| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible 18:31 - Jul 9 with 11505 views | BrixtonBlue |
I've been critical of JC over Europe but a new vote, knowing what we know now, is the right decision. Took him a while but I'm happy he's got here.
I'm obviously in favour of Remain, which Labour now are, but a new vote just seems right.
"Jeremy Corbyn has challenged the next Tory leader to hold another referendum before taking Britain out of the EU, saying Labour will campaign for Remain."
Don't believe the fake news:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48919695 |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:05 - Jul 9 with 1066 views | sparks |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:04 - Jul 9 by gordon |
He gives me the impression sometimes of not really knowing what he stands for or believes anymore.
He just isn't close to having the political skill or know-how to take what he thinks to be an expedient or pragmatic position and appear convincing. |
Generally, I dont think he is able / willing to choose pragmatism over ideology. But he can't openly admit that. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:07 - Jul 9 with 1048 views | gordon |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:04 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
May very well have. I must admit I wasn't paying attention to them and neither was anyone else back then electorally or in the media.
There's certainly been a huge shift in the public, media and political opinion re: Remain since the parliamentary shenanigans in Feb/March |
The Lib Dems have been pretty consistent in supporting a) a second referendum and b) campaigning for remain.
I certainly agree that there has been far more media interest in the fact that for the last 3 years the opposition party hasn't had a meaningful policy on the most important political issue facing this country for a generation. |  | | |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:09 - Jul 9 with 1048 views | chicoazul |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:05 - Jul 9 by sparks |
Generally, I dont think he is able / willing to choose pragmatism over ideology. But he can't openly admit that. |
Exactly. Plus he knows his acolytes under 21-ish are all super pro EU.
This is a man for pretty much his whole political career has campaigned against our membership of the EU seeing it as he does as a corporate protectorate that prevents us from fully implementing a glorious socialist workers republic. The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:10 - Jul 9 with 1041 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:09 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Exactly. Plus he knows his acolytes under 21-ish are all super pro EU.
This is a man for pretty much his whole political career has campaigned against our membership of the EU seeing it as he does as a corporate protectorate that prevents us from fully implementing a glorious socialist workers republic. The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized. |
I don't think Dolly is that young... I mean, he likes Morrissey. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:10 - Jul 9 with 1041 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 18:56 - Jul 9 by gordon |
Didn't the Lib Dems have a second referendum in their manifesto for the 2017 General Election, and a promise to campaign for remain? |
Yes they did. They’re passionate believers that we’re stronger individually and collectively in the EU. They campaigned for remain in the referendum and reinstated their believe in our position in Europe in their 2017 manifesto. And committed to taking the final deal to the people.
People can read it for themselves (page 9) - https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5909d4366ad575794c000000/attachment
Lib Dems
Greens
Plaid
SNP (I think)...
...are the only parties consistent in their pro-EU membership stance as a matter of principle. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:12 - Jul 9 with 1034 views | footers |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:09 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Exactly. Plus he knows his acolytes under 21-ish are all super pro EU.
This is a man for pretty much his whole political career has campaigned against our membership of the EU seeing it as he does as a corporate protectorate that prevents us from fully implementing a glorious socialist workers republic. The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized. |
"The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized."
Sure does, buddy. As does my means of reproduction, sadly. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:13 - Jul 9 with 1031 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:12 - Jul 9 by footers |
"The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized."
Sure does, buddy. As does my means of reproduction, sadly. |
That date didn't go well yesterday then? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:14 - Jul 9 with 1028 views | footers |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:13 - Jul 9 by SpruceMoose |
That date didn't go well yesterday then? |
No. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:16 - Jul 9 with 1021 views | gordon |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:10 - Jul 9 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes they did. They’re passionate believers that we’re stronger individually and collectively in the EU. They campaigned for remain in the referendum and reinstated their believe in our position in Europe in their 2017 manifesto. And committed to taking the final deal to the people.
People can read it for themselves (page 9) - https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5909d4366ad575794c000000/attachment
Lib Dems
Greens
Plaid
SNP (I think)...
...are the only parties consistent in their pro-EU membership stance as a matter of principle. |
Exactly, I just can't imagine being attracted to Labour's position. I'll just vote for a Remain supporting party - I would want to put politicians into more prominent positions who can criticise the madness of Brexit clearly and vociferously. | | | |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:16 - Jul 9 with 1023 views | chicoazul |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:12 - Jul 9 by footers |
"The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized."
Sure does, buddy. As does my means of reproduction, sadly. |
Didnt you try the whole "let me explain to you why drugs are bad" thing? [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:18]
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:17 - Jul 9 with 1018 views | footers |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:16 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Didnt you try the whole "let me explain to you why drugs are bad" thing? [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:18]
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I tried but she kept having to go to the toilet every five minutes. Women's troubles I take it. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:20 - Jul 9 with 1009 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 18:33 - Jul 9 by SpruceMoose |
"But he does not say what he would do if he won a general election and was placed in charge of the Brexit process."
Yes. Brilliant.  |
Everyone's telling me Labour won't win the next General Election, so what's your problem?
You'd rather what we have now than Labour going back to the public?!
Let's not forget the Tories created this mess. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:23 - Jul 9 with 1003 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:20 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Everyone's telling me Labour won't win the next General Election, so what's your problem?
You'd rather what we have now than Labour going back to the public?!
Let's not forget the Tories created this mess. |
Keep reading the thread, I explain what my 'problem' is.
Hoping we can all just discuss it without everybody getting the arseache for once. [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:28]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:29 - Jul 9 with 986 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 18:46 - Jul 9 by gordon |
He could have been hammering the Conservatives over Brexit for the last three years, making the public see clearly what a mess the conservatives are in, what a blindingly awful idea Brexit is, and forcing the government towards another referendum and ultimately overturning the stupidity.
It's as plain as day that there has never been an outcome which is both feasible and delivers on promises made in the referendum campaign, but despite this Corbyn has barely offered the slightest criticism of Brexit, or expressed any meaningful policy on it.
I'll vote for whoever expresses a sensible, rational view on Brexit, and it isn't going to be a party led by Jeremy Corbyn I'm afraid. |
Why do you care so much about what's happened in the past? I've said he's taken his time. But this is now.
I suspect you just hate Corbyn and/or Labour. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:32 - Jul 9 with 974 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:17 - Jul 9 by footers |
I tried but she kept having to go to the toilet every five minutes. Women's troubles I take it. |
It’s funny how that involves jumping out of the toilet window and legging it down the street, isn’t it? That used to happen to me a lot before I found my imaginary family. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:32 - Jul 9 with 976 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:29 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Why do you care so much about what's happened in the past? I've said he's taken his time. But this is now.
I suspect you just hate Corbyn and/or Labour. |
Dolly, I think you should recognise that for as much you are buoyed up bu this news, some folk have been legitimately dismayed by Labour's position on all of this for quite some time now, and have had perfectly valid reasons for being so. This news is not going to be enough to strip many people of that feeling. Can you not at least imagine that might be the case? [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:34]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 with 973 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 18:53 - Jul 9 by SpruceMoose |
So like I said, if you're a staunch remainer you'll look elsewhere because of this 'all things to all people' approach.
I don't actually have an issue with what they're trying to do, I'm just being honest that it just won't persuade me, or I suspect others like me, to vote for them.
If you want to remain, Labour aren't the party for you. If you want to leave, Labour aren't the party for you. So, who are they for? People who neither care nor know about Brexit at all? |
Labour are now a remain party. That is clear.
I admire your honesty in your second para. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 with 971 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Labour are now a remain party. That is clear.
I admire your honesty in your second para. |
I'm not sure how you arrive at your conclusion to be honest.
We have no idea what he would do after a general election. That's the issue. Labour are not pro-Remain under all circumstances as things stand, and that isn't good enough for me, or many like me. To be honest, he's dragged this out so long that this just looks like panic to my mind.
Lib Dems
Greens
Plaid
SNP
Those are the real remain parties currently. [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:38]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:37 - Jul 9 with 961 views | Steve_M |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Labour are now a remain party. That is clear.
I admire your honesty in your second para. |
"Labour are now a remain party. That is clear. "
Well kind of, in some circumstances but they might still support a Labour Brexit which doesn't make them an unambiguously remain party. It's too little, too late for far too many voters and that's before considering the other issues with Corbyn's 'leadership'. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:43 - Jul 9 with 952 views | giant_stow |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Labour are now a remain party. That is clear.
I admire your honesty in your second para. |
I won't believe it until I hear len mccluskey say the words. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:44 - Jul 9 with 948 views | sparks |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:34 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Labour are now a remain party. That is clear.
I admire your honesty in your second para. |
I honestly dont know how you reach that conclusion.
They are comitted ot campaign remain against a tory deal. But will not tell us their position in the event they had power. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:46 - Jul 9 with 944 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:07 - Jul 9 by gordon |
The Lib Dems have been pretty consistent in supporting a) a second referendum and b) campaigning for remain.
I certainly agree that there has been far more media interest in the fact that for the last 3 years the opposition party hasn't had a meaningful policy on the most important political issue facing this country for a generation. |
Well, I agree with them on Europe and Remain far more than I agree with Labour. I was saying Remain and just take the "anti-democratic" hit before May even triggered article 50.
But I do think if Labour had come out as Remain back in 2017 then we'd have had a hardening of resolve on the dark side and we'd be out of Europe now. Far more by accident than design, but I think we've arrived at Remain as the majority choice (electorally and even politically) because the Tories have been left to fight amongst themselves rather than close ranks. |  |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:47 - Jul 9 with 944 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:00 - Jul 9 by sparks |
Indeed. He remains stuck because he is a brexiteer at heart, but has spent the last few years pretending otherwise. |
Your mask is slipping. Callis was right - you're a dyed-in-the-wool Tory. There's no way you believe Corbyn is trolling. You're more intelligent than to agree with that bowlocks. | |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:49 - Jul 9 with 934 views | SpruceMoose |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:47 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
Your mask is slipping. Callis was right - you're a dyed-in-the-wool Tory. There's no way you believe Corbyn is trolling. You're more intelligent than to agree with that bowlocks. |
You do seem to take all this very personally mate. It's just a difference of opinions.
Like I said earlier on, putting your neutral hat on, surely you can appreciate why this news isn't enough for a lot of folk?
Also, point of order, Callis has never been right about anything as far as I aware. [Post edited 9 Jul 2019 19:50]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:55 - Jul 9 with 918 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Brilliant by Labour. This is what we need and utterly sensible on 19:09 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Exactly. Plus he knows his acolytes under 21-ish are all super pro EU.
This is a man for pretty much his whole political career has campaigned against our membership of the EU seeing it as he does as a corporate protectorate that prevents us from fully implementing a glorious socialist workers republic. The means of production remain frustratingly un-seized. |
"This is a man for pretty much his whole political career has campaigned against our membership of the EU "
You got any evidence for this? Feel free to post it... | |
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