| General census of opinion..... 23:16 - Jul 26 with 2894 views | Deano69 |
Just trying to harness the collective power of the TWTD massive.
What is your perception and view on Artificial Intelligence / Machine Learning?
Really interested to see a snap shot of opinion, understanding and/or adoption of it. [Post edited 2 Aug 2023 16:55]
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| General census of opinion..... on 07:11 - Jul 27 with 2131 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Not sure it has any intelligence - any more than a clock knows what time it is. |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 07:57 - Jul 27 with 2110 views | wkj |
My opinion is that "Artificial intelligence" as a term is really incorrect - and this debate is deep seeded in the tech industry too. However, machine learning or dynamic problem solving is more accurate.
Either way, this is a very accessible and powerful technology and the potential for hardship caused by it is very very high. On the other hand, the benefits we will see from it when used in a diagnostic and scientific way could be what we need to survive as a species.
In short, the power of Machine learning is akin to nuclear fusion in the real world. Powerful, game changing and needed - yet if it ends up in the wrong hands the consequences could be significant.
(And no, I'm not talking about a band of robots going mental on disco biscuits and turning us all in to scrambled eggs but rather digital shutdown attacks, cyber terrorism, the convincing spread of false information and conspiracies, etc etc) [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 8:01]
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| General census of opinion..... on 08:15 - Jul 27 with 2075 views | NthQldITFC |
Throughout time, humans have naturally developed more and more powerful tools, from manual tools to energy-harnessing tools, from communication tools to automation tools. The rate of 'development' much like Moore's Law in computing is and has accelerated at a great rate most recently.
Many of those tools initially prove helpful to humanity, occasionally even helpful to our closed and limited world, but most of them can also be shown to have been used for the purposes of driving unfettered and ill-considered 'growth' with which our closed and limited world cannot cope.
As individuals and as a whole we embrace exciting new things and either wilfully or through lack of understanding ignore the consequences to our souls and to the planet as a whole. It's a very natural response in some ways, but irresponsible in a way that many of us understand even if we pretend not to.
Our ability to invent has outgrown our wisdom of how and when and how much to use our tools.
AI to me is an exciting, helpful and exceedingly dangerous tool in the hands of a bling-blinded, over-developed ape. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| General census of opinion..... on 08:19 - Jul 27 with 2057 views | Herbivore |
It will accelerate the end times. |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 08:30 - Jul 27 with 2041 views | NthQldITFC |
| General census of opinion..... on 07:57 - Jul 27 by wkj |
My opinion is that "Artificial intelligence" as a term is really incorrect - and this debate is deep seeded in the tech industry too. However, machine learning or dynamic problem solving is more accurate.
Either way, this is a very accessible and powerful technology and the potential for hardship caused by it is very very high. On the other hand, the benefits we will see from it when used in a diagnostic and scientific way could be what we need to survive as a species.
In short, the power of Machine learning is akin to nuclear fusion in the real world. Powerful, game changing and needed - yet if it ends up in the wrong hands the consequences could be significant.
(And no, I'm not talking about a band of robots going mental on disco biscuits and turning us all in to scrambled eggs but rather digital shutdown attacks, cyber terrorism, the convincing spread of false information and conspiracies, etc etc) [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 8:01]
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Agree with every word of that, except the 'if' in the third paragraph.
It should be 'when' and that 'when' is probably right now. There's no feasible constraint on access to software, absolutely zero doubt that it is already in the wrong hands. Those wrong hands don't necessarily need to be connected to a malevolent brain either, just a greedy or stupid one will do. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| General census of opinion..... on 08:35 - Jul 27 with 2029 views | wkj |
| General census of opinion..... on 08:15 - Jul 27 by NthQldITFC |
Throughout time, humans have naturally developed more and more powerful tools, from manual tools to energy-harnessing tools, from communication tools to automation tools. The rate of 'development' much like Moore's Law in computing is and has accelerated at a great rate most recently.
Many of those tools initially prove helpful to humanity, occasionally even helpful to our closed and limited world, but most of them can also be shown to have been used for the purposes of driving unfettered and ill-considered 'growth' with which our closed and limited world cannot cope.
As individuals and as a whole we embrace exciting new things and either wilfully or through lack of understanding ignore the consequences to our souls and to the planet as a whole. It's a very natural response in some ways, but irresponsible in a way that many of us understand even if we pretend not to.
Our ability to invent has outgrown our wisdom of how and when and how much to use our tools.
AI to me is an exciting, helpful and exceedingly dangerous tool in the hands of a bling-blinded, over-developed ape. |
I am of the mind that our ingenuity has created a lot more problems than it has fixed. Everything from the industrial revolution has been astonishing evolution, but the consequences are starting to become known more and more.
Many of us on TWTD grew up during the time where digital technology went from being a novelty to being pervasive. Yet as much as we herald being more connected as humans we've never been more lonely as a species.
For instance, going out to the rec to play rounders and then tearing around on a BMX were the common ways for kids to blow of steam and socialise, but now people are developing into adulthood with social anxiety, in large part because of a pseudo social upbringing.
If machine learning technology can allow people to get back to shorter work weeks, spend more time with family and not create an even larger wealth deficit - then I am all about it. However, Zuckernuts has already outlined the Metaverse and people are buying in - we are potentially looking at being further removed from our primal instincts and being farmed for opinions and data as a resource. AI/ML serves only to abstract our connection to computer science further and this is coming from someone who works in the industry rather than someone who is going conspiracy mode due to some wonky articles and YouTube videos. | |
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| General census of opinion..... on 09:00 - Jul 27 with 1990 views | NthQldITFC |
| General census of opinion..... on 08:35 - Jul 27 by wkj |
I am of the mind that our ingenuity has created a lot more problems than it has fixed. Everything from the industrial revolution has been astonishing evolution, but the consequences are starting to become known more and more.
Many of us on TWTD grew up during the time where digital technology went from being a novelty to being pervasive. Yet as much as we herald being more connected as humans we've never been more lonely as a species.
For instance, going out to the rec to play rounders and then tearing around on a BMX were the common ways for kids to blow of steam and socialise, but now people are developing into adulthood with social anxiety, in large part because of a pseudo social upbringing.
If machine learning technology can allow people to get back to shorter work weeks, spend more time with family and not create an even larger wealth deficit - then I am all about it. However, Zuckernuts has already outlined the Metaverse and people are buying in - we are potentially looking at being further removed from our primal instincts and being farmed for opinions and data as a resource. AI/ML serves only to abstract our connection to computer science further and this is coming from someone who works in the industry rather than someone who is going conspiracy mode due to some wonky articles and YouTube videos. |
Very well said.
I think that most of us know this as well, at least on some semiconscious level, but we tend to ignore our responsibilities to ourselves, our children and our planet, in favour of chasing shiny new things.
The observable truth that kids don't go out to play anymore in favour of a digital existence bodes extremely badly for those kids and for the future of a functional and co-operative society.
I guess we're an evolutionary dead end. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| General census of opinion..... on 09:11 - Jul 27 with 1948 views | Keno |
I think it has its limits, and I'm not sure we quite know what they are yet. I suspect some are expecting it to be able to more than it can.
it turing into an interesting debate |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 09:31 - Jul 27 with 1933 views | StokieBlue |
I think your question is too nebulous.
There are huge differences between ML systems, for instance a system designed to spot cancer much earlier would be a huge benefit whilst a system used to generate deepfakes would be a huge problem.
The main issue with AI over the short to medium term is going to be it's affect on jobs and what happens around that. Hopefully some form of levy can be implemented for each AI instance used and that can be used to partially fund something like UBI.
SB |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 09:46 - Jul 27 with 1903 views | WD19 |
How long have you got?
Mostly it is consistent with my view that the year 2000 approx marked an inflexion point where the human race began to reverse evolution and hasten our own demise.
Through my work I am spending a lot of time focusing on Generative AI and large language models. Society is not ready for the change. Think the closure of the coal mines, but impacting pretty much anyone who does a white collar job. [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:06]
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| General census of opinion..... on 09:56 - Jul 27 with 1890 views | DJR |
| General census of opinion..... on 09:31 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
I think your question is too nebulous.
There are huge differences between ML systems, for instance a system designed to spot cancer much earlier would be a huge benefit whilst a system used to generate deepfakes would be a huge problem.
The main issue with AI over the short to medium term is going to be it's affect on jobs and what happens around that. Hopefully some form of levy can be implemented for each AI instance used and that can be used to partially fund something like UBI.
SB |
I suppose AI is just the latest advance in technology which perhaps started with the machinery that led to the Luddites. Indeed, the "hole in the wall" bank machines started in the 60s, and probably precipitated the decline in the need for bank staff. And those machines themselves used a form of AI to, say, check whether a person had funds in their account to make a withdrawal.
The question then arises as to whether the more advanced AI that we are now seeing will accelerate job losses anymore than, say, self-checkouts in supermarkets. And if that is the case, great thought will need to be given to how ameliorate the adverse consequences.
For me, the more sinister aspect is AI being used for nefarious reasons, including cheating in exams, writing novels and political manipulation. As regards writing novels, I have already heard of one science fiction publisher which has stopped people from submitting novels in draft, which to my mind is rather scary, as well as being unfair on potential authors.
EDIT: a current example of technology affecting jobs is the plan to close ticket offices. Ticket machines have been available for years, but only now are ticket offices being closed, which I think is a disgrace given the impact on elderly and vulnerable people. But that's what happens when public services are no longer run in the public interest. What will happen is that lots of workers in ticket offices, on relatively high pay because of unionisation, will never get replacement jobs which will pay anywhere near what they are currently paid. But sadly that's the world we have been living in for years. [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:32]
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| General census of opinion..... on 10:12 - Jul 27 with 1857 views | StokieBlue |
| General census of opinion..... on 09:56 - Jul 27 by DJR |
I suppose AI is just the latest advance in technology which perhaps started with the machinery that led to the Luddites. Indeed, the "hole in the wall" bank machines started in the 60s, and probably precipitated the decline in the need for bank staff. And those machines themselves used a form of AI to, say, check whether a person had funds in their account to make a withdrawal.
The question then arises as to whether the more advanced AI that we are now seeing will accelerate job losses anymore than, say, self-checkouts in supermarkets. And if that is the case, great thought will need to be given to how ameliorate the adverse consequences.
For me, the more sinister aspect is AI being used for nefarious reasons, including cheating in exams, writing novels and political manipulation. As regards writing novels, I have already heard of one science fiction publisher which has stopped people from submitting novels in draft, which to my mind is rather scary, as well as being unfair on potential authors.
EDIT: a current example of technology affecting jobs is the plan to close ticket offices. Ticket machines have been available for years, but only now are ticket offices being closed, which I think is a disgrace given the impact on elderly and vulnerable people. But that's what happens when public services are no longer run in the public interest. What will happen is that lots of workers in ticket offices, on relatively high pay because of unionisation, will never get replacement jobs which will pay anywhere near what they are currently paid. But sadly that's the world we have been living in for years. [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:32]
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"The question then arises as to whether the more advanced AI that we are now seeing will accelerate job losses anymore than, say, self-checkouts in supermarkets. And if that is the case, great thought will need to be given to how ameliorate the adverse consequences."
It will have a far large impact that something like self-checkouts. The majority of first-line call centres and support bots could be replaced pretty quickly, For example, BT has already announced that it will cut 10,000 jobs and replace them with AI systems by 2030 and that is the tip of the iceberg.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| General census of opinion..... on 10:29 - Jul 27 with 1843 views | EddyJ |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:12 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
"The question then arises as to whether the more advanced AI that we are now seeing will accelerate job losses anymore than, say, self-checkouts in supermarkets. And if that is the case, great thought will need to be given to how ameliorate the adverse consequences."
It will have a far large impact that something like self-checkouts. The majority of first-line call centres and support bots could be replaced pretty quickly, For example, BT has already announced that it will cut 10,000 jobs and replace them with AI systems by 2030 and that is the tip of the iceberg.
SB |
I suspect a well-trained chatbot will resolve issues faster and give better customer service than 90% of call centre workers currently do. Especially if an easy option is available to escalate complex cases to humans. | | | |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:32 - Jul 27 with 1835 views | StokieBlue |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:29 - Jul 27 by EddyJ |
I suspect a well-trained chatbot will resolve issues faster and give better customer service than 90% of call centre workers currently do. Especially if an easy option is available to escalate complex cases to humans. |
That's probably true.
It doesn't however help the 10,000 people at BT without a job. That's why I expect there will be some form of financial penalty for companies which take this route and probably some form of UBI.
Might take a while to get there though.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| General census of opinion..... on 10:38 - Jul 27 with 1814 views | WD19 |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:29 - Jul 27 by EddyJ |
I suspect a well-trained chatbot will resolve issues faster and give better customer service than 90% of call centre workers currently do. Especially if an easy option is available to escalate complex cases to humans. |
Was listening to the boss of Octopus Energy the other day and this is already measurably the case. Satisfaction much higher with AI responses. | | | |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:41 - Jul 27 with 1812 views | DJR |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:12 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
"The question then arises as to whether the more advanced AI that we are now seeing will accelerate job losses anymore than, say, self-checkouts in supermarkets. And if that is the case, great thought will need to be given to how ameliorate the adverse consequences."
It will have a far large impact that something like self-checkouts. The majority of first-line call centres and support bots could be replaced pretty quickly, For example, BT has already announced that it will cut 10,000 jobs and replace them with AI systems by 2030 and that is the tip of the iceberg.
SB |
You probably didn't see my edit, but cutting staff has been going on for decades now that the bottom line is the shareholder. Indeed, BT are cutting 45,000 additional staff in the same period.
Of course, I am not saying AI won't have an effect, but the issue for me is that all job losses, for all reasons, are designed to cut costs, and appear to lead to those affected being re-employed on worse terms, and that to me is the real issue.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:47]
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| General census of opinion..... on 10:45 - Jul 27 with 1792 views | StokieBlue |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:41 - Jul 27 by DJR |
You probably didn't see my edit, but cutting staff has been going on for decades now that the bottom line is the shareholder. Indeed, BT are cutting 45,000 additional staff in the same period.
Of course, I am not saying AI won't have an effect, but the issue for me is that all job losses, for all reasons, are designed to cut costs, and appear to lead to those affected being re-employed on worse terms, and that to me is the real issue.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:47]
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These jobs aren't going to have re-employment.
Once an AI is in place and working those jobs are gone. That's why as a society we need to work out how we are going to fund support people when many more people aren't working hence the need for something like UBI.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| General census of opinion..... on 10:56 - Jul 27 with 1763 views | DJR |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:45 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
These jobs aren't going to have re-employment.
Once an AI is in place and working those jobs are gone. That's why as a society we need to work out how we are going to fund support people when many more people aren't working hence the need for something like UBI.
SB |
Sadly, given the short-term nature of politics in this country and the fact that the two main parties support the economic status quo, I rather doubt that any proper consideration will be given to this matter, including the question of what role in society, and purpose in life, people with no prospect of employment will have, if that turns out to be the outcome. [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 22:12]
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| General census of opinion..... on 11:02 - Jul 27 with 1744 views | NthQldITFC |
| General census of opinion..... on 10:32 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
That's probably true.
It doesn't however help the 10,000 people at BT without a job. That's why I expect there will be some form of financial penalty for companies which take this route and probably some form of UBI.
Might take a while to get there though.
SB |
It will be a messy process until the profiteers realise they have to take their foot of the throttle, at the very least a little bit, to fund that which will maintain law and order and protect their ivory towers. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| General census of opinion..... on 16:45 - Jul 27 with 1623 views | EddyJ |
If call centre jobs are obsolete, we shouldn't hang on to them for the sake of providing employment.
But we also need to make sure people are not left behind and have sufficient training and employment opportunities to find new work. We must not repeat the mistakes made when the mines and steelworks in the north of England closed and entire communities were devastated. | | | |
| General census of opinion..... on 19:31 - Jul 27 with 1559 views | eireblue |
| General census of opinion..... on 16:45 - Jul 27 by EddyJ |
If call centre jobs are obsolete, we shouldn't hang on to them for the sake of providing employment.
But we also need to make sure people are not left behind and have sufficient training and employment opportunities to find new work. We must not repeat the mistakes made when the mines and steelworks in the north of England closed and entire communities were devastated. |
If history has taught us anything, it is that we are very good at repeating the mistakes of the past. |  | | |
| General census of opinion..... on 19:45 - Jul 27 with 1540 views | nodge_blue |
AI coupled with quantum computing means nothing is secure. And someone will try to exploit it.
Thats the trouble with humans, as much as it all could do good, someone or some state will use it as an attack method.
That aside, its also troubling that AI is doing stuff that the programmers are surprised at. Effectively the very clever algorithms give it a degree if making its own choices based on what it finds. That to all intents and purposes is AI. I think it is more than machine learning as i think its not making decisions within set parameters but has more autonomy. I read somewhere that one of them taught itself a language when it hadnt been instructed to. That shows more a desire or reason to do something rather than just a machine learning patterns.
I think these early stages of AI are fairly safe but i wouldnt say that there wont be problems along the way. [Post edited 27 Jul 2023 19:50]
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| General census of opinion..... on 21:13 - Jul 27 with 1460 views | GavTWTD |
I think it could be a massive force for good and bad.
They could use it to "stop the boats" by monitoring the French coastline 24/7. I did get it to produce a biography of a.town player but it was limited as it didn't have the last couple of years data. That in itself raised.questions like "how are they storing that much data and not using live sources",
Bad stuff I don't want to contemplate. |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 21:27 - Jul 27 with 1439 views | Lesta_Tractor |
Working as a data analyst I'm fairly certain that AI/Machine Learning is going to completely change my job if not take it completely |  |
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| General census of opinion..... on 21:28 - Jul 27 with 1437 views | J2BLUE |
The main thing it seems to be being used for at the moment is people outsourcing their opinion on things.
I asked ChatGPT about x and this is what it said...
Incredibly dull, boring and unoriginal but these people seem to think they are doing something interesting. |  |
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