is why I think selling El Mizouni would be short sighted. If he's willing to accept another year on loan with a new contract, the pathway will be there for him in a year's time. |  |
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