| Turkey begin offensive on 09:39 - Oct 10 with 776 views | StokieBlue |
| Turkey begin offensive on 09:36 - Oct 10 by Guthrum |
Bases.
Even with the existence of air-to-air refuelling, it's far easier (and cheaper) if you can actually land 'planes somewhere - or dock ships. Essential if you're wanting to supply ground troops. |
Sure, it's cheaper but it's not essential as it once was. Carrier groups and bases in other location in the area can do the job just as well. It's not like the US need 1000's of planes to achieve air superiority in the area.
In fact the planes which would achieve the initial superiority, the B2's, wouldn't be allowed to land in Turkey anyway - usually for combat missions they take off and land from the US mainland.
We probably shouldn't be supplying ground troops but once again a lot of ground troops used in the ME over the last 30 years haven't walked in through Turkey. There are other options.
A stand should be taken even if it's inconvenient.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 09:40 - Oct 10 with 770 views | Guthrum |
| Turkey begin offensive on 07:23 - Oct 10 by Dubtractor |
Wtf is wrong with the world?
And with huge swathes of its population who seem to celebrate these dreadful leaders.
Genuinely depresses me. |
They celebrate these leaders because they at least say they're going to give people what they want, rather than just talking of difficulties and failing to prevent hardship. Delivery is a whole different matter, but then that's what distractions (e.g. wars, dramatic political statements, overblown infrastructure projects) are for.
Bread and circuses - only without the bread. |  |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 09:43 - Oct 10 with 765 views | Darth_Koont |
| Turkey begin offensive on 08:20 - Oct 10 by BlueBadger |
Nah, 2015 was that one, 2019 is where we're seeing the consequences.
Somewhere out there, there's a parallel universe in which Ed Milliband is capable of competently eating a bacon sandwich and none of this has happened. [Post edited 10 Oct 2019 8:21]
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A churlish and petty personal attack on a Labour leader offering an alternative to the status quo ... well, I never. |  |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 09:55 - Oct 10 with 746 views | Guthrum |
| Turkey begin offensive on 09:39 - Oct 10 by StokieBlue |
Sure, it's cheaper but it's not essential as it once was. Carrier groups and bases in other location in the area can do the job just as well. It's not like the US need 1000's of planes to achieve air superiority in the area.
In fact the planes which would achieve the initial superiority, the B2's, wouldn't be allowed to land in Turkey anyway - usually for combat missions they take off and land from the US mainland.
We probably shouldn't be supplying ground troops but once again a lot of ground troops used in the ME over the last 30 years haven't walked in through Turkey. There are other options.
A stand should be taken even if it's inconvenient.
SB |
I'm not disagreeing with your final point.
But we're talking transport aircraft. Materiel and weapons for whoever is fighting on the ground, even if not large numbers of men. They need somewhere to land and unload. Incirlik Air Base was the main distribution hub for the USAF in the Middle East (tho downgraded a bit in recent years due to political pressure).
You need fighters to patrol, rather than occasional visits from B2 bombers. They have relatively short range. If you start using air-to-air refuelling, you then need somewhere to base the tankers, which, if it's too far away, reduces their range and loiter time.
Carrier groups are quite vulnerable in enclosed waters such as the eastern Med or the Aegean. Bases in Iraq are dicey given that country's government is an ally of Iran. Those in Saudi tie the US to another dubious regime. | |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 10:00 - Oct 10 with 739 views | Guthrum |
| Turkey begin offensive on 09:15 - Oct 10 by StokieBlue |
It's a bit of a repeat of the betrayal of TE Lawrence and his promises to the Arabs in the first world war.
There are 10,000 ISIS fighters being guarded by Kurds at the moment - they are not going to keep doing that if the Turks are threatening their families - many of those fighters are going to escape to cause more havoc.
It's just idiotic all round - unfortunately that is one of Trumps hallmarks.
SB |
That's why the US military and diplomats are horrified by this decision. One on which, apparently, they were not consulted beforehand.
Hence the scramble to withdraw before any men are accidentally-on-purpose killed by the Turks. | |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 10:02 - Oct 10 with 739 views | StokieBlue |
| Turkey begin offensive on 09:55 - Oct 10 by Guthrum |
I'm not disagreeing with your final point.
But we're talking transport aircraft. Materiel and weapons for whoever is fighting on the ground, even if not large numbers of men. They need somewhere to land and unload. Incirlik Air Base was the main distribution hub for the USAF in the Middle East (tho downgraded a bit in recent years due to political pressure).
You need fighters to patrol, rather than occasional visits from B2 bombers. They have relatively short range. If you start using air-to-air refuelling, you then need somewhere to base the tankers, which, if it's too far away, reduces their range and loiter time.
Carrier groups are quite vulnerable in enclosed waters such as the eastern Med or the Aegean. Bases in Iraq are dicey given that country's government is an ally of Iran. Those in Saudi tie the US to another dubious regime. |
You say carriers are vulnerable but nobody has ever sunk one of the modern US carriers or even got close. Sure, if you're fighting Russia or China then it's an issue but against the mismatches in the ME it's really not an issue.
With a single carrier carrying 90 or so fighters and there usually being 2 around the area that is more than enough fighters to patrol. Could also easily use Cyprus for fighters if needed.
As for ground troops - it was the case in Syria that Turkey was used but for Iraq they just used bases within the country.
I just don't think the benefits of a base in Turkey are worth the cost, especially given it can all be done without it.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 10:03 - Oct 10 with 732 views | StokieBlue |
| Turkey begin offensive on 10:00 - Oct 10 by Guthrum |
That's why the US military and diplomats are horrified by this decision. One on which, apparently, they were not consulted beforehand.
Hence the scramble to withdraw before any men are accidentally-on-purpose killed by the Turks. |
You think the Turks would kill US troops?
I would have thought they were under strict orders to avoid that at all costs.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 00:30 - Oct 11 with 644 views | jeera |
Just looking at that link and reading the vile junk Erdagon and Trump come out with.
There's no balance in the world atm it seems.
The planet is determined on a mission to self-destruct it feels. |  |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 01:05 - Oct 11 with 626 views | wkj |
| Turkey begin offensive on 00:30 - Oct 11 by jeera |
Just looking at that link and reading the vile junk Erdagon and Trump come out with.
There's no balance in the world atm it seems.
The planet is determined on a mission to self-destruct it feels. |
If I were a religious man, I would say we're headed to the prophises great war following a period of great peace. Next stop, 4 wrong'uns on horses. |  |
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| Turkey begin offensive on 01:22 - Oct 11 with 625 views | Oldsmoker |
| Turkey begin offensive on 08:28 - Oct 10 by BlueBadger |
I just want my country back. You know, the one that was generous in spirit, accepting of outsiders and not stupid enough to chuck away their prosperity because foreigners STILL exist. |
I watched the Mash Report tonight (BBC2 10pm) and they said the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony that portrayed us as welcoming, diverse and happy is the polar opposite of how the world now sees us.
All thanks to the Tories. [Post edited 11 Oct 2019 1:23]
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