| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC 18:33 - Jul 12 with 3369 views | Bogblue |
First time this has ever happened?
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 18:52 - Jul 12 with 2484 views | Swansea_Blue |
Is he going to go full Trump on us? |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 18:52 - Jul 12 with 2484 views | wkj |
One last twist of the 'i do what I like' knife, if true. |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:16 - Jul 12 with 2371 views | Mullet |
He really is the most shambolic piece of vermin isn't he? How people supported him or even got on their knees for him so gleefully, is testament to how badly we need to reform this country and reclaim it from these entitled scumbags. |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:39 - Jul 12 with 2292 views | Bogblue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 18:52 - Jul 12 by wkj |
One last twist of the 'i do what I like' knife, if true. |
He's scored a right pair of golden ducks there I think, uncommited voters will feel cheated & think that tory candidates in the leadership race should have had clout & advised him better | | | |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:58 - Jul 12 with 2224 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 18:52 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Is he going to go full Trump on us? |
I have some sympathy with the government on their stance.
This is shameless politicking from Labour by including Johnson as part of the VOC. Completely unnecessary.
He's resigned as Tory leader and a contest is underway to chose his successor, who will become PM when they win.
Had Labour submitted a standard VOC then convention would be that the government had to accept a debate n the motion.
It's very un-Starmer-like as he is usually a very serious politician who doesn't play these silly games.
[Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:04]
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:04 - Jul 12 with 2182 views | Plums |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:58 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
I have some sympathy with the government on their stance.
This is shameless politicking from Labour by including Johnson as part of the VOC. Completely unnecessary.
He's resigned as Tory leader and a contest is underway to chose his successor, who will become PM when they win.
Had Labour submitted a standard VOC then convention would be that the government had to accept a debate n the motion.
It's very un-Starmer-like as he is usually a very serious politician who doesn't play these silly games.
[Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:04]
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The silly games are the Tory party navel gazing for two months whilst the nation goes to hell in a handcart. This is their mess and nobody else’s.
Johnson should be nowhere near Downing St at this stage.
The country needs a general election and a new PM in 25 days, not a (blue) rinse and repeat that takes two months. |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:06 - Jul 12 with 2173 views | StokieBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:58 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
I have some sympathy with the government on their stance.
This is shameless politicking from Labour by including Johnson as part of the VOC. Completely unnecessary.
He's resigned as Tory leader and a contest is underway to chose his successor, who will become PM when they win.
Had Labour submitted a standard VOC then convention would be that the government had to accept a debate n the motion.
It's very un-Starmer-like as he is usually a very serious politician who doesn't play these silly games.
[Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:04]
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Or alternatively the party with a massive lead in the polls thinks the public who vote in those polls might want a say in all this rather than leave it to the utter stain that is the current Tory party.
Very few people seem to want him to hang around until September so he can have a garden party for his wedding.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 22:35]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:18 - Jul 12 with 2077 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:06 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
Or alternatively the party with a massive lead in the polls thinks the public who vote in those polls might want a say in all this rather than leave it to the utter stain that is the current Tory party.
Very few people seem to want him to hang around until September so he can have a garden party for his wedding.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 22:35]
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As you well know, we don't vote for a President. We vote for a constituency MP. The party with the most constituency MP's form a government for a minimum of five years and the leader of that party becomes PM. A change of leader does not mean a general election.
If it did then in my lifetime we'd have had a general election in 1976 when Wilson resigned, another in 1990 when Thatcher was forced to step down, another in 2007 when Blair got the shove, another in 2016 when Cameron went after the referendum result and another when May realised the game was up.
In each of those occasions the incumbent stayed on until the election of a new leader.
And various political parties have had massive leads in the polls. Haven't had a general election halfway through a parliament based on opinion poll leads.
But we are straying from my point. It was a motion put forward purely for political capital. Something you often claim to dislike.
If they were serious then Labour should have put in a VOC motion on the many occasions when Johnson was found to have lied or cheated. Not when he was halfway out of the door. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:20]
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:35 - Jul 12 with 1979 views | Guthrum |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:18 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
As you well know, we don't vote for a President. We vote for a constituency MP. The party with the most constituency MP's form a government for a minimum of five years and the leader of that party becomes PM. A change of leader does not mean a general election.
If it did then in my lifetime we'd have had a general election in 1976 when Wilson resigned, another in 1990 when Thatcher was forced to step down, another in 2007 when Blair got the shove, another in 2016 when Cameron went after the referendum result and another when May realised the game was up.
In each of those occasions the incumbent stayed on until the election of a new leader.
And various political parties have had massive leads in the polls. Haven't had a general election halfway through a parliament based on opinion poll leads.
But we are straying from my point. It was a motion put forward purely for political capital. Something you often claim to dislike.
If they were serious then Labour should have put in a VOC motion on the many occasions when Johnson was found to have lied or cheated. Not when he was halfway out of the door. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:20]
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The difference in this case seems to be that nobody trusts Johnson not to try engineering a comeback or to do a bit of pre-departure wrecking. Something which wasn't feared on those previous occasions.
Given the situation, ridiculous pledges to not actually do anything and the fact Deputy PM Raab is not in the race, the latter should have taken over as caretaker for the duration. As Harriet Harman did for the Labour Party in 2010 and 2015 (tho admittedly not as acting PM). |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:39 - Jul 12 with 1928 views | pointofblue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:35 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
The difference in this case seems to be that nobody trusts Johnson not to try engineering a comeback or to do a bit of pre-departure wrecking. Something which wasn't feared on those previous occasions.
Given the situation, ridiculous pledges to not actually do anything and the fact Deputy PM Raab is not in the race, the latter should have taken over as caretaker for the duration. As Harriet Harman did for the Labour Party in 2010 and 2015 (tho admittedly not as acting PM). |
I do not know why the Conservatives didn't push him out and allow Raab to take over. They seemed to want to then it faded away when he promised to leave - they should have followed it through. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:41 - Jul 12 with 1908 views | StokieBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:18 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
As you well know, we don't vote for a President. We vote for a constituency MP. The party with the most constituency MP's form a government for a minimum of five years and the leader of that party becomes PM. A change of leader does not mean a general election.
If it did then in my lifetime we'd have had a general election in 1976 when Wilson resigned, another in 1990 when Thatcher was forced to step down, another in 2007 when Blair got the shove, another in 2016 when Cameron went after the referendum result and another when May realised the game was up.
In each of those occasions the incumbent stayed on until the election of a new leader.
And various political parties have had massive leads in the polls. Haven't had a general election halfway through a parliament based on opinion poll leads.
But we are straying from my point. It was a motion put forward purely for political capital. Something you often claim to dislike.
If they were serious then Labour should have put in a VOC motion on the many occasions when Johnson was found to have lied or cheated. Not when he was halfway out of the door. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:20]
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"A change of leader does not mean a general election."
Perhaps it should when the party in power have spending ages propping up a proven liar and are >11% behind in various opinion polls.
There is no reason for Boris to still be around, nobody trusts him hence the wording of the motion. He should be gone, end of story.
As for calling me out on political games, that's a rather high horse you're on given some recent comments on politicking.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:41]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:42 - Jul 12 with 1875 views | Guthrum |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:39 - Jul 12 by pointofblue |
I do not know why the Conservatives didn't push him out and allow Raab to take over. They seemed to want to then it faded away when he promised to leave - they should have followed it through. |
There's no real mechanism for doing so. The 1922 Committee might perhaps have been able to force Johnson out, but otherwise it relies on him resigning voluntarily - something Boris has been very unwilling to do so far. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:45 - Jul 12 with 1848 views | Mullet |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:41 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
"A change of leader does not mean a general election."
Perhaps it should when the party in power have spending ages propping up a proven liar and are >11% behind in various opinion polls.
There is no reason for Boris to still be around, nobody trusts him hence the wording of the motion. He should be gone, end of story.
As for calling me out on political games, that's a rather high horse you're on given some recent comments on politicking.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:41]
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Boris should be in jail. The fact they're umming over which bit of luxury he gets to keep in his life is disgraceful.
Regardless of who's in power the Tories have made sure the system is no longer fit for purpose. They've shown how backward and antiquated it is with their willingness to exploit everything possible.
The fact Liz didn't bother intervening shows she's of no use either. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:08 - Jul 12 with 1734 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 19:58 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
I have some sympathy with the government on their stance.
This is shameless politicking from Labour by including Johnson as part of the VOC. Completely unnecessary.
He's resigned as Tory leader and a contest is underway to chose his successor, who will become PM when they win.
Had Labour submitted a standard VOC then convention would be that the government had to accept a debate n the motion.
It's very un-Starmer-like as he is usually a very serious politician who doesn't play these silly games.
[Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:04]
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We shouldn't be in a position where silly games are necessary. Johnson has gone in disgrace and investigations into possible treason have started. He should have been relieved of his duties immediately and that useless idiot Raab put in as a caretaker until the new leader appointed.
This is not a normal succession. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:30 - Jul 12 with 1671 views | WeWereZombies |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:18 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
As you well know, we don't vote for a President. We vote for a constituency MP. The party with the most constituency MP's form a government for a minimum of five years and the leader of that party becomes PM. A change of leader does not mean a general election.
If it did then in my lifetime we'd have had a general election in 1976 when Wilson resigned, another in 1990 when Thatcher was forced to step down, another in 2007 when Blair got the shove, another in 2016 when Cameron went after the referendum result and another when May realised the game was up.
In each of those occasions the incumbent stayed on until the election of a new leader.
And various political parties have had massive leads in the polls. Haven't had a general election halfway through a parliament based on opinion poll leads.
But we are straying from my point. It was a motion put forward purely for political capital. Something you often claim to dislike.
If they were serious then Labour should have put in a VOC motion on the many occasions when Johnson was found to have lied or cheated. Not when he was halfway out of the door. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:20]
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Let's think about those circumstances when a Prime Minister resigned for a moment. If there had been a general election in 1976 then Callaghan might have stood a chance of becoming an elected Prime Minister and Thatcher just another Conservative leader who never won. I doubt that the Eighties would have been any less traumatic and they would probably have been less lucrative for many but we would have remained in the Northern European mainstream of fair, calm and stable societies once North Sea oil had settled our debts to the International Monetary Fund.
If there had been a General Election in 1990 then John Major would have been able to get to work sorting out the mess earlier, whether Labour would have avoided having Blair as leader is another matter but suppose that the response by them was to ditch Kinnock and get John Smith in. A Labour win under those circumstances would have an outstandingly progressive move for the United Kingdom - although whether Smiith's heart would have stood the strain is another matter.
The obvious 'why didn't they just go straight into a General Election ?' is Blair's resignation. Labour might not have had the landslide victory of 1997 but it would have been a much safer bet than hanging on until 2010 and losing their majority.
And if a General Election had been held when Cameron stepped down then it would have been an effective 'people's vote' on the referendum (provided that there was a clear outcome) and avoided the mess, divisions and upheaval that has dogged the last six years (and will continue to cause problems for at least the next six.)
Yep, you have convinced me - we need the change in our unwritten constitution to match the significant ousting of a leader of this state with the act of approval for a new leader that only a General Election can bring. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 21:42]
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:37 - Jul 12 with 1634 views | HARRY10 |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:18 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
As you well know, we don't vote for a President. We vote for a constituency MP. The party with the most constituency MP's form a government for a minimum of five years and the leader of that party becomes PM. A change of leader does not mean a general election.
If it did then in my lifetime we'd have had a general election in 1976 when Wilson resigned, another in 1990 when Thatcher was forced to step down, another in 2007 when Blair got the shove, another in 2016 when Cameron went after the referendum result and another when May realised the game was up.
In each of those occasions the incumbent stayed on until the election of a new leader.
And various political parties have had massive leads in the polls. Haven't had a general election halfway through a parliament based on opinion poll leads.
But we are straying from my point. It was a motion put forward purely for political capital. Something you often claim to dislike.
If they were serious then Labour should have put in a VOC motion on the many occasions when Johnson was found to have lied or cheated. Not when he was halfway out of the door. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 20:20]
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More misinformed nonsense from our duty 'rightie'
"form a government for a minimum of five years "
The fixed term Parliament Act was replaced in March 2022 - even then it was NOT for a minimum of five years
"in 2007 when Blair got the shove"
He handed over to Brown, in a long standing agreement (10 years) and 'Earlier, Mr Blair received a standing ovation from MPs in the Commons in unprecedented scenes at the end of his final prime minister's questions.'
"Labour should have put in a VOC motion "
Again wrong, any vote would have to be one of No confidence, which others will recognise as being self explanatory
from above 2He's resigned as Tory leader
my understanding is he hasn't actually resigned, he has merely stated that he would when a new leader is elected
those named were replaced within a few weeks, and it was only the mad woman who was booted out
I would add that on past form I would suggest this rightie posted up this guff out of ignorance, than any ill intent, though trying to defend the indefensible might suggest other wise | | | |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:44 - Jul 12 with 1581 views | gazzer1999 |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:30 - Jul 12 by WeWereZombies |
Let's think about those circumstances when a Prime Minister resigned for a moment. If there had been a general election in 1976 then Callaghan might have stood a chance of becoming an elected Prime Minister and Thatcher just another Conservative leader who never won. I doubt that the Eighties would have been any less traumatic and they would probably have been less lucrative for many but we would have remained in the Northern European mainstream of fair, calm and stable societies once North Sea oil had settled our debts to the International Monetary Fund.
If there had been a General Election in 1990 then John Major would have been able to get to work sorting out the mess earlier, whether Labour would have avoided having Blair as leader is another matter but suppose that the response by them was to ditch Kinnock and get John Smith in. A Labour win under those circumstances would have an outstandingly progressive move for the United Kingdom - although whether Smiith's heart would have stood the strain is another matter.
The obvious 'why didn't they just go straight into a General Election ?' is Blair's resignation. Labour might not have had the landslide victory of 1997 but it would have been a much safer bet than hanging on until 2010 and losing their majority.
And if a General Election had been held when Cameron stepped down then it would have been an effective 'people's vote' on the referendum (provided that there was a clear outcome) and avoided the mess, divisions and upheaval that has dogged the last six years (and will continue to cause problems for at least the next six.)
Yep, you have convinced me - we need the change in our unwritten constitution to match the significant ousting of a leader of this state with the act of approval for a new leader that only a General Election can bring. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 21:42]
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What a complete load of whatabouterry tosh. Rose tinted spectacles if you ask me. We have to accept the country voted for the tories, in Ipswich and Brexit here as well. This board should look to the reasons why they did that, the same for the red wall voters. Do not say because of lies because thats just plain lazy. |  | | |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:48 - Jul 12 with 1521 views | Mullet |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:44 - Jul 12 by gazzer1999 |
What a complete load of whatabouterry tosh. Rose tinted spectacles if you ask me. We have to accept the country voted for the tories, in Ipswich and Brexit here as well. This board should look to the reasons why they did that, the same for the red wall voters. Do not say because of lies because thats just plain lazy. |
But lies were a massive part of it. Denying those voters were idiots/mugs/desperate thanks to years of Tory corruption and division is just lazy. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:51 - Jul 12 with 1479 views | gazzer1999 |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:48 - Jul 12 by Mullet |
But lies were a massive part of it. Denying those voters were idiots/mugs/desperate thanks to years of Tory corruption and division is just lazy. |
Accept that opinions are like backsides, everybody has one, admittedly some on their shoulders. | | | |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:54 - Jul 12 with 1448 views | WeWereZombies |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:44 - Jul 12 by gazzer1999 |
What a complete load of whatabouterry tosh. Rose tinted spectacles if you ask me. We have to accept the country voted for the tories, in Ipswich and Brexit here as well. This board should look to the reasons why they did that, the same for the red wall voters. Do not say because of lies because thats just plain lazy. |
Have I said it was 'because of lies' ? I think you may be confusing me with one or two other posters, I was pretty angry about the situation after the 2016 referendum but the defeat of Labour (who by then had become somewhat non-committal on things European) in the latest General Election more or less settled it for me. We are out of the European Union and there doesn't seem to be any way back anytime soon (so why is no one putting their backs into a serious effort to make the Commonwealth our major interest for export and influence ?)
My speculations about what could have happened if General Elections after a Prime Minister had resigned were just that, mere speculation. No need to get worked up about them. A bit of reflection on events (as I have engaged to a fair degree after the 2016 referendum) is no bad thing if you follow the Socratic advice that the unexamined life is not worth living. | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:54 - Jul 12 with 1442 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:45 - Jul 12 by Mullet |
Boris should be in jail. The fact they're umming over which bit of luxury he gets to keep in his life is disgraceful.
Regardless of who's in power the Tories have made sure the system is no longer fit for purpose. They've shown how backward and antiquated it is with their willingness to exploit everything possible.
The fact Liz didn't bother intervening shows she's of no use either. |
I agree with your general points but the bit about the Queen is a bit silly. You and all the other republicans would be the first to have a hissy fit if she did get involved.
Anyway let's hope this is the final death throes of the Tories clinging to power. |  | | |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:54 - Jul 12 with 1438 views | StokieBlue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:44 - Jul 12 by gazzer1999 |
What a complete load of whatabouterry tosh. Rose tinted spectacles if you ask me. We have to accept the country voted for the tories, in Ipswich and Brexit here as well. This board should look to the reasons why they did that, the same for the red wall voters. Do not say because of lies because thats just plain lazy. |
Yet you won't accept that those same voters no longer support the Tories because of their behaviour both during the campaign and since? The polls are very clear on this point.
Rather a huge double-standard there but not unexpected given this total shower is probably heaven for you.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 21:55]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:55 - Jul 12 with 1431 views | Mullet |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:51 - Jul 12 by gazzer1999 |
Accept that opinions are like backsides, everybody has one, admittedly some on their shoulders. |
Shouldn't you follow your own advice?
Don't mention the most obvious and biggest flaw in my argument, is a weak way to shut down debate and save your blushes. Do you not accept that endless lies were told to push Brexit from the vacuous "take back control" to outright sums of imaginary money for the NHS trousered by corrupt Tories afterwards? | |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:56 - Jul 12 with 1401 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 20:35 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
The difference in this case seems to be that nobody trusts Johnson not to try engineering a comeback or to do a bit of pre-departure wrecking. Something which wasn't feared on those previous occasions.
Given the situation, ridiculous pledges to not actually do anything and the fact Deputy PM Raab is not in the race, the latter should have taken over as caretaker for the duration. As Harriet Harman did for the Labour Party in 2010 and 2015 (tho admittedly not as acting PM). |
Effectively Johnson has said "I am suitable to be Prime Minister until we can find a replacement". He is not resigning because he has admitted his unsuitability for office, he has resigned due to the lack of support from some figures in his party. He should have resigned with immediate effect and Raab stood in until the new leader is elected. Instead, he continues with his power craze and the Conservative Party continues to enable him.
The political bit of the vote of no confidence is that it would have put pressure on each Tory MP to make their own stance clear. Do they accept that Johnson is unfit for office or do they go with the option that he's OK because he will soon be gone? Johnson ma have taken the heat off them for now but it should be clear to the electorate that up until Pincher they have been happy to support Johnson in office. |  |
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| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:58 - Jul 12 with 1359 views | Mullet |
| Johnson's only gone & blocked the VONC on 21:54 - Jul 12 by StNeotsBlue |
I agree with your general points but the bit about the Queen is a bit silly. You and all the other republicans would be the first to have a hissy fit if she did get involved.
Anyway let's hope this is the final death throes of the Tories clinging to power. |
Not at all, the whole crux of her power and existence is as part of checks and balances but how much worse would someone have to be to see action?
I don't like FPTP either but I don't pretend it's not real or binding. Presuming that is rather odd. | |
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