| No deal Brexit 08:51 - Aug 11 with 15443 views | Herbivore |
In recent days there have been a number of stories coming out about a no deal Brexit.
We’ve had Matt Hancock — now fervent no deal backer — refusing to rule out that a no deal Brexit could lead to deaths of patients due to medication shortages. He has spoken about millions of pounds being spent on trying to prevent this whilst describing no deal as “not pretty”. (Source — The Evening Standard)
We’ve had Christopher Hope, another ardent Brexiteer, explaining how we can airlift in essentials like food and medication in the event of a no deal Brexit. That’s right, the 5th largest economy in the world can airlift in humanitarian aid for itself in the event of a no deal Brexit. The cabinet are also reported to have accepted that food prices will increase post-Brexit and this will have an impact for at least a decade. (Source — The Telegraph)
We’ve had a government leak telling us that we cannot maintain the integrity of our waters in the event of a no deal Brexit. (Source — The BBC)
We’ve had the treasury telling us that they will be setting up a “bail out fund” to prevent businesses from going bust in the event of a no deal Brexit. That’s millions if not billions of pounds of public money that is going to be used to prop up businesses that would otherwise fail because of a no deal Brexit. (Source — Various news outlets)
Now, these aren’t ‘project fear’ scare stories from ‘Remoaners’. These are coming from those who either support Brexit, are charged with preparing for no deal Brexit, or most often both. Nobody — aside from perhaps Boris — is even trying to pretend anymore that a no deal Brexit will lead us to the ‘sunlit uplands’. They are open about the fact that it will harm businesses and the economy and that it will lead to shortages of food and medication. It will make things more expensive for the public. We risk inflation going through the roof. On top of that we also know:
A no deal Brexit poses an existential threat to the United Kingdom. In the event of no deal, Scotland will agitate to leave the UK and it seems more likely than not that they will leave. Northern Ireland will be plunged into deep uncertainty.
No deal Brexit also puts us back to square one in negotiating future trade with the EU, but it puts us in a position of weakness in doing so because (a) we will be desperate for a deal, and (b) negotiations will likely take place in an atmosphere of mistrust and bad faith given how the government has conducted itself over Brexit thus far.
Furthermore, the US has ruled out a trade deal with the UK being ratified if the UK does anything to jeopardise the Good Friday Agreement. A no deal Brexit, which will necessitate border checks on the island of Ireland, will necessarily act as a threat to the Good Friday Agreement and that scuppers us doing a trade deal with the US.
Other major countries will be reluctant to do trade deals with us for two reasons. Firstly, we’ve already said we intend to offer tariff-free access for 90%+ of goods and services following a no deal Brexit, so there is no incentive to do a free trade deal with us. Secondly, any major economy will want to know what our trading relationship with the EU will look like before committing to a deal. They will want to know how easily a deal with us will improve or hinder access to our biggest trading partner in the EU.
We also know that Brexit has cost and will continue to cost billions in terms of money spent to mitigate its impact and in terms of the ongoing hit on the economy.
I know that there are some on here who are very keen on a no deal Brexit and see this as their preferred option. Given all of the above I am genuinely curious as to what the rational basis is for your support of a no deal Brexit. What do you see as the short- and long-term benefits that will outweigh all of the above? Do you feel that potential deaths, food and medication shortages, the break up of the UK, the economy struggling, things becoming more expensive, billions being spent on avoiding disaster rather than making the country better etc. is a price worth paying to leave the EU at all costs? If so, how do you justify that?
[Post edited 11 Aug 2019 9:10]
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| No deal Brexit on 20:56 - Aug 22 with 1370 views | Darth_Koont |
| No deal Brexit on 20:46 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
Another good news story relating to no deal Brexit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49440290
Still waiting for the no deal fans to give me the tangible benefits of no deal and the rational arguments for it that outweigh all of the downsides. |
Feck those anti-regulatory, earth-destroying c@nts.And those appeasing centrists who just don't like the noise.
Get straight on what's really important. Family, equality and hope. |  |
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| No deal Brexit on 21:27 - Aug 22 with 1346 views | Mugwump |
| No deal Brexit on 20:46 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
Another good news story relating to no deal Brexit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49440290
Still waiting for the no deal fans to give me the tangible benefits of no deal and the rational arguments for it that outweigh all of the downsides. |
I don’t think (in the short to medium term) that there is any advantage of a no deal but to not threaten it is the hand of a losing poker player.
Schoolboy airhead stuff to be honest. |  | | |
| No deal Brexit on 21:29 - Aug 22 with 1341 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 21:27 - Aug 22 by Mugwump |
I don’t think (in the short to medium term) that there is any advantage of a no deal but to not threaten it is the hand of a losing poker player.
Schoolboy airhead stuff to be honest. |
I disagree. You don't threaten something that everyone knows will leave you far worse off. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 21:30 - Aug 22 with 1343 views | xrayspecs |
No surprise that those who advocate remain are selling the downside of us leaving (without a deal).
Normal politics. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 21:33 - Aug 22 with 1336 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 21:30 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
No surprise that those who advocate remain are selling the downside of us leaving (without a deal).
Normal politics. |
I've provided evidence of the downsides to leaving with no deal. If you're willing to provide evidence of the benefits I'd be happy to see it. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 21:57 - Aug 22 with 1322 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 21:33 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
I've provided evidence of the downsides to leaving with no deal. If you're willing to provide evidence of the benefits I'd be happy to see it. |
But you have not provided any evidence at all.
You have quoted a bunch of folk who are pro-remain and have failed to accept - as pointed out above - that some of the disruption will be short lived.
If you want to debate properly, then engage with the facts rather than spinning an agenda.
As per my OP, I agree, leaving the EU will create problems but again as per my OP, a lot of these will be short-lived. Less time than Paul Hurst was in charge. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 21:59 - Aug 22 with 1315 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 21:29 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
I disagree. You don't threaten something that everyone knows will leave you far worse off. |
Then you have no idea at all. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 21:59 - Aug 22 with 1313 views | footers |
| No deal Brexit on 21:57 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
But you have not provided any evidence at all.
You have quoted a bunch of folk who are pro-remain and have failed to accept - as pointed out above - that some of the disruption will be short lived.
If you want to debate properly, then engage with the facts rather than spinning an agenda.
As per my OP, I agree, leaving the EU will create problems but again as per my OP, a lot of these will be short-lived. Less time than Paul Hurst was in charge. |
How long do trade deals take? How long will we have to wait?
You've voted for nothing but a vague idea. |  |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 with 1308 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 21:57 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
But you have not provided any evidence at all.
You have quoted a bunch of folk who are pro-remain and have failed to accept - as pointed out above - that some of the disruption will be short lived.
If you want to debate properly, then engage with the facts rather than spinning an agenda.
As per my OP, I agree, leaving the EU will create problems but again as per my OP, a lot of these will be short-lived. Less time than Paul Hurst was in charge. |
I have provided evidence. And you have provided no evidence or even examples of what the benefits of a no deal Brexit will be. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 with 1307 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 21:59 - Aug 22 by footers |
How long do trade deals take? How long will we have to wait?
You've voted for nothing but a vague idea. |
A long time.
A long time.
You are second guessing what I voted, if I voted. You have no idea at all.
My point remains the same, if you want to debate, then do not claim someone else's opinion is evidence. It is not. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 with 1305 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 21:59 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
Then you have no idea at all. |
Oh dear. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:05 - Aug 22 with 1294 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
I have provided evidence. And you have provided no evidence or even examples of what the benefits of a no deal Brexit will be. |
Ok. Calling you out. What evidence have you provided? Not someone else's opinion.
I have made no claims about the benefits of a no deal. Again, you have got that wrong.
I have agreed with you that leaving the EU will be disruptive. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:07 - Aug 22 with 1290 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
Oh dear. |
Says someone who has nothing more constructive to say. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:07 - Aug 22 with 1287 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
A long time.
A long time.
You are second guessing what I voted, if I voted. You have no idea at all.
My point remains the same, if you want to debate, then do not claim someone else's opinion is evidence. It is not. |
You clearly haven't read the OP properly if you think it is all just 'opinions' from remainers. Actually read the OP and get back to us, if you want to debate. Then maybe provide something yourself that adds to the debate, mayb some examples of benefits of a no deal Brexit, preferably backed up with some form of argument or evidence. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:08 - Aug 22 with 1282 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:05 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
Ok. Calling you out. What evidence have you provided? Not someone else's opinion.
I have made no claims about the benefits of a no deal. Again, you have got that wrong.
I have agreed with you that leaving the EU will be disruptive. |
Christ you're hard work. Read the OP ffs. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:09 - Aug 22 with 1280 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:07 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
Says someone who has nothing more constructive to say. |
The irony here is off the scale. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:10 - Aug 22 with 1279 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 22:07 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
You clearly haven't read the OP properly if you think it is all just 'opinions' from remainers. Actually read the OP and get back to us, if you want to debate. Then maybe provide something yourself that adds to the debate, mayb some examples of benefits of a no deal Brexit, preferably backed up with some form of argument or evidence. |
I have. It is opinion not fact nor evidence.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING THE BENEFITS OF A NO DEAL.
Which bit of this do you not understand? | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:12 - Aug 22 with 1272 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:10 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
I have. It is opinion not fact nor evidence.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING THE BENEFITS OF A NO DEAL.
Which bit of this do you not understand? |
You clearly haven't read it. It is not just an opinion, there is lots of evidence cited to back up the overall view that no deal will be largely disastrous.
I haven't said you've advocated for the benefits of a no deal, I've asked if you're able to. No need to shout.
Have a lie down. [Post edited 22 Aug 2019 22:13]
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| No deal Brexit on 22:16 - Aug 22 with 1268 views | Herbivore |
Oh no, CIL is still mad at me.
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| No deal Brexit on 22:17 - Aug 22 with 1265 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 22:12 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
You clearly haven't read it. It is not just an opinion, there is lots of evidence cited to back up the overall view that no deal will be largely disastrous.
I haven't said you've advocated for the benefits of a no deal, I've asked if you're able to. No need to shout.
Have a lie down. [Post edited 22 Aug 2019 22:13]
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I have read it.
You are confusing evidence with opinion. They are quite different you know?
You have challenged me to justify the benefits of a no brexit deal, which is totally irrelevant as that is not something I have advocated and do not support.
The CAPS were to hopefully engage your brain as you are clearly on autopilot and not thinking about what I have posted. | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:19 - Aug 22 with 1260 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:17 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
I have read it.
You are confusing evidence with opinion. They are quite different you know?
You have challenged me to justify the benefits of a no brexit deal, which is totally irrelevant as that is not something I have advocated and do not support.
The CAPS were to hopefully engage your brain as you are clearly on autopilot and not thinking about what I have posted. |
You are the one who is confused here, dearest. | |
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| No deal Brexit on 22:31 - Aug 22 with 1240 views | xrayspecs |
| No deal Brexit on 22:19 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
You are the one who is confused here, dearest. |
Is that the best you can do?
Insults are not debate, | | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:37 - Aug 22 with 1233 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| No deal Brexit on 22:03 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
A long time.
A long time.
You are second guessing what I voted, if I voted. You have no idea at all.
My point remains the same, if you want to debate, then do not claim someone else's opinion is evidence. It is not. |
Yet you counter his argument with your opinion. |  | | |
| No deal Brexit on 22:42 - Aug 22 with 1228 views | Herbivore |
| No deal Brexit on 22:31 - Aug 22 by xrayspecs |
Is that the best you can do?
Insults are not debate, |
You've been terribly condescending, so perhaps you might want to reflect on that. I'm just giving you a bit back.
Re-read the OP. There are plenty of examples of actual evidence in there, in particular there are examples cited of government spending on no deal preparations and government reports on the expected impact of a no deal Brexit and the capacity of government departments to deal with the impact. | |
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