| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? 12:29 - Aug 30 with 8314 views | Herbivore |
Last season when Cook came in I remember him being pretty vocal about the size of the squad and it being too bloated, especially in certain areas, and us having too many loan players. He wanted a small, quality squad that he could work hard with and get playing his way.
Fast forward to the end of the transfer window and it looks very much like we're going to have a massive squad again and, if Walton and Celina join, we'll be up at five players on loan. The start has been poor and based on Hladky's displays so far I see the need for a new keeper. But another attacking player when we already have at least 2 players for every position? Morsy looks the type of midfielder we need as our current options don't look solid enough defensively, but when we already have Carroll, Evans, and Harper signed as well as El Miz and Nolan in the first team squad you have to ask whether the first three signings were made with any great thought? Did we not foresee that we might need some steel when signing three neat and tidy players to complement the two neat and tidy players already on our books?
I'm sure this will upset some as it's become unacceptable to ask questions of the new regime, but I do find the late flurry to bolster an already very large first team squad a little unsettling. It feels very much like how the old regime operated, throw new (often temporary) additions at it if it's not working rather than showing a bit more planning and nous. I hope for all our sakes it works this time. [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 12:33]
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:36 - Aug 30 with 1118 views | Herbivore |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:34 - Aug 30 by chicoazul |
So many..? 3 or 4 and it’s Ipswich so there will always be a couple injured. |
It'll be more than that, Chico. 16 outfield players in the matchday 18 and we currently have 24 first team outfield players with a couple more possibly signing. That's a third of them that won't be invovled on a matchday if/when they're all fit. | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:40 - Aug 30 with 1111 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:19 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
There’s going to be so many not even getting in the match day 18 |
And we have to name a squad of 22 tomorrow
There will be senior players unable to play a minute of first team football until January [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 13:42]
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:40 - Aug 30 with 1113 views | Herbivore |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:35 - Aug 30 by pointofblue |
I just attempted to do a first eleven and subs bench based on your previously post which maybe exposes the issue you raise better.
Walton; Vincent-Young, Coulson, Edmundson, Burgess; Morsy, Evans; Burns, Celina, Edwards; Bonne
Subs: Hladky, Penney, Woolfenden, Harper, Fraser, Chaplin, Pigott
Missing out: Dobra, Donacien, El Mizouni, Nsiala, Nolan, Carroll, Aluko, Barry, Jackson, Norwood
In fairness the majority of them may not be surprised at this turn of events (the first five plus Aluko and Jackson). Norwood could well be told to like it or lump it too.
With the rest I think it'll be a case of rotation though. Maybe picking certain players to exploit the weaknesses in different sides. Burns clearly is unable to play more than a match a week for now, if that, possibly the same with KVY and Coulson at the moment. Celina will probably be used sparingly for a bit due to a lack of pre-season. The signing of Barry is probably the one which doesn't sit right with me at the moment - Villa surely expect him to get game time but when? Other than in the Trophy. |
Carroll hasn't come here to not even make the bench. I doubt Barry or Aluko have either. Imagine what Norwood will be like around the place if he's not even in the squad? He's enough of a bellend in normal times. I do feel the volume of signings has given us a potential headache and as I said before, on paper the quality is better but it looks as bloated a squad as the one Cook inherited. | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:41 - Aug 30 with 1099 views | Stadiumofdark |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:26 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
Sadly we can only play one player in each position though, and with your breakdown we still have spares who for now at least are at the club with no guarantee of being able to be moved on. As I said in my OP, I hope it works out but I have some reservations about the approach. We look bloated in some areas of the squad, much as we did when Cook came in and he identified that as one of our main problems. |
Luckily our injury record is so poor!! |  | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:43 - Aug 30 with 1092 views | pointofblue |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:40 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
Carroll hasn't come here to not even make the bench. I doubt Barry or Aluko have either. Imagine what Norwood will be like around the place if he's not even in the squad? He's enough of a bellend in normal times. I do feel the volume of signings has given us a potential headache and as I said before, on paper the quality is better but it looks as bloated a squad as the one Cook inherited. |
I don't think Cook will hesitate to send Norwood to the bomb squad if he causes ructions and doubt Aluko has signed for any reason than being a back up. Agree with Barry and Carroll though, but with the latter we needed bodies to cover midfield - if it wasn't him it would be someone else. We probably do need a defensive midfielder through the door too. |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:50 - Aug 30 with 1064 views | chicoazul |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:36 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
It'll be more than that, Chico. 16 outfield players in the matchday 18 and we currently have 24 first team outfield players with a couple more possibly signing. That's a third of them that won't be invovled on a matchday if/when they're all fit. |
It’ll be 24 total players with the keepers one way or another. If they’re all fit and available max of 6 will miss out. Same as every professional club in the country more or less. And like I say there will always be injuries, and the odd suspension too. No big deal. Yes Cook said the squad was too big before but I am taking that to mean the entire playing stock at that time, I imagine it will be slightly smaller in total this time. |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:51 - Aug 30 with 1064 views | MerseyBlue |
I agree that it doesn't really tally with what Cook said when he first arrived, which does put those doubts in your mind. That being said, perhaps those comments were made with the old ownership in mind.
I assume that the reason we're creating such a deep squad is so we can handle it if we get good offers for a handful, so we don't need to completely overturn the squad again.
The positive is that generally, the players we have brought in should prove to be significantly better than the ones we let go. However, while that should make Cook's job easier, the sheer volume of transfers heaps more pressure on a man who needs results quickly.
The next couple of weeks before our next game will be vital. I'm optimistic and think we will very soon snap into place, but the concern you have is certainly valid and understandable. |  |
| "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." | | Poll: | Who will be the winner? |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:52 - Aug 30 with 1050 views | chrismakin |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:50 - Aug 30 by chicoazul |
It’ll be 24 total players with the keepers one way or another. If they’re all fit and available max of 6 will miss out. Same as every professional club in the country more or less. And like I say there will always be injuries, and the odd suspension too. No big deal. Yes Cook said the squad was too big before but I am taking that to mean the entire playing stock at that time, I imagine it will be slightly smaller in total this time. |
It's almost 50% less overall in players. |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:53 - Aug 30 with 1059 views | Herbivore |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:50 - Aug 30 by chicoazul |
It’ll be 24 total players with the keepers one way or another. If they’re all fit and available max of 6 will miss out. Same as every professional club in the country more or less. And like I say there will always be injuries, and the odd suspension too. No big deal. Yes Cook said the squad was too big before but I am taking that to mean the entire playing stock at that time, I imagine it will be slightly smaller in total this time. |
We'll have at least 23 outfield players as we'll have the squad of 22 senior players plus Barry, plus possibly El Miz if he doesn't go out on loan somewhere. So we're back at a third of the first team squad not even in the matchday 18. That isn't easy to manage. | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:53 - Aug 30 with 1059 views | jayessess |
To be fair, I think Walton and Celina are both long-standing targets who we'll take permanently if everything goes to plan, rather than sudden panic acquisitions because things aren't working. We'd probably have gone without another keeper if Walton wasn't available at the right price and Hladky's form hadn't mysteriously deserted him, but I don't think him coming in is evidence of bad squad planning necessarily. |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:54 - Aug 30 with 1054 views | JakeITFC |
I’ve got no real problem with the signings of Walton and Celina as they are clearly long term targets and weren’t available until now for whatever reason, but you’d have to say that it makes the signings of Louis Barry and especially Sone Aluko look redundant.
It seems necessary to offload a good amount of footballers in the next day or so to avoid having loads of players just kicking around doing nothing once again. |  | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:10 - Aug 30 with 1010 views | chrismakin |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:53 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
We'll have at least 23 outfield players as we'll have the squad of 22 senior players plus Barry, plus possibly El Miz if he doesn't go out on loan somewhere. So we're back at a third of the first team squad not even in the matchday 18. That isn't easy to manage. |
It's completely normal. Are you struggling to find somethin negative so you're inventing some strange squad size of 11 or something? | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:18 - Aug 30 with 1006 views | OriginalMarkyP |
one thing that I don't understand about the transfer policy as a whole is the number of newbies who came in seemingly carrying knocks.
Burns, Edmundson, Chaplin, Aluko, Coulsdon, Fraser have come in carrying issues and even Celina will need time to get fit. That's a lot considering that one of our main problems over the last few seasons has been injuries and lack of fitness. [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 14:20]
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:20 - Aug 30 with 993 views | ITFCBlues |
There's lots of assumptions in this thread & since you've posted it, Dobra already appears to be on the move.
We also don't know the extent of a few of the injuries kicking around, maybe they're more serious than first Thought?
Let's wait and see where we are come 11pm tomorrow evening to make a proper conclusion. |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:24 - Aug 30 with 984 views | itfcjoe |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:18 - Aug 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
one thing that I don't understand about the transfer policy as a whole is the number of newbies who came in seemingly carrying knocks.
Burns, Edmundson, Chaplin, Aluko, Coulsdon, Fraser have come in carrying issues and even Celina will need time to get fit. That's a lot considering that one of our main problems over the last few seasons has been injuries and lack of fitness. [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 14:20]
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It can be just different standards of fitness, and wanting to get them fully fit in our system before playing them |  |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:25 - Aug 30 with 971 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 12:40 - Aug 30 by chrismakin |
sorry, did I just pi s on your fire.
Don't worry, i'll keep out now, let you have you rant. |
You really didn't. You just comtort yourself to interpret everything PC does as a wonder stroke |  | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:27 - Aug 30 with 962 views | chrismakin |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:18 - Aug 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
one thing that I don't understand about the transfer policy as a whole is the number of newbies who came in seemingly carrying knocks.
Burns, Edmundson, Chaplin, Aluko, Coulsdon, Fraser have come in carrying issues and even Celina will need time to get fit. That's a lot considering that one of our main problems over the last few seasons has been injuries and lack of fitness. [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 14:20]
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Some can be injuries but some is fitness levels, which is understandble when some havent had full programes.. Coulsen, Covid. Aluko... trials. Celina - Covid. | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:38 - Aug 30 with 950 views | Esseeja |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 13:53 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
We'll have at least 23 outfield players as we'll have the squad of 22 senior players plus Barry, plus possibly El Miz if he doesn't go out on loan somewhere. So we're back at a third of the first team squad not even in the matchday 18. That isn't easy to manage. |
You've completely missed the whole point of what Cook was talking about to me.
We had 40+ players in the first team, we've either sold or released most of them as they aren't good enough, how Dozzell and Downes got sold to championship clubs I don't know as they aren't good enough for even league one anymore for me.
We ended up keeping Woolfenden, Norwood and a returning Donacien for our first team, Holy will be an emergency backup, the rest that stayed are in the U23's looking for clubs to go to or staying and praying.
We've bought along 18, possibly 19 now, to replace the rest of the crap we had, firstly for competition, they were all probably told that competition will be key for places. This is the perfect amount for a squad, they are all going to be happy because they knew this would happen when joining as they were told it would happen. The only reason they have to not be happy is because we didn't get promoted.
I make that (4-2-3-1):
3 Goalkeepers (understandable as we needed an actual goalie)
2 left backs (Coulson and Penny)
5 CBs (Donacien can play there for cover if needed, otherwise it's 4, which is healthy competition, Edmundson, Burgess, Nsiala, Woolfenden)
2 right backs (KVY and Donacien)
3 central midfielders (we absolutely need another, and a more defensive one, if Morsy happens, make that 4, healthy for competition too, Harper, Evans, Carroll)
1-3 CAM's (Maybe Barry and Chaplin playing here if needed, but it will mainly be Fraser, most likely)
2 RW (Burns, Aluko)
2-4 LW (As seen before, if injuries are a problem, Cook's hand will be forced and Fraser will have to play here, but I can't see Edwards and Barry being dropped for him, and I see cook playing Barry here instead of ST when needed, I'll take a guess in saying that if Celina does come to Ipswich then he'll play here but I'd rather he play centrally to provide competition with Fraser)
3-4 ST (Bonne is probably guaranteed, Piggott, Norwood backup for me, can't see Chaplin being used as a ST unless a 4-4-2 is used)
That seems healthy and manageable to me, just play the top performers and drop the underperformers, if we didn't have that backup we would have to keep the underperformers in the squad. | | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:40 - Aug 30 with 940 views | Esseeja |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:38 - Aug 30 by Esseeja |
You've completely missed the whole point of what Cook was talking about to me.
We had 40+ players in the first team, we've either sold or released most of them as they aren't good enough, how Dozzell and Downes got sold to championship clubs I don't know as they aren't good enough for even league one anymore for me.
We ended up keeping Woolfenden, Norwood and a returning Donacien for our first team, Holy will be an emergency backup, the rest that stayed are in the U23's looking for clubs to go to or staying and praying.
We've bought along 18, possibly 19 now, to replace the rest of the crap we had, firstly for competition, they were all probably told that competition will be key for places. This is the perfect amount for a squad, they are all going to be happy because they knew this would happen when joining as they were told it would happen. The only reason they have to not be happy is because we didn't get promoted.
I make that (4-2-3-1):
3 Goalkeepers (understandable as we needed an actual goalie)
2 left backs (Coulson and Penny)
5 CBs (Donacien can play there for cover if needed, otherwise it's 4, which is healthy competition, Edmundson, Burgess, Nsiala, Woolfenden)
2 right backs (KVY and Donacien)
3 central midfielders (we absolutely need another, and a more defensive one, if Morsy happens, make that 4, healthy for competition too, Harper, Evans, Carroll)
1-3 CAM's (Maybe Barry and Chaplin playing here if needed, but it will mainly be Fraser, most likely)
2 RW (Burns, Aluko)
2-4 LW (As seen before, if injuries are a problem, Cook's hand will be forced and Fraser will have to play here, but I can't see Edwards and Barry being dropped for him, and I see cook playing Barry here instead of ST when needed, I'll take a guess in saying that if Celina does come to Ipswich then he'll play here but I'd rather he play centrally to provide competition with Fraser)
3-4 ST (Bonne is probably guaranteed, Piggott, Norwood backup for me, can't see Chaplin being used as a ST unless a 4-4-2 is used)
That seems healthy and manageable to me, just play the top performers and drop the underperformers, if we didn't have that backup we would have to keep the underperformers in the squad. |
Also, cook mentioned a 4-4-2 being his plan B so having 4 strikers is a good idea. | | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:41 - Aug 30 with 927 views | chrismakin |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:25 - Aug 30 by reusersfreekicks |
You really didn't. You just comtort yourself to interpret everything PC does as a wonder stroke |
Not sure how you got that from my reply tbh
It's normal for clubs to utilise transfer windows to their potential, it's not something we have been able to do, but it's normal for players to become available in the last 48 hours of a window. Nothing to do with PC that one.
Loans... it's normal, especially at league 1 level to utilise the loan system. Not PC related that one.
Barry.. young lad on loan, happens at clubs, low risk, nothing to do with PC either | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:42 - Aug 30 with 928 views | Herbivore |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:38 - Aug 30 by Esseeja |
You've completely missed the whole point of what Cook was talking about to me.
We had 40+ players in the first team, we've either sold or released most of them as they aren't good enough, how Dozzell and Downes got sold to championship clubs I don't know as they aren't good enough for even league one anymore for me.
We ended up keeping Woolfenden, Norwood and a returning Donacien for our first team, Holy will be an emergency backup, the rest that stayed are in the U23's looking for clubs to go to or staying and praying.
We've bought along 18, possibly 19 now, to replace the rest of the crap we had, firstly for competition, they were all probably told that competition will be key for places. This is the perfect amount for a squad, they are all going to be happy because they knew this would happen when joining as they were told it would happen. The only reason they have to not be happy is because we didn't get promoted.
I make that (4-2-3-1):
3 Goalkeepers (understandable as we needed an actual goalie)
2 left backs (Coulson and Penny)
5 CBs (Donacien can play there for cover if needed, otherwise it's 4, which is healthy competition, Edmundson, Burgess, Nsiala, Woolfenden)
2 right backs (KVY and Donacien)
3 central midfielders (we absolutely need another, and a more defensive one, if Morsy happens, make that 4, healthy for competition too, Harper, Evans, Carroll)
1-3 CAM's (Maybe Barry and Chaplin playing here if needed, but it will mainly be Fraser, most likely)
2 RW (Burns, Aluko)
2-4 LW (As seen before, if injuries are a problem, Cook's hand will be forced and Fraser will have to play here, but I can't see Edwards and Barry being dropped for him, and I see cook playing Barry here instead of ST when needed, I'll take a guess in saying that if Celina does come to Ipswich then he'll play here but I'd rather he play centrally to provide competition with Fraser)
3-4 ST (Bonne is probably guaranteed, Piggott, Norwood backup for me, can't see Chaplin being used as a ST unless a 4-4-2 is used)
That seems healthy and manageable to me, just play the top performers and drop the underperformers, if we didn't have that backup we would have to keep the underperformers in the squad. |
We didn't have 40+ players in the first team. That's just not true. I've covered the rest several times, if you don't agree then fair enough. | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:50 - Aug 30 with 896 views | Esseeja |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:42 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
We didn't have 40+ players in the first team. That's just not true. I've covered the rest several times, if you don't agree then fair enough. |
We had 34 first team players and some of our youngsters played in first team games so the number is closer to 40. (I'm not talking about the EFL trophy). | | | |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:58 - Aug 30 with 884 views | Herbivore |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:50 - Aug 30 by Esseeja |
We had 34 first team players and some of our youngsters played in first team games so the number is closer to 40. (I'm not talking about the EFL trophy). |
How did we have 34 first team players when we were only allowed a squad of 22 outfield players? | |
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 15:06 - Aug 30 with 859 views | wkj |
I still think we may see some going out
Dobra (pretty much confirmed on loan to Col U)
Jackson (probably will be touted for a loan if we can't sell - Possibly even a golden handshake)
Holy/Hladky (One of these two will need to go - Holy could be sold, but don't be shocked if we loan Hladky back to Salford either)
Nolan (I thought Cook might fancy him, but does he really fit in now?)
Donacien (Established himself as a squad player, but I wouldn't be shocked if he gets another loan)
Aluko - Clearly Cook and Ashton were pissed when we signed him - Expect to see him travel to Lincoln with the first team and accidently left there as the team bus pulls away in a hurry [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 15:07]
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| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 15:11 - Aug 30 with 844 views | chrismakin |
| Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? on 14:58 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
How did we have 34 first team players when we were only allowed a squad of 22 outfield players? |
Just a side point, regarding comparisons
Excluding defenders and youngsters such as Gibbs, McGavin etc
We actually had 20 'first teamers' just across midfield and strikers
+ 8 defenders, = 28 first teamers. excluding youngsters
+ 2 Gk's
https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ipswich-town/2021/2/
Also excludes Matheson for some reason, and i suppose Thomas too | |
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