| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit 15:32 - Sep 4 with 6903 views | Herbivore |
And in particular whether it is actually something the public supports (the short answer is that it isn't). Also sheds light on why Alexander de Pfeffel Johnson is so desperate to blame the EU for a no deal, it makes it an easier sell: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49551893 |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:13 - Sep 4 with 1693 views | Guthrum |
Also interesting is that Corbyn is seemingly being quietly outmaneuvered by Starmer and McDonnell on the timing of an election. Maybe the Conservatives are not the only party with a coup going on (just less messy and with fewer casualties). |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:19 - Sep 4 with 1692 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:40 - Sep 4 by homer_123 |
Time, surely, to go back to the public with a binding vote that Parliament 'must' deliver.
1. Leave on May's Deal
2. Leave with No Deal
3. Remain in the EU
Parliament is still stymied - we are still no closer to getting a decision (one way of another) and this looks set to continue.
A GE won't solve it. Nor will the Brexit Delay Bill.
We must, surely, be at a point where we have to accept that our MPs cannot make a decision and therefore, it must go back to the populous? |
How do you deal with no option having an overall majority? What if Remain is outnumbered by the two Leave options combined? What if two or more options are extremely close (within fractions of a percentage point)? | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:23 - Sep 4 with 1688 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:51 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
Splitting the leave vote isn't an option, as much as I would love that. I think it needs to go back to the public with 2 options:
1) Remain
2) Leave without a deal
It can be positioned as 'we listened to the mandate to pursue Brexit which we've done. There's no workable 'deal' so we're left with no deal or no Brexit. The will of the people will be honoured in this 2nd referendum. Remain would win. We can all move on with our lives. |
There would be a heck of a lot of work to rebuild trust with Europe after all this. Plus to satisfy angry moderate Brexit types who feel they've been stitched up. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:34 - Sep 4 with 1680 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:19 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
How do you deal with no option having an overall majority? What if Remain is outnumbered by the two Leave options combined? What if two or more options are extremely close (within fractions of a percentage point)? |
You'd have to have preference voting. The lowest of the three options is eliminated and the second preference votes for those whose preferred option has been eliminated go to the remaining options to give a majority for one option. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:42 - Sep 4 with 1668 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:34 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
You'd have to have preference voting. The lowest of the three options is eliminated and the second preference votes for those whose preferred option has been eliminated go to the remaining options to give a majority for one option. |
Exercising a preference vote would presumably be optional. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:44 - Sep 4 with 1668 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:34 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
You'd have to have preference voting. The lowest of the three options is eliminated and the second preference votes for those whose preferred option has been eliminated go to the remaining options to give a majority for one option. |
Do you think the UK electorate are up to managing something that complicated?
Not being entirely serious, but I keep being told the they have difficulty with anything which doesn't involve putting a single cross in one box - tho the Scots do alright and local elections sometimes require multiple choices.
The losers would still claim to have been robbed. This fuss isn't going away for a long time. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:48 - Sep 4 with 1661 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:42 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
Exercising a preference vote would presumably be optional. |
Naturally. But the overall largest share would still win, making it in people's interest to try to affect that outcome. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:54 - Sep 4 with 1649 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:48 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Naturally. But the overall largest share would still win, making it in people's interest to try to affect that outcome. |
Would you prefer a preference vote to the system the French use to elect their President ?
Macron wouldn't have been in the last two if the left were not divided. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:59 - Sep 4 with 1644 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:54 - Sep 4 by Pinewoodblue |
Would you prefer a preference vote to the system the French use to elect their President ?
Macron wouldn't have been in the last two if the left were not divided. |
A formal two-round election would be very time-consuming. Not sure it would be more accurate than an expression of second preference in the initial vote, especially as little is likely to materially change between the two (unlike with candidates standing for a position, who can shift their position or commit gaffes). | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:38 - Sep 4 with 1624 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:44 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Do you think the UK electorate are up to managing something that complicated?
Not being entirely serious, but I keep being told the they have difficulty with anything which doesn't involve putting a single cross in one box - tho the Scots do alright and local elections sometimes require multiple choices.
The losers would still claim to have been robbed. This fuss isn't going away for a long time. |
But at least the main aim of the whole affair, unity with the Conservative party, has been achieved. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:43 - Sep 4 with 1624 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:44 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Do you think the UK electorate are up to managing something that complicated?
Not being entirely serious, but I keep being told the they have difficulty with anything which doesn't involve putting a single cross in one box - tho the Scots do alright and local elections sometimes require multiple choices.
The losers would still claim to have been robbed. This fuss isn't going away for a long time. |
They may well claim they've been robbed but it's clearly the fairest and clearest way out of this mess. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:48 - Sep 4 with 1620 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:43 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
They may well claim they've been robbed but it's clearly the fairest and clearest way out of this mess. |
And at least they can can get on with their whining, entitled victimhood withood screwing the rest of the country into the ground either. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:49 - Sep 4 with 1620 views | Guthrum |
And now he wants to stick an economic border down the Irish Sea. Not, in itself, a daft suggestion, but unlikely to go down well with the DUP.
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:57 - Sep 4 with 1604 views | DanTheMan |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:49 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
And now he wants to stick an economic border down the Irish Sea. Not, in itself, a daft suggestion, but unlikely to go down well with the DUP.
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Isn't that basically just the backstop though... |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:57 - Sep 4 with 1603 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:49 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
And now he wants to stick an economic border down the Irish Sea. Not, in itself, a daft suggestion, but unlikely to go down well with the DUP.
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He's utterly hopeless. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:00 - Sep 4 with 1602 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:49 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
And now he wants to stick an economic border down the Irish Sea. Not, in itself, a daft suggestion, but unlikely to go down well with the DUP.
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Otherwise known as the original preferred EU option, until we argued for a whole UK position.
I’m going to need meds before too long if this gets any more surreal. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:01 - Sep 4 with 1600 views | GlasgowBlue |
Although when given the choice between no deal or Corbyn they go for no deal.
Which suggests that Starmer and co should get him out pronto. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 19:01]
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:13 - Sep 4 with 1588 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:13 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Also interesting is that Corbyn is seemingly being quietly outmaneuvered by Starmer and McDonnell on the timing of an election. Maybe the Conservatives are not the only party with a coup going on (just less messy and with fewer casualties). |
Corbyn slapping Starmer down
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:21 - Sep 4 with 1577 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 18:57 - Sep 4 by DanTheMan |
Isn't that basically just the backstop though... |
Not really. The Backstop would keep the entire UK tied into a customs union, not just Northern Ireland. Avoiding any further* separation between NI and GB was a cornerstone of May's approach (largely due to the DUP).
* There is already legal, political and judicial separation. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:27 - Sep 4 with 1576 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:00 - Sep 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Otherwise known as the original preferred EU option, until we argued for a whole UK position.
I’m going to need meds before too long if this gets any more surreal. |
They'll eventually put forward something with free trade, a customs union and freedom of labour/movement. At which point Farage and the ERG will explode. | |
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| Talking of which on 19:42 - Sep 4 with 1564 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 19:27 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
They'll eventually put forward something with free trade, a customs union and freedom of labour/movement. At which point Farage and the ERG will explode. |
One of the Kinnock amendments, forcing the Government to adopt a version of the May WA amended by the cross-party discussions if they neither make their own deal nor the HoC agrees No Deal, has passed - seemingly by accident, when those opposing it failed to put up any tellers for the vote. | |
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| Talking of which on 19:47 - Sep 4 with 1562 views | DanTheMan |
| Talking of which on 19:42 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
One of the Kinnock amendments, forcing the Government to adopt a version of the May WA amended by the cross-party discussions if they neither make their own deal nor the HoC agrees No Deal, has passed - seemingly by accident, when those opposing it failed to put up any tellers for the vote. |
Who's job is it to oppose? Is it the Government?
EDIT: Yes it seems that way. I can't imagine this was accidental.
[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 19:49]
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| Talking of which on 20:01 - Sep 4 with 1553 views | Guthrum |
| Talking of which on 19:47 - Sep 4 by DanTheMan |
Who's job is it to oppose? Is it the Government?
EDIT: Yes it seems that way. I can't imagine this was accidental.
[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 19:49]
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The Bill has passed its second reading anyway, if the intention was to throw a spanner in that. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 20:39 - Sep 4 with 1529 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:34 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
You'd have to have preference voting. The lowest of the three options is eliminated and the second preference votes for those whose preferred option has been eliminated go to the remaining options to give a majority for one option. |
Surely it would have to be more along the lines of 2 questions, the first being Leave or Remain, and the second then being if Leave wins what type of Leave would you prefer?
Although I still think the cat is too far out of the bag for another referendum now, personally |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 21:08 - Sep 4 with 1512 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 20:39 - Sep 4 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Surely it would have to be more along the lines of 2 questions, the first being Leave or Remain, and the second then being if Leave wins what type of Leave would you prefer?
Although I still think the cat is too far out of the bag for another referendum now, personally |
Nope. You can't have a binary unspecified leave or remain referendum at all, not even as a first stage. That's what created the mess in the first place. There needs to be a concrete leave option or options to vote on. | |
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