| Will Evans respond? 16:44 - Aug 4 with 3866 views | groovyASH |
Paul Lambert has pushed him into a corner. He has nailed his colours to the mast, and he is coming down on the side of the masses, unlike MM, who was most certainly in the corner of Mr Evans.
He is the first manager to put Evans into this position. |  |
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| Will Evans respond? on 18:55 - Aug 4 with 1008 views | Mullet |
I think the difference is clearly that Mick was always trusted by Evans, fans and backed himself. He never made excuses for the budget or injuries.
Read this and notice the difference in emphasis but not honesty as people seem to be revising now.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/mccarthy-on-targets-budget-and-his-ipswich-future-1
I didn't like that Lambert seems to be hung out dry by Evans and O'Neil controlling things, nor did I like the use of the C word much yesterday, but there is a middle ground. A few seem to be leaping all over the place trying to find it, but the majority have seen it for months if not years. We are in totally unchartered territory here though.
We should have the budget and the players and the trappings to blow this league away, and we don't. That means someone needs to explain, especially if it all goes wrong. |  |
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| Will Evans respond? on 18:56 - Aug 4 with 1002 views | xrayspecs |
Not sure that is true.
PL has effectively said that he is frustrated with lack of additions, which is fair enough. He has asked ME to explain to the fans - fine with that too.
Suspect our hands are being tied by the FFP rules, which govern how much we spend on wages and fees. A few comments:
- We had an operating loss (before transfer fee spend) of around £9m during the last season for which we have financial accounts. This is higher than previous years (around £6m from memory) but still reasonable to assume that we were losing a significant amount of money on an operating basis last season.
- Then we lost £9m more through reduction in TV money etc. so that is around an £15m gap on a recurring basis.
- We have cut the squad and tried to get rid of the high earners to try and balance the books.
- We can only spend 75% of our estimated 2019/2020 income on fees and salaries so I suspect that this is what is causing us the challenge - finding a few more players within what we can afford. Not all of the player salaries are included - some of the younger players will not be included in the calculation but they will not be earning much anyway. Some of the longer term deals may be excluded too.
- While ME can loan us some more money, this does not get included in the salary/fee cap. So he would have to invest hard cash, which he simply may not have. ME has paper wealth, his company is valued at around £700m but it does not mean he has cash to give to ITFC.
On transfers, while some will focus on the sell on windfalls, we also need to understand how much we owe in transfer fees for players recruited over the last couple of years. It would appear that we still owed a significant sum to Bristol Rovers hence the money we were given by Portsmouth helped to pay off what we owed.
So I suspect what PL has asked ME to explain is the financial constraints under which we are operating. Holy, Norwood and Garbutt would likely be on decent money, so it is not that we have not competed in the transfer market and all three look excellent additions. It just means we can not have all the players we would ideally like, hence looking at the likes of Wilson and Guthrie. [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 18:59]
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| Will Evans respond? on 19:05 - Aug 4 with 983 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Will Evans respond? on 18:55 - Aug 4 by Mullet |
I think the difference is clearly that Mick was always trusted by Evans, fans and backed himself. He never made excuses for the budget or injuries.
Read this and notice the difference in emphasis but not honesty as people seem to be revising now.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/mccarthy-on-targets-budget-and-his-ipswich-future-1
I didn't like that Lambert seems to be hung out dry by Evans and O'Neil controlling things, nor did I like the use of the C word much yesterday, but there is a middle ground. A few seem to be leaping all over the place trying to find it, but the majority have seen it for months if not years. We are in totally unchartered territory here though.
We should have the budget and the players and the trappings to blow this league away, and we don't. That means someone needs to explain, especially if it all goes wrong. |
Fair points, although I think the issue with this league is the salary cap that we’re going to struggle to get anywhere near, even with the 40%(50%?) relegation clauses. Even if ME could flex his financial muscle, he’s not allowed to. Or is he struggling? Or simply trying to balance the books?
I don’t know what to think tbh. Lambert seems to be courting the fans at potentially any cost. That’s a dangerous strategy. He says his relationship with Marcus is still good, but if I was Marcus I’d be fuming with him. Is their a major breakdown in trust being played out in Lamberts pressers, or is he just a whinging Weegie? Answers on a post card....
Edit - just to add on the wages. We’re completely bloated in the middle if you include the injured players. That must be constraining what we can do with the rest of the team. [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 19:10]
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| Will Evans respond? on 19:10 - Aug 4 with 973 views | pointofblue |
| Will Evans respond? on 17:52 - Aug 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
He can only turn the heat on Evans if Evans feels the heat.
I suspect he doesnt. |
True - like Mike Ashley, the Oystons etc. But, financially, it makes sense if the club is pulling in the same direction as the atmosphere can give that extra 5-10% to the players which could help us over the line. Lambert must have heard how easily the fans turned on Mick, who protected Evans for the most part, and doesn't want to join that club if it does go wrong. | |
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| Will Evans respond? on 19:12 - Aug 4 with 970 views | Mullet |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:05 - Aug 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Fair points, although I think the issue with this league is the salary cap that we’re going to struggle to get anywhere near, even with the 40%(50%?) relegation clauses. Even if ME could flex his financial muscle, he’s not allowed to. Or is he struggling? Or simply trying to balance the books?
I don’t know what to think tbh. Lambert seems to be courting the fans at potentially any cost. That’s a dangerous strategy. He says his relationship with Marcus is still good, but if I was Marcus I’d be fuming with him. Is their a major breakdown in trust being played out in Lamberts pressers, or is he just a whinging Weegie? Answers on a post card....
Edit - just to add on the wages. We’re completely bloated in the middle if you include the injured players. That must be constraining what we can do with the rest of the team. [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 19:10]
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As much as people pretended/refused to get that Mick was just being Mick. This is Lambert just being Lambert in my opinion.
He did the same at other clubs and when he got here "I am/I have....toxic dressing room/sort out the characters...etc." and no one can really argue with that, except he didn't last and he didn't achieve at his last 3 jobs.
If he is here to fire fight, then he has already used up a significant portion of his time and chances here based on his previous. That is hugely worrying. If Lambert can't do it here, who can?
After Hurst, after Mick, after Jewell and Keane what type or status of manager is left to fix ITFC under Evans? All we have done in his time here is decline, only one man stopped that for six years and he's long gone. If that trend is to continue it has to fall on Evans. | |
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| Will Evans respond? on 19:22 - Aug 4 with 941 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:12 - Aug 4 by Mullet |
As much as people pretended/refused to get that Mick was just being Mick. This is Lambert just being Lambert in my opinion.
He did the same at other clubs and when he got here "I am/I have....toxic dressing room/sort out the characters...etc." and no one can really argue with that, except he didn't last and he didn't achieve at his last 3 jobs.
If he is here to fire fight, then he has already used up a significant portion of his time and chances here based on his previous. That is hugely worrying. If Lambert can't do it here, who can?
After Hurst, after Mick, after Jewell and Keane what type or status of manager is left to fix ITFC under Evans? All we have done in his time here is decline, only one man stopped that for six years and he's long gone. If that trend is to continue it has to fall on Evans. |
Excellent posts on this topic. Really helpful to hear lots of different views explaining the tough situation both Lambert (wanting players) and Evans (balancing the books with new rules and much less money) are in.
My emotional reaction though is that I wish Lambert would button it a bit. He was backed in January with expensive loans who, largely, did nothing. It's understandable that Evans is cautious. All the discussions should be behind closed doors. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:40 - Aug 4 with 928 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:05 - Aug 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Fair points, although I think the issue with this league is the salary cap that we’re going to struggle to get anywhere near, even with the 40%(50%?) relegation clauses. Even if ME could flex his financial muscle, he’s not allowed to. Or is he struggling? Or simply trying to balance the books?
I don’t know what to think tbh. Lambert seems to be courting the fans at potentially any cost. That’s a dangerous strategy. He says his relationship with Marcus is still good, but if I was Marcus I’d be fuming with him. Is their a major breakdown in trust being played out in Lamberts pressers, or is he just a whinging Weegie? Answers on a post card....
Edit - just to add on the wages. We’re completely bloated in the middle if you include the injured players. That must be constraining what we can do with the rest of the team. [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 19:10]
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Good post, agree with most points.
Also PL questioned whether ME even has the money!? That's not a wise thing to say in public. |  |
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| Will Evans respond? on 19:49 - Aug 4 with 919 views | pointofblue |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:40 - Aug 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Good post, agree with most points.
Also PL questioned whether ME even has the money!? That's not a wise thing to say in public. |
Unless that was deliberate (with Evans' agreement) to try and lower expectations of released players and their agents who we're dealing with. | |
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| Will Evans respond? on 20:02 - Aug 4 with 899 views | xrayspecs |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:40 - Aug 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Good post, agree with most points.
Also PL questioned whether ME even has the money!? That's not a wise thing to say in public. |
Could also be managing fans expectations that ME simply cannot throw large sums of money at the club. PL has also talked about the substantial investment ME has already made, so it is hardly him saying he has not invested.
ME has put a lot of cash into the club via company loans. What is different this year, is that we effectively have a salary/fee cap and that loans are not included when calculating how much we can spend. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:06 - Aug 4 with 893 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:02 - Aug 4 by xrayspecs |
Could also be managing fans expectations that ME simply cannot throw large sums of money at the club. PL has also talked about the substantial investment ME has already made, so it is hardly him saying he has not invested.
ME has put a lot of cash into the club via company loans. What is different this year, is that we effectively have a salary/fee cap and that loans are not included when calculating how much we can spend. |
I didnt say that PL suggested he hadnt invested, PL acknowledged that he had. I said PL questioned whether he had the money to invest.
"He’s one owner who has put a helluva lot of money into it and if he’s not got the money to do it, fine, totally fine, but tell the fans what’s going on, which I’m pretty sure he will do." | |
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| Will Evans respond? on 20:11 - Aug 4 with 886 views | xrayspecs |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:06 - Aug 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I didnt say that PL suggested he hadnt invested, PL acknowledged that he had. I said PL questioned whether he had the money to invest.
"He’s one owner who has put a helluva lot of money into it and if he’s not got the money to do it, fine, totally fine, but tell the fans what’s going on, which I’m pretty sure he will do." |
I think we are saying the same thing. ME may not have the cash to invest this season and a further inter-company loan would not allow us to spend more on wages/fees as it does not count when working out our salary/fee cap. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:16 - Aug 4 with 882 views | Moriarty |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:12 - Aug 4 by Mullet |
As much as people pretended/refused to get that Mick was just being Mick. This is Lambert just being Lambert in my opinion.
He did the same at other clubs and when he got here "I am/I have....toxic dressing room/sort out the characters...etc." and no one can really argue with that, except he didn't last and he didn't achieve at his last 3 jobs.
If he is here to fire fight, then he has already used up a significant portion of his time and chances here based on his previous. That is hugely worrying. If Lambert can't do it here, who can?
After Hurst, after Mick, after Jewell and Keane what type or status of manager is left to fix ITFC under Evans? All we have done in his time here is decline, only one man stopped that for six years and he's long gone. If that trend is to continue it has to fall on Evans. |
We’ve made the playoffs twice since relegation (from Prem). Under Royle and Mick, both of whom have been called “dinosaurs”. Telling? Both experienced, both good in man management.
I think Evans has to react, and I expect he will, by interview or statement. I expect it to be something along the lines of money is tight, ffp, supports PL but asking prices and wages are too high and he funds to the tune of xyz per annum and can’t stretch much further. If the right player becomes available at the right price etc.
So if Lambert goes for whatever reason who can we call? Well I’d liked to have seen Burley but he’s apparently out of touch with the modern game if you read some on here! Which is fine by me. See Hurst and first paragraph above. I think I’m going to be clinging to our past a bit till the day I die.
I don’t know if what PL had said would ring louder if it came from GB and TB? There might be more than league points at stake with our results over the next few weeks. [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 21:04]
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| Will Evans respond? on 20:44 - Aug 4 with 846 views | haynes_toe1 |
If Evan's comes out and speaks because Lambert tells him too, Evans hands control to Lambert and Evan's looks like a pushover.
There is no way hes going to do it. It would be suicidal from MEs point of view. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:59 - Aug 4 with 830 views | brogansnose |
| Will Evans respond? on 19:12 - Aug 4 by Mullet |
As much as people pretended/refused to get that Mick was just being Mick. This is Lambert just being Lambert in my opinion.
He did the same at other clubs and when he got here "I am/I have....toxic dressing room/sort out the characters...etc." and no one can really argue with that, except he didn't last and he didn't achieve at his last 3 jobs.
If he is here to fire fight, then he has already used up a significant portion of his time and chances here based on his previous. That is hugely worrying. If Lambert can't do it here, who can?
After Hurst, after Mick, after Jewell and Keane what type or status of manager is left to fix ITFC under Evans? All we have done in his time here is decline, only one man stopped that for six years and he's long gone. If that trend is to continue it has to fall on Evans. |
Bang.
I would like to think that Lambert see's the long term problems with the Evans tenure and although, the financial situation is what it is and realistically ain't going to change, the relationship with the fans and community is vitally now important if this whole thing is to survive. Is there an element of brand PL, probably yeah, but I also think he 'gets football' and and at the moment thats all we chuffin' well might have for the forseable.
Only one constant in why and how we got here isn't there ? |  | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 21:06 - Aug 4 with 812 views | NotMarcusEvans |
Maybe he's been busy, ever thought of that? Some of us have multi-million-pound, international events businesses to manage, ya know.
Give the guy a break. |  | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 22:00 - Aug 4 with 753 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Will Evans respond? on 21:06 - Aug 4 by NotMarcusEvans |
Maybe he's been busy, ever thought of that? Some of us have multi-million-pound, international events businesses to manage, ya know.
Give the guy a break. |
The time for Evans to explain, if he wants to, will be after the transfer window has closed. |  |
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| Will Evans respond? on 22:00 - Aug 4 with 762 views | Guthrum |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:59 - Aug 4 by brogansnose |
Bang.
I would like to think that Lambert see's the long term problems with the Evans tenure and although, the financial situation is what it is and realistically ain't going to change, the relationship with the fans and community is vitally now important if this whole thing is to survive. Is there an element of brand PL, probably yeah, but I also think he 'gets football' and and at the moment thats all we chuffin' well might have for the forseable.
Only one constant in why and how we got here isn't there ? |
The problem I have with concentrating upon this as "The Evans Era", is that it ignores the fact that this has also been a time of considerable change in the financial position of English football as a whole.
Particularly regarding the massive inflation in transfer fees, Prem TV money and parachute payments. Also the imposition of FFP, which incorporates tight controls (particularly in L1 and L2), get-out clauses (parachute money) and which has been unevenly enforced (at best). All of which has horribly unbalanced the lower divisions.
Evans' biggest sin has been in failing to "keep up with the Joneses" on spending. Which left us dangerously impoverished in the Championship and unable to make the hoped-for splash in League One.
There may be many reasons why he has not done so. The desire to limit a sizeable drain on his finances. Sheer inability to spend more (lack of cash, initial pot for the project long gone). Application of sensible business practices to the mad world of football. Who knows? Evans hasn't told us - and anything he did say is likely to be misinterpreted or negatively spun.
The changes in football over the last 12 years have left Evans in a terrible bind, the only way out of which is to admit defeat (something I doubt he is keen on) swallow the thick end of a £100m loss and sell the club on to a wildly uncertain future - as we have seen repeatedly in recent years, with a parade of owners many of whom have ranged from the dubious to the mad to the outright criminal (and who probaly will turn out not to be able to pay him the agreed fee, let alone continuing to fund ITFC). [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 22:07]
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| Will Evans respond? on 23:25 - Aug 4 with 719 views | istanblue |
Evans should respond by stepping up to the plate and getting the 2 or so quality signings that are needed through the door. Won't happen though. More likely there will be no response, or if there is it will be a series of excuses as to why we've spent precisely £0 this summer (despite relegation wage cuts, 14 players departing the club, and unexpected windfalls from sell-on clauses). |  | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 23:29 - Aug 4 with 714 views | linhdi |
| Will Evans respond? on 22:00 - Aug 4 by Guthrum |
The problem I have with concentrating upon this as "The Evans Era", is that it ignores the fact that this has also been a time of considerable change in the financial position of English football as a whole.
Particularly regarding the massive inflation in transfer fees, Prem TV money and parachute payments. Also the imposition of FFP, which incorporates tight controls (particularly in L1 and L2), get-out clauses (parachute money) and which has been unevenly enforced (at best). All of which has horribly unbalanced the lower divisions.
Evans' biggest sin has been in failing to "keep up with the Joneses" on spending. Which left us dangerously impoverished in the Championship and unable to make the hoped-for splash in League One.
There may be many reasons why he has not done so. The desire to limit a sizeable drain on his finances. Sheer inability to spend more (lack of cash, initial pot for the project long gone). Application of sensible business practices to the mad world of football. Who knows? Evans hasn't told us - and anything he did say is likely to be misinterpreted or negatively spun.
The changes in football over the last 12 years have left Evans in a terrible bind, the only way out of which is to admit defeat (something I doubt he is keen on) swallow the thick end of a £100m loss and sell the club on to a wildly uncertain future - as we have seen repeatedly in recent years, with a parade of owners many of whom have ranged from the dubious to the mad to the outright criminal (and who probaly will turn out not to be able to pay him the agreed fee, let alone continuing to fund ITFC). [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 22:07]
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Best post on this subject so far. And unlikely to be bettered for a while. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 00:01 - Aug 5 with 703 views | Westcountryblue |
| Will Evans respond? on 16:52 - Aug 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I doubt Evans will respond. Why should he.
I'm not taking ME's side, just don't think he will respond to these childish games.
I doubt he liked PL questioning whether he actually has the money. |
Because we are losing close to 10m a season in television revenue each season we stay in this division...
That and our best players are likely to slap in transfer requests if we fail to go up.
2 good signings in the right areas would propel us to being real top 2 candidates. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 07:59 - Aug 5 with 653 views | Coastalblue |
I actually read it as being less about the money, though that's significant and the basis of the conversation, and more about Lambert liking having the whole Club as a big entity including the fans.
He clearly likes the PR side of things, likes the idea of the Club pulling in one direction throughout and I get the impression that he feels Evans could do more to enable that if he were a little more forthright.
I think it was less a moan about not being able to spend more money, and more of a plea to explain why we're not spending more money. Evans and Evans spending is the most divisive subject amongst the fans these days and I expect Lambert can see that and wants to head it off as much as possible. |  |
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| Will Evans respond? on 08:15 - Aug 5 with 643 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Will Evans respond? on 22:00 - Aug 4 by Guthrum |
The problem I have with concentrating upon this as "The Evans Era", is that it ignores the fact that this has also been a time of considerable change in the financial position of English football as a whole.
Particularly regarding the massive inflation in transfer fees, Prem TV money and parachute payments. Also the imposition of FFP, which incorporates tight controls (particularly in L1 and L2), get-out clauses (parachute money) and which has been unevenly enforced (at best). All of which has horribly unbalanced the lower divisions.
Evans' biggest sin has been in failing to "keep up with the Joneses" on spending. Which left us dangerously impoverished in the Championship and unable to make the hoped-for splash in League One.
There may be many reasons why he has not done so. The desire to limit a sizeable drain on his finances. Sheer inability to spend more (lack of cash, initial pot for the project long gone). Application of sensible business practices to the mad world of football. Who knows? Evans hasn't told us - and anything he did say is likely to be misinterpreted or negatively spun.
The changes in football over the last 12 years have left Evans in a terrible bind, the only way out of which is to admit defeat (something I doubt he is keen on) swallow the thick end of a £100m loss and sell the club on to a wildly uncertain future - as we have seen repeatedly in recent years, with a parade of owners many of whom have ranged from the dubious to the mad to the outright criminal (and who probaly will turn out not to be able to pay him the agreed fee, let alone continuing to fund ITFC). [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 22:07]
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Generally agree but not with "unable to make the hoped for splash in League One". I think we are actually being underestimated this season - I know it sounds mad to say that when we are third favourites with most bookies but we have a better squad than Sunderland and Portsmouth. We are a couple short (one defender and one forward) but we could easily put out two different midfields that would be the best in the division. We have some serious talent. | | | |
| Will Evans respond? on 08:17 - Aug 5 with 638 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Will Evans respond? on 20:44 - Aug 4 by haynes_toe1 |
If Evan's comes out and speaks because Lambert tells him too, Evans hands control to Lambert and Evan's looks like a pushover.
There is no way hes going to do it. It would be suicidal from MEs point of view. |
Evans speaks before every first home game of the season via the programme anyway. That is nothing new. [Post edited 5 Aug 2019 8:17]
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| Will Evans respond? on 08:31 - Aug 5 with 620 views | Mullet |
| Will Evans respond? on 22:00 - Aug 4 by Guthrum |
The problem I have with concentrating upon this as "The Evans Era", is that it ignores the fact that this has also been a time of considerable change in the financial position of English football as a whole.
Particularly regarding the massive inflation in transfer fees, Prem TV money and parachute payments. Also the imposition of FFP, which incorporates tight controls (particularly in L1 and L2), get-out clauses (parachute money) and which has been unevenly enforced (at best). All of which has horribly unbalanced the lower divisions.
Evans' biggest sin has been in failing to "keep up with the Joneses" on spending. Which left us dangerously impoverished in the Championship and unable to make the hoped-for splash in League One.
There may be many reasons why he has not done so. The desire to limit a sizeable drain on his finances. Sheer inability to spend more (lack of cash, initial pot for the project long gone). Application of sensible business practices to the mad world of football. Who knows? Evans hasn't told us - and anything he did say is likely to be misinterpreted or negatively spun.
The changes in football over the last 12 years have left Evans in a terrible bind, the only way out of which is to admit defeat (something I doubt he is keen on) swallow the thick end of a £100m loss and sell the club on to a wildly uncertain future - as we have seen repeatedly in recent years, with a parade of owners many of whom have ranged from the dubious to the mad to the outright criminal (and who probaly will turn out not to be able to pay him the agreed fee, let alone continuing to fund ITFC). [Post edited 4 Aug 2019 22:07]
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But where do you draw the line? Those changes have affected everyone from Man City to Notts County.
The reason Evans is even here is because of the genesis of that boom. I can't blame him for not being able to see the future perfectly, but his lack of foresight time and again is starting to show negligence.
It's too simplistic to say he's totally to blame or always at fault, that's easily proven not to be so. However, he is too often hesitant, from a position of being a step behind the competition anyway. That's why we seem to have slipped and then fallen off a cliff.
No one wants a Leeds scenario, but people also need to wise up to the fact that cherry picking clubs from the past 20 years who went to Div 3 and are now regular participants in the Prem is devoid of context too. We need an Ipswich based strategy and that's the one area that is deafeningly silent from Evans for years.
Every game we play at this level is an insult. We should never have been allowed to get to this point, and it is on his watch after more than one near miss. The fact is we could be down here a season and brush it off, but still be left markedly weaker for the experience. But it's more likely we are down here for a while and that will grind a broken club into dust.
What's he going to do then with an even bigger task and even bigger gap to bridge?
He was fooled into thinking he could just spend his way up. He was fooled into thinking pacifying the fans and getting shot of his one good manager would be a cure all. He can't keep putting the turds in a shiny new box every so often and expect us to be grateful. | |
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