| "We want Evans Out"... 07:05 - Mar 4 with 22619 views | IPS_wich |
Genuinely curious - what's to stop Evans winding us up as a going concern?
There seems to have been a number of indications over the years that he has tried to sell the club but hasn't found anyone interested.
What's to stop him in May, after 2-3 months of growing protests and vitriol aimed at him (because sadly I'm resigned to a mid-table finish), just thinking f**k it, I'm sick of subsidising this nonsense, the fans don't want me, so I'm out...and just putting us into receivership, selling Playford Road and cashing out??
Not that this should temper our protest, but just thinking about the consequences of a sustained campaign of "Evans out" |  | | |  |
| (No subject) on 10:07 - Mar 4 with 4978 views | monytowbray |
| (No subject) on 10:02 - Mar 4 by footers |
Why would he do that? There's a reason people don't openly discuss business deals of that nature. In fact, it would probably make it harder for him to sell up if he did.
The decision isn't a complex one, you're right- problem is, you still need a buyer. I'm sure ME understands that if he sold the business for a small loss he wouldn't have to keep losing millions a year on us. Not sure why fans think he doesn't know this and needs it pointing out. |
But RE: needing a buyer we go back full circle if he doesn't name a price and that's the problem.
The alternative is push for an honest answer (or investigate) why exactly he's not doing the obvious. Starting to wonder what he actually gets out of it, and I'm a skeptic on the tax offsetting front despite hearing strong arguments on both sides from in-the-know folk as to whether he does that or not. If that is the case though, serious action needs to be taken to know he's not welcome and push him out the club. |  |
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| (No subject) on 10:08 - Mar 4 with 4973 views | Oxford_Blue |
| (No subject) on 09:56 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
Well perhaps he should tell us.
Although the paperwork isn't a walk in the park the decision is not a complex one for him to sell if he accepted the short term loss (which is probably better than losing another £25m over the next 5 years to invest in another venture that may profit). |
He’s bound by confidentiality restrictions I would imagine and isn’t going to discuss third party financial offers publicly. | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:10 - Mar 4 with 4966 views | footers |
| (No subject) on 10:07 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
But RE: needing a buyer we go back full circle if he doesn't name a price and that's the problem.
The alternative is push for an honest answer (or investigate) why exactly he's not doing the obvious. Starting to wonder what he actually gets out of it, and I'm a skeptic on the tax offsetting front despite hearing strong arguments on both sides from in-the-know folk as to whether he does that or not. If that is the case though, serious action needs to be taken to know he's not welcome and push him out the club. |
But in business you don't set an asking price and then wait for people to come to you. Someone needs to come along first and then the details of the takeover are ironed out, as has happened before. It isn't eBay.
And (again) you don't know what he is or isn't doing or discussing behind the scenes. |  |
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| (No subject) on 10:11 - Mar 4 with 4963 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| (No subject) on 09:56 - Mar 4 by artsbossbeard |
So, we're better off with an owner who "get us" but will invest less per annum?
I've read that correctly, yes? |
We are in League One. We have to live within FFP.
There will be a significant drop off now in season ticket sales. Don't we also get less money now than last year as we've not just come down? So we will have to spend less money anyway.
We should be able to get out of this division without spending twice what 22 other clubs are spending don't you think? | |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 10:11 - Mar 4 with 4957 views | monytowbray |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 10:05 - Mar 4 by sotd78 |
More likely is that Evans will say sod this and just withdraw all financial support. He would simply go back to being virtually incognito. If he was vitriolic he'd sell the training ground and wind up the academy etc.
We'd then have to operate within the budget we have from income only.
That'd put us towards Division 2 probably.
The fun would really start if a breakaway fan base decided to start a new club - shades of AFC Wimbledon. We could play in Colchester probably since that's a community stadium.
Imagine that? |
Why would he remove all financial support and keep the club? If he did that he'd have truly lost his marbles as it's going to have minimum overheads regardless of how much he cuts from his budget. He can't just stop paying staff without the club folding completely. Forget L2, that would be a phoenix situation.
I think half the battle here is there are too many virtually impossible probabilities being discussed among fans that would come long after the simpler/sensible options are considered and attempted. | |
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| (No subject) on 10:15 - Mar 4 with 4950 views | artsbossbeard |
| (No subject) on 10:11 - Mar 4 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
We are in League One. We have to live within FFP.
There will be a significant drop off now in season ticket sales. Don't we also get less money now than last year as we've not just come down? So we will have to spend less money anyway.
We should be able to get out of this division without spending twice what 22 other clubs are spending don't you think? |
I agree, we have one of the strongest squads in the league but everyone tells me that Evans has underfunded thing.
I'm confused. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 10:15 - Mar 4 with 4949 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Alternatively you could take a look at Luton and Portsmouth - where fan ownership after rogue ownership has pointed out what may well be the only future for ITFC. | |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 10:17 - Mar 4 with 4942 views | shamboy |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:29 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
Agree - but that wasn’t the question. The question was whether Evans could just fold the club.
If he stops the funding, the club goes into administration pretty quickly and then this will create significant negative PR for him. Either way it’s bad for him. Either the club can’t exit administration and goes under (terrible PR for him) or it continues in a far weakened state having had points deducted and sold its best players. |
Evans owns a sufficiently high percentage of the shares that he could force the minority shareholders to sell their shareholding to him. It's a simple long-established process.
In terms of recouping his investment, his best chance, possibly his only chance, is to 'do a Norwich'. Their current season in the Premier League has netted roughly £100m. Unless their are hidden benefits deriving from the current status quo of ITFC I assume this is his aim.
In terms of negative PR, if you understood MEG's customer base you would realise that a bad reputation within the UK sports industry would have no significance whatsover. | | | |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 10:17 - Mar 4 with 4938 views | Oxford_Blue |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 10:17 - Mar 4 by shamboy |
Evans owns a sufficiently high percentage of the shares that he could force the minority shareholders to sell their shareholding to him. It's a simple long-established process.
In terms of recouping his investment, his best chance, possibly his only chance, is to 'do a Norwich'. Their current season in the Premier League has netted roughly £100m. Unless their are hidden benefits deriving from the current status quo of ITFC I assume this is his aim.
In terms of negative PR, if you understood MEG's customer base you would realise that a bad reputation within the UK sports industry would have no significance whatsover. |
How could he force the minority shareholders to sell to him??
Please do tell. | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:19 - Mar 4 with 4929 views | monytowbray |
| (No subject) on 10:15 - Mar 4 by artsbossbeard |
I agree, we have one of the strongest squads in the league but everyone tells me that Evans has underfunded thing.
I'm confused. |
He underfunds the club from top to bottom. The team isn't the only thing he should be investing in. | |
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| (No subject) on 10:25 - Mar 4 with 4915 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| (No subject) on 10:19 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
He underfunds the club from top to bottom. The team isn't the only thing he should be investing in. |
Maybe Joe or someone else can confirm a bit more but I know someone who is friends with the groundman and apparently he was livid the other week when Lambert slated the pitch because he's literally working with one hand behind his back in terms of what Evans allows him to do his job.
Seems to be the case for the physios as well, which might explain our record with long term injuries if players needing operations are being given paracetamol and a Mr Men plaster. | |
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| (No subject) on 10:36 - Mar 4 with 4896 views | haynes_toe1 |
| (No subject) on 09:51 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
He wouldn't get paid much, it's an exercise of offloading it for long term financial benefit rather than a quick profit at this point. |
The reality is very few, if any, people are now buying football clubs with the intention of making money.
The only real hope is that there's another life-long ITFC fan with billions of pounds, happy to lose it. They are generally, the only realistic options for us and we already have one. | | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 10:38 - Mar 4 with 4891 views | ClareBlue |
Is not the real issue here why a club with a 15 to 20k fan base has to have financial support to compete in the 3rd tier of football. The bottom line is football as anything other than a rich man's plaything is history. As a plaything it is subject to being discharged and not played with anymore. | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:41 - Mar 4 with 4873 views | monytowbray |
| (No subject) on 10:25 - Mar 4 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Maybe Joe or someone else can confirm a bit more but I know someone who is friends with the groundman and apparently he was livid the other week when Lambert slated the pitch because he's literally working with one hand behind his back in terms of what Evans allows him to do his job.
Seems to be the case for the physios as well, which might explain our record with long term injuries if players needing operations are being given paracetamol and a Mr Men plaster. |
Does not surprise me, the club works at a bare minimum to function. I have a few stories from staff there about how tight the club is. | |
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| (No subject) on 10:43 - Mar 4 with 4859 views | daisyisabaddog |
| (No subject) on 10:07 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
But RE: needing a buyer we go back full circle if he doesn't name a price and that's the problem.
The alternative is push for an honest answer (or investigate) why exactly he's not doing the obvious. Starting to wonder what he actually gets out of it, and I'm a skeptic on the tax offsetting front despite hearing strong arguments on both sides from in-the-know folk as to whether he does that or not. If that is the case though, serious action needs to be taken to know he's not welcome and push him out the club. |
The only people who know about the tax situation are Evans and his advisors and HMRC. That information is not required as part of the information included in the accounts. Having recently retired after 40 years in the taxation/accountancy business I would think it highly unlikely that the clubs losses are being offset elsewhere within the Evans group of companies. One of the many restrictions to group tax loss relief is that the companies concerned must be run with a view to making a profit. That's a bit of a stretch in the current situation.
I have no inside knowledge of the club or other Evans companies but the fact that he stopped charging interest on the loan to ITFC may indicate that HMRC had some input into the loss situation.
Others in this thread have suggested that minority shareholders can stop liquidation. That's nonsense I'm afraid. If Evans stops funding losses it would be illegal for the club to carry on trading. The club would be put into Administration and would then be totally under the control of the Administrator. Their job would be to find the best deal available to the creditors, which in our case would be 90% Evans. If no one could be found to guarantee to fund the losses going forward the club would be liquidated. At that point, it is possible that Evans or one of his companies may be entitled to tax relief on the loan write off. It is impossible to judge without being able to see all the group accounts but if the loan has come from an offshore company tax relief would definitely not be available.
I'm worried about the current situation but more than worried about the long term. There is a possibility that we may end up out of the Football League without a ground. We are entirely reliant on one man. Several people have said he wouldn't want to damage his good name by walking away but he doesn't actually have a good name or reputation to worry about.
The good news is that Portsmouth got through a similar situation. The bad news is that Portsmouth didn't have a landlord who wanted to sell the ground for development.
In summary, it's unlikely that Evans is getting tax relief for our losses. In the highly unlikely event that he is it's only 20% of the loss. He is also highly unlikely to benefit in terms of tax from folding the club. But there must come a point when he says enough is enough. We are now facing another year in L1 with very restrictive FFP rules. I therefore think we may be getting close to the end. Which hopefully will also be the beginning of something much better. | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:48 - Mar 4 with 4849 views | Oxford_Blue |
| (No subject) on 10:43 - Mar 4 by daisyisabaddog |
The only people who know about the tax situation are Evans and his advisors and HMRC. That information is not required as part of the information included in the accounts. Having recently retired after 40 years in the taxation/accountancy business I would think it highly unlikely that the clubs losses are being offset elsewhere within the Evans group of companies. One of the many restrictions to group tax loss relief is that the companies concerned must be run with a view to making a profit. That's a bit of a stretch in the current situation.
I have no inside knowledge of the club or other Evans companies but the fact that he stopped charging interest on the loan to ITFC may indicate that HMRC had some input into the loss situation.
Others in this thread have suggested that minority shareholders can stop liquidation. That's nonsense I'm afraid. If Evans stops funding losses it would be illegal for the club to carry on trading. The club would be put into Administration and would then be totally under the control of the Administrator. Their job would be to find the best deal available to the creditors, which in our case would be 90% Evans. If no one could be found to guarantee to fund the losses going forward the club would be liquidated. At that point, it is possible that Evans or one of his companies may be entitled to tax relief on the loan write off. It is impossible to judge without being able to see all the group accounts but if the loan has come from an offshore company tax relief would definitely not be available.
I'm worried about the current situation but more than worried about the long term. There is a possibility that we may end up out of the Football League without a ground. We are entirely reliant on one man. Several people have said he wouldn't want to damage his good name by walking away but he doesn't actually have a good name or reputation to worry about.
The good news is that Portsmouth got through a similar situation. The bad news is that Portsmouth didn't have a landlord who wanted to sell the ground for development.
In summary, it's unlikely that Evans is getting tax relief for our losses. In the highly unlikely event that he is it's only 20% of the loss. He is also highly unlikely to benefit in terms of tax from folding the club. But there must come a point when he says enough is enough. We are now facing another year in L1 with very restrictive FFP rules. I therefore think we may be getting close to the end. Which hopefully will also be the beginning of something much better. |
Stop talking sense based on professional competence and experience, backed up with reason and analysis.
The simpletons on here want a black and white world where Evans = bad, fans = good.
Evans is in a tough spot. He no doubt would sell if he could but can’t appear to be too keen as this will deter any other buyer - if one exists - who will already have to lay out millions to cover a loss making business. I suspect he is doing what he can to sell up, but as has been said before, who wants to buy a loss making business with few assets, in league one? | | | |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 10:54 - Mar 4 with 4838 views | jeera |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 09:29 - Mar 4 by IPS_wich |
I’m not one to often overtly disagree or criticise a fellow fan, but I think that’s quite delusional. I live in Australia where there is a sizeable obsession with English ‘soccer’. 9 out of 10 people who ask who I support have never heard of Ipswich. I expect it’s the same in most countries outside Europe so I doubt Evans is remotely worried about any reputational impact of winding up ITFC. |
Agree with that.
I doubt anyone outside of the footballing world would care or even notice. |  |
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| (No subject) on 10:57 - Mar 4 with 4830 views | itfcjoe |
| (No subject) on 10:07 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
But RE: needing a buyer we go back full circle if he doesn't name a price and that's the problem.
The alternative is push for an honest answer (or investigate) why exactly he's not doing the obvious. Starting to wonder what he actually gets out of it, and I'm a skeptic on the tax offsetting front despite hearing strong arguments on both sides from in-the-know folk as to whether he does that or not. If that is the case though, serious action needs to be taken to know he's not welcome and push him out the club. |
Have you ever considered he enjoys owning us, and is willing to fund the club to the levels he does so because of that?
If someone up Newmarket way can persuade Godolphin to get on board then I'm all up for that - when Evans bought the club Ken Anderson had been trying to get involved.
Most rich people have realised football isn't a good investment, and we are not a particularly attractive proposition - we'd likely only have chancers and fly-by-nights after us |  |
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| (No subject) on 11:00 - Mar 4 with 4815 views | jobsworthblue |
| (No subject) on 10:57 - Mar 4 by itfcjoe |
Have you ever considered he enjoys owning us, and is willing to fund the club to the levels he does so because of that?
If someone up Newmarket way can persuade Godolphin to get on board then I'm all up for that - when Evans bought the club Ken Anderson had been trying to get involved.
Most rich people have realised football isn't a good investment, and we are not a particularly attractive proposition - we'd likely only have chancers and fly-by-nights after us |
I admire the man he puts considerable money , time and effort into keeping the football club afloat and all he gets in return is constant abuse
I wouldn’t waste my time if I was him but shows the character of the man that he continues |  | | |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 11:05 - Mar 4 with 4804 views | Pinewoodblue |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:04 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
Thanks for the clarification, in reality I realise (as I did at the time) that my £200 bought very little, not much more than a right to attend meetings (which I never have done). However, my rights in the event of a winding up order are established under statute, specifically The Insolvency Act 1986, rather than common law, aren't they? |
You don’t own shares in the club. You own shares in the ‘runt’ company that holds a minority stake in the club. |  |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 11:40 - Mar 4 with 4765 views | WeWereZombies |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 11:05 - Mar 4 by Pinewoodblue |
You don’t own shares in the club. You own shares in the ‘runt’ company that holds a minority stake in the club. |
I do appreciate that but if all else go t1ts up the the plc, or 'runt' company as you so ungraciously put it, is all that is left. That and a ground owned by the council. And a support base. And history. |  |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 11:50 - Mar 4 with 4749 views | WeWereZombies |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 09:52 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
I was talking about his businesses and profile in the UK where he is based and his reputation.
It will be a stigma - and he will face personal abuse etc.
It’s not going to happen. |
Are you sure Marcus Evans is based in the United Kingdom?
I cannot find where marcus evans group are based but THG Sports headquarters are in Chicago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THG_Sports
People at the head office (group headquarters as far as we can given the opaqueness of the marcus evans group structure) probably think that football involves wearing a lot of padding and, if a ball does meet a foot, kicking an egg shaped object through the cup of a large wishbone that looks like it was designed by Mondrian. | |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 11:56 - Mar 4 with 4731 views | daisyisabaddog |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:51 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
Sorry, you misunderstand.
You have common law rights to resist the winding up of the company by a majority shareholder. |
You have rights to prevent the majority shareholder putting the club into liquidation. However, if Evans refuses to fund losses going forward and no immediate buyer is available then the club has to be placed in Administration. There is no alternative to that, in fact the club would be breaking the law by continuing to trade without the ability to pay its staff and creditors.
Once the club went into Administration the appointed Administrator would have full control and shareholders wishes are not relevant. The administrator would be charged with finding a buyer who was capable of finding projected losses. If that proved impossible he would liquidate the company with receipts from the sale of assets going to the creditors. The creditors in our case is Evans. Shareholders would get nothing.
Incidentally, I think you own shares in a company that owns shares in ITFC. That presumably means that your rights extend only as far as that. Either way, you can't stop Evans from putting the club into Administration. You can stop him from Liquidating the club but the Administrator would do that for him.
The downside for Evans is that if someone guaranteed to fund the losses then he may walk away with nothing. Bear in mind that anyone buying into the club would have to do so with share capital. Loans would make it difficult with FFP, as we will find out if we continue to go forward with Evans. | | | |
| (No subject) on 12:02 - Mar 4 with 4719 views | Swansea_Blue |
| (No subject) on 09:40 - Mar 4 by noggin |
There might be, at the right price. |
And therein lies the problem - ME's evaluation is presumably complicated by the debt. ME has already said he's had interest in the pass, but rejected it because the price wasn't right.
it won't be easy to find a new owner, let alone a good new one. But it certainly happens. Club takeovers are fairly common place.
We're started to become a sleeping giant (relatively), and that's going to become increasingly attractive to people the lower we drop. If ME is realistic with his asking price. |  |
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| (No subject) on 12:15 - Mar 4 with 4706 views | Ryorry |
| (No subject) on 09:42 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
Evans needs to put it up as an attractive prospect to get them. And he has the power to do so. He’s choosing not to.
If you put an item you want shot of on eBay and the price is too high so no one bids you tweak your starting bid. In this case however Evans is saying no one wants to buy the item but he's not even uploaded the listing.
Say you have a car you can no longer afford as the running costs are too much. Do you stick it on Autotrader and whack a FOR SALE sign in the window? Or do you just keep driving it around in the hope someone randomly offers to buy it from you on the off chance?
This really isn't rocket science. Hell, it's not even that complex in business terms as far as making a decision goes. "This investment is losing me money so I'm going to stop investing in it and sell it to someone else who may be able to turn it around." Sensible people with capitol do it all the time. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 9:49]
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I've never understood how he got to be a "successful business owner".
For someone who's in the hospitality & PR business, to keep your shop front in a generally dirty, shabby & uncared for state, the catering & service poor, and to ignore what your most loyal return customers in increasing numbers are saying about staying away from the place - is bizarre! |  |
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