| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week 04:57 - May 24 with 35279 views | The_Romford_Blue |
1,000 Animal Rising protesters turning up to ruin the Derby at Epsom. Track has applied for an injunction to ban them or they’ll ruin it but even if they get the injunction (unlikely I’d imagine), it’ll be a nightmare stopping them with Epsom’s course layout. Epsom, unlike Aintree, is an open track and getting on to ruin it will not be that difficult unfortunately. It’s part of a public footpath when racing isn’t on to the side of the course so can be accessed if people want to quite easily. They’ve specifically said today in writing and in a meeting with the course that they plan to turn up and ruin both days by sitting on the track.
So that’ll be another sporting event I’m in attendance that these tw*ts ruin. That’s if I even get there with the now added train strike announced conveniently three days ago. Two days off work, train tickets, race day tickets at £140 a pop per day and it’ll probably end up cancelled anyway because it’s 2023 and nothing I like doing goes without someone sitting in the way trying to ruin it.
I doubt TWTD is the place to moan about this though as, like with the Snooker World Championship last month, the racing isn’t something the majority on here enjoy so it’s ok. They’ll no doubt target a town game soon just to really make me despise them. Protest for protest sake. There’s always something someone somewhere disagrees with and will then protest about and attempt to ruin.
What a depressing time to be a human being. [Post edited 24 May 2023 5:03]
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:48 - May 24 with 1892 views | Buhrer |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 15:31 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
From memory that thread got deleted because Callis made it about veganism and it became a 15 pager mostly about vegans. I bowed out before halfway in that.
My opinion of the suffragettes is exactly the same as it was back then? That their cause was great, but we obviously the right thing to be hoping for and they had as much right to vote as men. Obviously. But that by choosing to risk the life of a horse by jumping in front of it at 40mph, she decided her protest was more important than the life of the horse. And for that I disagreed with her decision to go into the track that day. |
Her life, and a horses life (died doing what it loved?) versus the emancipation of all women and girls within her society, and future generations. You don't think her protest was more important? |  | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:49 - May 24 with 1886 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:24 - May 24 by clive_baker |
Is it 1 in 500 race horses will meet that fate and 499 retire in tact? Or 1 in 500 runners? If it's the latter and a horse runs 50 races in it's career, then it has a 1 in 10 change of dying at the hands of the sport?
Not knocking the stat just keen to understand it for my own benefit really. |
No it’s not per race, it’s per career.
So the rest retire | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:50 - May 24 with 1867 views | jaykay |
like others i'm not anti protester or racing. couple of thing thou would the grand national fences still be high as the were or the use of the whip still be in use without the protests.
i would love them to go to the moors and protest against the wanting murder of grouse and also protest about pheasant and game birds shoots |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:50 - May 24 with 1869 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:36 - May 24 by clive_baker |
I don't like those odds much. If the average horse runs 40 races in it's career it has a 1 in 10 chance of dying at the hands of the sport.
Interesting that the rate for flat racing was 0.1% and for jump racing 0.5%. Feels a bit of a no brainer to reform the sport and do away with jump racing. |
No it’s per the horse not per race.
If a horse runs 50 times, it definitely has less than a 1/10 chance of dying. Lots of NH horses run that often | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:52 - May 24 with 1856 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:25 - May 24 by Herbivore |
So it's okay for anti-horse racing protestors to protest, so long as they don't disrupt the thing they are protesting against? What about anti-hunt protestors? Should they similarly protest against hunting in a way that doesn't disrupt the hunt? |
Seeing as twice now you’ve ignored my reply to you suggesting I only care about betting and Ipswich, despite me giving you a very clear example against that, I feel that until you give that a fair response, why should I continue on this? | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:00 - May 24 with 1813 views | Swailsey |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:14 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Ahh so you’ve ended your pretending to have me on ignore spell. Well done |
Yeah! I took you off a year ago. I’m glad I did for this gooodness. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:15 - May 24 with 1749 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:50 - May 24 by jaykay |
like others i'm not anti protester or racing. couple of thing thou would the grand national fences still be high as the were or the use of the whip still be in use without the protests.
i would love them to go to the moors and protest against the wanting murder of grouse and also protest about pheasant and game birds shoots |
This article is now 12 years old and I've posted it at least 3 times before on here, but this debate keeps cropping up on TWTD with everyone apparently having forgotten, so ...
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt |  |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:23 - May 24 with 1717 views | NeedhamChris |
It's hardly based in science is it - I'd suggest it's probably not worth bringing up so many times. |  |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:31 - May 24 with 1695 views | wellsy700 |
You losing a few quid pales in comparison to the suffering those animals have to endure |  |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:33 - May 24 with 1687 views | NeedhamChris |
To add a bit to my post - if you think an "experiment" from such an impartial source (oh...racing correspondent) is evidence worth quoting then there's little hope for this conversation. It's not a case of people forgetting, it's that if this is your best go to for supporting evidence then you're on very weak ground.
I'd have more respect for those who agree it is unkind to the horses but enjoy it anyway - it's better then putting hands over your ears and going "la la la la la"
There's enough articles the other way....
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/11/12/first-conclusive-evidence
https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/blog-time-for-horseracing-to-follow-science-about-whi
And one last point, it would be really easy for a scientist to conduct an experiment of hitting a horse and watching it's neurological pain reaction. Why do you think the BHA or others haven't done this if they're so sure? | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:35 - May 24 with 1668 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 16:52 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Seeing as twice now you’ve ignored my reply to you suggesting I only care about betting and Ipswich, despite me giving you a very clear example against that, I feel that until you give that a fair response, why should I continue on this? |
Sorry, I missed your reply. It's good that you care about your friends and I hope your friend gets the treatment she needs. However, I kind of assume that everyone cares about the people closest to them unless they are genuine sociopaths, as human beings we're kind of wired to care about our family and closest friends, they are part of what I'd call your bubble. Beyond that, it's never been clear that you care about other stuff. Anyone protesting for or against any cause you usually scorn, you don't seem understand or care about why people go on strike. You just generally seem to not give much of a sh*t about stuff that doesn't immediately and directly impact you. That doesn't preclude you caring about your friend and helping them, but it does rather limit your scope for showing understanding and compassion for wider issues. |  |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:36 - May 24 with 1669 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:33 - May 24 by NeedhamChris |
To add a bit to my post - if you think an "experiment" from such an impartial source (oh...racing correspondent) is evidence worth quoting then there's little hope for this conversation. It's not a case of people forgetting, it's that if this is your best go to for supporting evidence then you're on very weak ground.
I'd have more respect for those who agree it is unkind to the horses but enjoy it anyway - it's better then putting hands over your ears and going "la la la la la"
There's enough articles the other way....
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/11/12/first-conclusive-evidence
https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/blog-time-for-horseracing-to-follow-science-about-whi
And one last point, it would be really easy for a scientist to conduct an experiment of hitting a horse and watching it's neurological pain reaction. Why do you think the BHA or others haven't done this if they're so sure? |
Sorry are you saying the whip hurts? Have you felt a racing whip? Do you understand it’s as much the noise the whip makes that increases the horses speed? I feel like you’re very much bias here if you’re quoting the RSPCA who are totally anti racing and always have been. They’ve been proven to have been wrong on so many things racing too | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:38 - May 24 with 1644 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:36 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Sorry are you saying the whip hurts? Have you felt a racing whip? Do you understand it’s as much the noise the whip makes that increases the horses speed? I feel like you’re very much bias here if you’re quoting the RSPCA who are totally anti racing and always have been. They’ve been proven to have been wrong on so many things racing too |
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Whether you argue that's physical or psychologically can be debated, but yes I am.
Are you going to give an opinion on why the BHRA have never conducted an experiment to prove this once and for all? | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:41 - May 24 with 1618 views | Bellevueblue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 15:53 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
There are definitely more deaths in jump racing than flat. That is true. The huge majority of horses have long and happy careers without even a single fall though, starting their careers at 4/5 and retirement at 13/14. Should jumps racing be banned, the entire national hunt breeding industry is done. You don’t breed thoroughbred horses for stuff that isn’t racing. And whilst it’s a huge shame when a horse dies, what would be far crueller is ending the industry altogether and all of the other horses who are denied long and happy lives. Thousands a year. |
What is this nonsense? It's not cruel to end a career of a race horse that isn't racing yet, and it's not even cruel to end the career of a race horse who is racing. It'll still live and be ridden (albeit not for money)
That's the same BS argument of "well you shouldn't go vegan cause what about the cows in the fields, they'd all die" | | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:41 - May 24 with 1616 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:35 - May 24 by Herbivore |
Sorry, I missed your reply. It's good that you care about your friends and I hope your friend gets the treatment she needs. However, I kind of assume that everyone cares about the people closest to them unless they are genuine sociopaths, as human beings we're kind of wired to care about our family and closest friends, they are part of what I'd call your bubble. Beyond that, it's never been clear that you care about other stuff. Anyone protesting for or against any cause you usually scorn, you don't seem understand or care about why people go on strike. You just generally seem to not give much of a sh*t about stuff that doesn't immediately and directly impact you. That doesn't preclude you caring about your friend and helping them, but it does rather limit your scope for showing understanding and compassion for wider issues. |
Well in all honesty I think that’s just hugely untrue. You’re affectively painting me out as a selfish person and eBay couldn’t be further from the truth. I care about a lot of things and I’m a good person.
I’m also curious about two points here:
1) ‘Anyone protesting for or against any cause you usually scorn’. That’s not true. I literally said in this thread they protest every year peacefully outside the track and I carry on walking. They have every right to protest. They have no right to go on the track though. That’s my issue.
2) ‘You don’t seem to understand or care about why people go on strike’. I don’t understand that line at all. I’ve not complained in the OP about any strikes? I acknowledged the train strikes but that was purely to highlight that I’m still going to the racing despite this and that yet still these protesters will ruin the event. I’ve no issue with them striking. I’d do the same if a strike occurred in my industry. | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:43 - May 24 with 1600 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:41 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Well in all honesty I think that’s just hugely untrue. You’re affectively painting me out as a selfish person and eBay couldn’t be further from the truth. I care about a lot of things and I’m a good person.
I’m also curious about two points here:
1) ‘Anyone protesting for or against any cause you usually scorn’. That’s not true. I literally said in this thread they protest every year peacefully outside the track and I carry on walking. They have every right to protest. They have no right to go on the track though. That’s my issue.
2) ‘You don’t seem to understand or care about why people go on strike’. I don’t understand that line at all. I’ve not complained in the OP about any strikes? I acknowledged the train strikes but that was purely to highlight that I’m still going to the racing despite this and that yet still these protesters will ruin the event. I’ve no issue with them striking. I’d do the same if a strike occurred in my industry. |
The problem with point 1) is that you're effectively saying people should only protest in a way that causes no disruption to the event they're protesting against - making it hugely unlikely to succeed. | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:43 - May 24 with 1595 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:38 - May 24 by NeedhamChris |
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Whether you argue that's physical or psychologically can be debated, but yes I am.
Are you going to give an opinion on why the BHRA have never conducted an experiment to prove this once and for all? |
How do you know they haven’t? They have loads of data highlighting how it doesn’t hurt the horse. | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:46 - May 24 with 1561 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:43 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
How do you know they haven’t? They have loads of data highlighting how it doesn’t hurt the horse. |
Find me one piece of data supporting that then (that isn't a horse racing correspondent taking part in an S&M session).
After all - I'm assuming that as you care about the horses welfare so much you'll have done your due diligence on it. [Post edited 24 May 2023 17:47]
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:47 - May 24 with 1546 views | Bellevueblue |
If you're hellbent on watching animals race I've got plenty of snails in the backgarden, happy to line them up and stream it for you.
Although with the slow speed, little risk to their lives and no one to whip them it might not be quite as enthralling. | | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:47 - May 24 with 1543 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:38 - May 24 by NeedhamChris |
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Whether you argue that's physical or psychologically can be debated, but yes I am.
Are you going to give an opinion on why the BHRA have never conducted an experiment to prove this once and for all? |
Curse the RSPCA, citing actual research to back up their claims. | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:49 - May 24 with 1535 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:41 - May 24 by Bellevueblue |
What is this nonsense? It's not cruel to end a career of a race horse that isn't racing yet, and it's not even cruel to end the career of a race horse who is racing. It'll still live and be ridden (albeit not for money)
That's the same BS argument of "well you shouldn't go vegan cause what about the cows in the fields, they'd all die" |
Ok so let’s say racing gets cancelled then. The protestors win and we wake up tomorrow and racing has been permanently banned. What will the 50,000 thoroughbred racehorses in the UK be doing going forward?
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:52 - May 24 with 1512 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:49 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Ok so let’s say racing gets cancelled then. The protestors win and we wake up tomorrow and racing has been permanently banned. What will the 50,000 thoroughbred racehorses in the UK be doing going forward?
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They've made enough money from them - they would just need to look after them while they enjoy the rest of their lives.
Or it could be phased out - it isn't that hard. [Post edited 24 May 2023 17:53]
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:52 - May 24 with 1503 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:47 - May 24 by Herbivore |
Curse the RSPCA, citing actual research to back up their claims. |
Ha, evil sods aren't they. | |
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| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:55 - May 24 with 1465 views | ReusersTown |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 15:08 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Not sure a horse has died at Epsom in the last 1000 runners in all honesty. Horses day more in the fields by the track than they do in racing there. |
Well the big difference there is that in one of those set of circumstances they are dying for your entertainment! | | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:59 - May 24 with 1437 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:46 - May 24 by NeedhamChris |
Find me one piece of data supporting that then (that isn't a horse racing correspondent taking part in an S&M session).
After all - I'm assuming that as you care about the horses welfare so much you'll have done your due diligence on it. [Post edited 24 May 2023 17:47]
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‘As things stand, in terms of concrete, non-speculative, empirical evidence on the specific issue of pain, opponents of the padded whip have failed to supply substantive scientific evidence that the padded whip causes considerable harm and discomfort to the horse.Footnote26 There are all kinds of speculative claims and attempts at tangential types of analysis and data mining which are ‘re-packaged’ as ‘evidence’ on the on the issue of pain. Footnote27 However, one has to wonder at the repeated failure to furnish any relevant evidence specifically on the question of pain and in particular the physical effects of the padded whip.’
From someone with no association to horse racing. Suggests there is zero evidence that the whip causes pain to a horse. Literally zero. So if the antis can’t produce evidence as to why it ‘hurts’ despite being told repeatedly that it does not, then why he should we bend over backwards pandering to them with extra tests? If the racing peoples tests aren’t enough for you then some data suggesting otherwise that isn’t as biased against it from the likes of PETA are as you claim those in racing are for it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19406940.2021.2005662 | |
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