| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 with 2198 views | DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:16 - Jan 4 with 2126 views | Keno |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 by DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |
"I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is"
I suspect he is trying to create a news story to deflect from the strikes, the NHS, inflation, interest rates, corruption, mis management etc etc etc |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:17 - Jan 4 with 2123 views | Blueschev |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 by DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |
I fear for the health of the current cabinet, the amount of fag packets they get through. |  | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:23 - Jan 4 with 2115 views | Guthrum |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 by DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |
Probably just the usual demented tokenism. Everyone must learn science and engineering because there are so many technical manufacturing jobs in British service industry ... |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:23 - Jan 4 with 2114 views | Basuco |
I am not sure what this will achieve, if 11 or 12 years of maths schooling is not enough to give pupils the required skills then an extra two years will not be much use. It would make more sense to look at why maths teaching is failing at an earlier stage, if it is?
My guess without any knowledge would be down to class size, increase school budgets and employ more teachers would greatly improve the quality of teaching. I do not think it is anything to do with teachers, just pupil /teacher ratios. |  | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:24 - Jan 4 with 2106 views | Basuco |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:16 - Jan 4 by Keno |
"I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is"
I suspect he is trying to create a news story to deflect from the strikes, the NHS, inflation, interest rates, corruption, mis management etc etc etc |
Add cuts to education budgets to that list as well. | | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:30 - Jan 4 with 2078 views | itfcjoe |
I think they should ensure everyone leaves school with a functional level of maths, equivalent of C in old school GCSEs or their Functional Skills cert you do as part of an apprenticeship, but for others what is the point?
I loved Maths, did Maths and Further Maths at A level, Maths and Statistics at uni (on a course I dropped out of) but had plenty of friends who had A* or A at GCSE maths that wanted to study History, English, Languages, Sciences that just didn't do, or need to do, A Level maths as they were clearly competent. |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:57 - Jan 4 with 1957 views | EJP |
I’d rather they taught financial life skills …
Understanding your tax code
Understanding how much tax you pay
What APR means with regards to loans
Basic stuff which we currently have to discover ourselves. |  | | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:02 - Jan 4 with 1914 views | brazil1982 |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:23 - Jan 4 by Guthrum |
Probably just the usual demented tokenism. Everyone must learn science and engineering because there are so many technical manufacturing jobs in British service industry ... |
What do you mean by technical manufacturing?
There are approx 6 million people employed in engineering in the UK, and 2.7 million in manufacturing. The UK is the 9th largest manufacturer in the world by output, so I'd say it's a strong area of employment. |  | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:13 - Jan 4 with 1850 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 by DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |
This was a Gove policy statement back in 2011. It's now being used as a distraction. |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:18 - Jan 4 with 1834 views | Guthrum |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:02 - Jan 4 by brazil1982 |
What do you mean by technical manufacturing?
There are approx 6 million people employed in engineering in the UK, and 2.7 million in manufacturing. The UK is the 9th largest manufacturer in the world by output, so I'd say it's a strong area of employment. |
Which is roughly 18% and 8% of the workforce respectively. Not insignificant, but hardly an overwhelming proportion either.
How many even of those jobs actually require an advanced (i.e. post-GCSE) level of maths? Let alone the vast number who work in offices, shops, construction, etc?
Far better to have apprenticeships where people learn the specific skills and knowleges (mathematical or otherwise) they will need for a career.
Did A-level maths myself, by the way. | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:28 - Jan 4 with 1805 views | DJR |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:30 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
I think they should ensure everyone leaves school with a functional level of maths, equivalent of C in old school GCSEs or their Functional Skills cert you do as part of an apprenticeship, but for others what is the point?
I loved Maths, did Maths and Further Maths at A level, Maths and Statistics at uni (on a course I dropped out of) but had plenty of friends who had A* or A at GCSE maths that wanted to study History, English, Languages, Sciences that just didn't do, or need to do, A Level maths as they were clearly competent. |
I think that's absolutely right. But one of the issues we have in this country is that many people seem to be proud saying "I'm not good at maths" which I don't think helps. |  | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:33 - Jan 4 with 1753 views | Churchman |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:16 - Jan 4 by Keno |
"I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is"
I suspect he is trying to create a news story to deflect from the strikes, the NHS, inflation, interest rates, corruption, mis management etc etc etc |
Just a ‘bury the bad news’ story. There’s nothing in it.
Governments for years have used education as a political football without any idea what they are doing or why. There’s a reason why people like Mrs C gave up teaching much earlier than she should have. It’s not a job I’d have wanted to do for all the tea in China - or been capable of doing, let alone with political meddling, targets, etc etc. Teaching is a highly skilled vocation and people doing it have been mistreated for years.
As a matter of interest, I don’t understand why the invisible man chose 18. Back in the days of quill pens and parchment, I did maths to 16 and couldn’t wait to give it up. I managed to scrape an O Level with a lot of work, but it was clear than and subsequently that I don’t have much mathematical aptitude. Doing it for a further 2 years at school would have been a total waste of time.
Now teaching children basic code at a very young age, as I believe they do in Finland or Sweden, is a really good idea. It’s a life skill. [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 11:35]
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:34 - Jan 4 with 1745 views | DJR |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:57 - Jan 4 by EJP |
I’d rather they taught financial life skills …
Understanding your tax code
Understanding how much tax you pay
What APR means with regards to loans
Basic stuff which we currently have to discover ourselves. |
A compulsory short GCSE in such a subject would be a good idea, and could be combined with rudimentary arithmetic for those who struggle.
But where are we going to find the teachers? [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 11:35]
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:38 - Jan 4 with 1709 views | pointofblue |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:57 - Jan 4 by EJP |
I’d rather they taught financial life skills …
Understanding your tax code
Understanding how much tax you pay
What APR means with regards to loans
Basic stuff which we currently have to discover ourselves. |
How to calculate a household budget as well. I have so many friends who are far more knowledgable than me on most aspects of life but this one alludes them. Or used to allude them; now we’re in the crisis we’re in I’m not sure if this would help as much. | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:39 - Jan 4 with 1693 views | DJR |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:33 - Jan 4 by Churchman |
Just a ‘bury the bad news’ story. There’s nothing in it.
Governments for years have used education as a political football without any idea what they are doing or why. There’s a reason why people like Mrs C gave up teaching much earlier than she should have. It’s not a job I’d have wanted to do for all the tea in China - or been capable of doing, let alone with political meddling, targets, etc etc. Teaching is a highly skilled vocation and people doing it have been mistreated for years.
As a matter of interest, I don’t understand why the invisible man chose 18. Back in the days of quill pens and parchment, I did maths to 16 and couldn’t wait to give it up. I managed to scrape an O Level with a lot of work, but it was clear than and subsequently that I don’t have much mathematical aptitude. Doing it for a further 2 years at school would have been a total waste of time.
Now teaching children basic code at a very young age, as I believe they do in Finland or Sweden, is a really good idea. It’s a life skill. [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 11:35]
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Interestingly, in the International Baccalaureate (which my daughter did) maths is compulsory to 18 (there are three levels to choose), but I agree with what you say in your penultimate paragraph, so logically continuation to 18 should only be for those who have not got a qualification in maths. [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 11:42]
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:40 - Jan 4 with 1684 views | baxterbasics |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:57 - Jan 4 by EJP |
I’d rather they taught financial life skills …
Understanding your tax code
Understanding how much tax you pay
What APR means with regards to loans
Basic stuff which we currently have to discover ourselves. |
Agree on this, as well as basic understanding of savings and investments.
I gather that part of the motivation here is Britain apparently lags other nations on maths literacy and most others do have some form of compulsory education to 18. But still not convinced it's right for every pupil. |  |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:44 - Jan 4 with 1643 views | DJR |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:13 - Jan 4 by You_Bloo_Right |
This was a Gove policy statement back in 2011. It's now being used as a distraction. |
I think this must fit with Gove's promotion of the so-called English Baccalaureate. | | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:58 - Jan 4 with 1580 views | Guthrum |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:40 - Jan 4 by baxterbasics |
Agree on this, as well as basic understanding of savings and investments.
I gather that part of the motivation here is Britain apparently lags other nations on maths literacy and most others do have some form of compulsory education to 18. But still not convinced it's right for every pupil. |
'... not convinced it's right for every pupil.' - my niece, for example. Didn't enjoy academic study at all. Got her GCSE maths, has now gone to college to study something vocational and entirely non-maths related.
Why should she be forced to effectively do an A-level she doesn't want or need, wouldn't enjoy and is irrelevant to her chosen career? | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:02 - Jan 4 with 1547 views | Guthrum |
I have an old friend who has the mathematical equivalent of dyslexia. He was capable of working through the processes of doing sums, but the answers would just come out wrong. Hasn't stopped him having a very successful career, becoming quite senior in his chosen field. | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:21 - Jan 4 with 1507 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:02 - Jan 4 by Guthrum |
I have an old friend who has the mathematical equivalent of dyslexia. He was capable of working through the processes of doing sums, but the answers would just come out wrong. Hasn't stopped him having a very successful career, becoming quite senior in his chosen field. |
What you really need to be able to do these days is know how to work Microsoft Excel. |  | | |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:40 - Jan 4 with 1430 views | baxterbasics |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 11:58 - Jan 4 by Guthrum |
'... not convinced it's right for every pupil.' - my niece, for example. Didn't enjoy academic study at all. Got her GCSE maths, has now gone to college to study something vocational and entirely non-maths related.
Why should she be forced to effectively do an A-level she doesn't want or need, wouldn't enjoy and is irrelevant to her chosen career? |
Indeed. My own daughter - now in her GCSE year - the same. Can't get her head around maths or science, doing better with the English and history . All she wants to do next is photography.
I myself crashed and burned with A Level maths. Not because I couldn't do it, I was just lazy and distracted at the time. Discovered Monday nights at Hollywoods which didn't help. | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:41 - Jan 4 with 1418 views | DJR |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:30 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
I think they should ensure everyone leaves school with a functional level of maths, equivalent of C in old school GCSEs or their Functional Skills cert you do as part of an apprenticeship, but for others what is the point?
I loved Maths, did Maths and Further Maths at A level, Maths and Statistics at uni (on a course I dropped out of) but had plenty of friends who had A* or A at GCSE maths that wanted to study History, English, Languages, Sciences that just didn't do, or need to do, A Level maths as they were clearly competent. |
Interestingly, I was one of those who did A-level maths along with two arts-based subjects. My intention was study law (which I did do), so I didn't need A-level maths, but I found pure maths fascinating. In those days, there wasn't maths and further maths, but pure maths and applied maths, but I didn't do the latter as that was really only for those going on to study something like engineering.
Perhaps Wikipedia describes pure maths best.
Pure mathematics is the study of mathematical concepts independently of any application outside mathematics. These concepts may originate in real-world concerns, and the results obtained may later turn out to be useful for practical applications, but pure mathematicians are not primarily motivated by such applications. Instead, the appeal is attributed to the intellectual challenge and aesthetic beauty of working out the logical consequences of basic principles. [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 12:46]
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:42 - Jan 4 with 1399 views | baxterbasics |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:21 - Jan 4 by Clapham_Junction |
What you really need to be able to do these days is know how to work Microsoft Excel. |
This for sure! Along with general 'Windows Office' functions.
Really surprised in recent years at new starters in the office who are clueless about basic PC use. All experts in Snapchat and TikTok of course... | |
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| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 12:43 - Jan 4 with 1394 views | hype313 |
| Sunak wants all pupils to study maths to age 18 on 10:08 - Jan 4 by DanTheMan |
I'm genuinely interested to know what the driver behind this is. Is this something the UK is particularly poor at? |
I get the idea around it, we are in, and going forward into a heavily data driven world so I can see the logic behind it.
But odd timing to come out with something like that whilst the country burns. |  |
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