| When, even, experts can't agree 13:11 - Aug 20 with 8871 views | homer_123 |
What hope was there, ever, for the public to make the right choice?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776
Is there any way in which we can bring Cameron to book for the referendum? It was only ever brought to try and resolve a bloody inparty issue.
That's a serious question? An he be charged for anything at all? |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:15 - Aug 20 with 4878 views | J2BLUE |
Over 50% of those eligible to vote who turned up to vote voted for us to leave. It's extremely arrogant to then ask if he can be charged for anything. On what grounds? Because remainers are convinced they are right and that they've been betrayed by the idiotic masses?
Democracy doesn't stop. Instead of things like this why aren't you campaigning for a second referendum? Convince enough people that you are right and public opinion will clearly change and you might get your second referendum. [Post edited 20 Aug 2017 13:17]
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:16 - Aug 20 with 4867 views | StokieBlue |
There are partisan "experts" on all sides - that's what should encourage debate.
Unfortunately in this case it tends to encourage shouting and fighting.
Cameron is not to blame, it may well have been a Tory party issue but it was in the manifesto and the people voted for that manifesto and thus it should have been implemented as it was.
You could make a better case for negligence during the campaign but then the same could be levelled at Labour to an even greater degree (Corbyn basically doing nothing).
SB |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:17 - Aug 20 with 4860 views | homer_123 |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:15 - Aug 20 by J2BLUE |
Over 50% of those eligible to vote who turned up to vote voted for us to leave. It's extremely arrogant to then ask if he can be charged for anything. On what grounds? Because remainers are convinced they are right and that they've been betrayed by the idiotic masses?
Democracy doesn't stop. Instead of things like this why aren't you campaigning for a second referendum? Convince enough people that you are right and public opinion will clearly change and you might get your second referendum. [Post edited 20 Aug 2017 13:17]
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My point is, regardless of how I voted, there should never have been a referendum.
It's an impossible choice. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:18 - Aug 20 with 4849 views | homer_123 |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:16 - Aug 20 by StokieBlue |
There are partisan "experts" on all sides - that's what should encourage debate.
Unfortunately in this case it tends to encourage shouting and fighting.
Cameron is not to blame, it may well have been a Tory party issue but it was in the manifesto and the people voted for that manifesto and thus it should have been implemented as it was.
You could make a better case for negligence during the campaign but then the same could be levelled at Labour to an even greater degree (Corbyn basically doing nothing).
SB |
There simply wasn't enough genuine expert debate, was there? | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:20 - Aug 20 with 4840 views | J2BLUE |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:17 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
My point is, regardless of how I voted, there should never have been a referendum.
It's an impossible choice. |
Says who? The Europe issue had been rumbling on for ages. People voted to join a common market originally. People had the right to have a say on whether we further integrated with the EU. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:21 - Aug 20 with 4836 views | StokieBlue |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:18 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
There simply wasn't enough genuine expert debate, was there? |
Certainly not, however it doesn't make your first point correct that there shouldn't have been a referendum.
People had the chance to stop it by not voting the Tories in previously.
The level of Brexit debate from both sides has been pretty shameful in my opinion. They both go for tail events at either end of the curve without actually looking into the more likely scenarios.
SB | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:23 - Aug 20 with 4827 views | The_Last_Baron |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:17 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
My point is, regardless of how I voted, there should never have been a referendum.
It's an impossible choice. |
What a ridiculous thing to say.
The public had every right to be given a vote on the UK's EU membership.
The debate ended on June 23rd last year. I believe the majority of the public made the right decision. Leaving the EU will benefit the people of the UK in every way, even if some let their fervent Europhile ideology cloud their judgment.
Brexit is magnificent. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:24 - Aug 20 with 4809 views | J2BLUE |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:23 - Aug 20 by The_Last_Baron |
What a ridiculous thing to say.
The public had every right to be given a vote on the UK's EU membership.
The debate ended on June 23rd last year. I believe the majority of the public made the right decision. Leaving the EU will benefit the people of the UK in every way, even if some let their fervent Europhile ideology cloud their judgment.
Brexit is magnificent. |
The debate ended on June 23rd last year.
No it didn't. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:25 - Aug 20 with 4814 views | Lord_Lucan |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:18 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
There simply wasn't enough genuine expert debate, was there? |
Both sides of the debate were astonishingly poor and Farage even conceded defeat early in the evening.
Swivel eyed loons and apathetic youngsters are also to blame.
Rather than harp on about The NHS they should have just told everyone that they would have to queue longer at airports, that might have been a better argument for the brain dead lot.
I mentioned on the Pakistani grooming thread the other day that the head in the sand approach by government and councils to racial problems and cultural differences forced many otherwise normal people to vote Brexit because they could see no other way of getting heard - and I genuinely think this is a massive reason it went the way it did. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:30 - Aug 20 with 4777 views | benno1uk |
Well nearly 50% of people realised that there was a huge risk of creating a shambles, which now appears to be unravelling, so voted to stay. [Post edited 20 Aug 2017 13:33]
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:33 - Aug 20 with 4763 views | J2BLUE |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:25 - Aug 20 by Lord_Lucan |
Both sides of the debate were astonishingly poor and Farage even conceded defeat early in the evening.
Swivel eyed loons and apathetic youngsters are also to blame.
Rather than harp on about The NHS they should have just told everyone that they would have to queue longer at airports, that might have been a better argument for the brain dead lot.
I mentioned on the Pakistani grooming thread the other day that the head in the sand approach by government and councils to racial problems and cultural differences forced many otherwise normal people to vote Brexit because they could see no other way of getting heard - and I genuinely think this is a massive reason it went the way it did. |
+1, apart from the loons and youngsters bit. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:36 - Aug 20 with 4742 views | meekreech |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:21 - Aug 20 by StokieBlue |
Certainly not, however it doesn't make your first point correct that there shouldn't have been a referendum.
People had the chance to stop it by not voting the Tories in previously.
The level of Brexit debate from both sides has been pretty shameful in my opinion. They both go for tail events at either end of the curve without actually looking into the more likely scenarios.
SB |
The only thing to agree on is the definition of an expert . My take on the definition of an expert is "" ex "" is a has been , and "" spert "" is a drip under pressure so comes out as something less than notable . |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:40 - Aug 20 with 4729 views | monytowbray |
My issue was never about in or out. I'm far from happy with the way the EU operates, but at the same time felt it had pros to it.
For me it was a Leave campaign built on this rosy nationalistic image of Britain being great and standing on our own (TAKE BACK CONTROL) without any real substance as to what benefits we'd get in leaving, let alone a plan to negiocate it on any terms. Not to add it was evident from the day that bloody NHS bus showed up that BoJo was lying through his teeth about what Brexit would bring us.
We voted for uncertainty and now we have politicans running around like headless chickens with no bargaining power, failing those who voted Leave as well as those who voted remain. It feels like Lib Dem betraying their core by shacking up in the Coalition in 2010 all over again for Leave voters and I'm amazed there is less outrage or demand of accountability from those who led them here. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:42 - Aug 20 with 4720 views | monytowbray |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:23 - Aug 20 by The_Last_Baron |
What a ridiculous thing to say.
The public had every right to be given a vote on the UK's EU membership.
The debate ended on June 23rd last year. I believe the majority of the public made the right decision. Leaving the EU will benefit the people of the UK in every way, even if some let their fervent Europhile ideology cloud their judgment.
Brexit is magnificent. |
Politics isn't a game of Football. You don't just finish a game and accept the result. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:45 - Aug 20 with 4701 views | StokieBlue |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:40 - Aug 20 by monytowbray |
My issue was never about in or out. I'm far from happy with the way the EU operates, but at the same time felt it had pros to it.
For me it was a Leave campaign built on this rosy nationalistic image of Britain being great and standing on our own (TAKE BACK CONTROL) without any real substance as to what benefits we'd get in leaving, let alone a plan to negiocate it on any terms. Not to add it was evident from the day that bloody NHS bus showed up that BoJo was lying through his teeth about what Brexit would bring us.
We voted for uncertainty and now we have politicans running around like headless chickens with no bargaining power, failing those who voted Leave as well as those who voted remain. It feels like Lib Dem betraying their core by shacking up in the Coalition in 2010 all over again for Leave voters and I'm amazed there is less outrage or demand of accountability from those who led them here. |
Don't want to be a pain but didn't you vote for Labour based on a rosy image of a social democratic state with unworkable policies and impossible funding.
It's not really that different.
Politics in general is a total joke around the globe and our country is one of the worst offenders.
SB | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:47 - Aug 20 with 4691 views | monytowbray |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:45 - Aug 20 by StokieBlue |
Don't want to be a pain but didn't you vote for Labour based on a rosy image of a social democratic state with unworkable policies and impossible funding.
It's not really that different.
Politics in general is a total joke around the globe and our country is one of the worst offenders.
SB |
No, I voted for Labour based on the fact that I agreed with most of their policies.
As much as I am accused otherwise, I don't think Corbym has all the answers, nor do I agree with all of his ideas, but for me and many others he represents a change in modern mainstream politics that is long overdue. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:55 - Aug 20 with 4659 views | StokieBlue |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:47 - Aug 20 by monytowbray |
No, I voted for Labour based on the fact that I agreed with most of their policies.
As much as I am accused otherwise, I don't think Corbym has all the answers, nor do I agree with all of his ideas, but for me and many others he represents a change in modern mainstream politics that is long overdue. |
Fair enough.
I still don't see how that's any different to people voting leave because they liked what their heard. Labour policies could not be paid for, that has been independently verified but you voted for them because you liked what you heard.
I don't think Corbyn is that much different, he lies when he wants too (no seats on the train?) and avoids the question when he doesn't want to answer (no condemnation of Venezula's leader etc). Policies become aspirations when they are proven to be unworkable. I'm not saying any other party is any better on this front though.
Anyway, I shouldn't let this derail the main topic just thought it was an interesting aside given your reasoning.
SB | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:08 - Aug 20 with 4634 views | blue_oyster |
In some ways the referendum was a clumsy way of trying to solve a party political issue, even an unconstitutional way. One refreshing outcome is that it has forced discussion about one of the biggest issues that has divided the country since we joined. This issue has been cynically ignored by the main political parties as soon as they realised it benefits them, but not necessarily the people of this country, as the result demonstrated. [Post edited 20 Aug 2017 14:11]
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:21 - Aug 20 with 4601 views | LankHenners |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:33 - Aug 20 by J2BLUE |
+1, apart from the loons and youngsters bit. |
Why? He's not saying they were the sole reason for the result, but without doubt were a factor, however small. To ignore that is as bad as claiming it was all down to idiots and lazy people. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree (n/t) on 14:36 - Aug 20 with 4560 views | benno1uk |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:47 - Aug 20 by monytowbray |
No, I voted for Labour based on the fact that I agreed with most of their policies.
As much as I am accused otherwise, I don't think Corbym has all the answers, nor do I agree with all of his ideas, but for me and many others he represents a change in modern mainstream politics that is long overdue. |
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 14:37]
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:39 - Aug 20 with 4552 views | BlueBadger |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:30 - Aug 20 by benno1uk |
Well nearly 50% of people realised that there was a huge risk of creating a shambles, which now appears to be unravelling, so voted to stay. [Post edited 20 Aug 2017 13:33]
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I quite enjoyed all the people who wanted to 'cut red tape' now trying to defend leaving the customs union, single market etc with all the additional paperwork that both will generate. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:51 - Aug 20 with 4529 views | BlueBadger |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 13:33 - Aug 20 by J2BLUE |
+1, apart from the loons and youngsters bit. |
Oh come on now, you're BOTH. | |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:58 - Aug 20 with 4519 views | TractorWood |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:39 - Aug 20 by BlueBadger |
I quite enjoyed all the people who wanted to 'cut red tape' now trying to defend leaving the customs union, single market etc with all the additional paperwork that both will generate. |
None of whom have probably been involved with trading goods and services with the EU, which is currently unbelievably easy. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 15:00 - Aug 20 with 4512 views | factual_blue |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 14:39 - Aug 20 by BlueBadger |
I quite enjoyed all the people who wanted to 'cut red tape' now trying to defend leaving the customs union, single market etc with all the additional paperwork that both will generate. |
...And think of all the extra civil servants that will involve, what with the imaginative IT solution and everything.
Warning - when a politician (and particularly a tory one) starts talking about amazing IT solutions, you know he (or she) has been sold a line by Accenture, PwC, Capita, or one of the other Highly Profitable Consulting and IT firms.
If people want to look for those who are really ruining this country, get rid of those toxic firms, none of whom have done one decent or honest thing for this country in the past thirty years. |  |
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| When, even, experts can't agree on 15:03 - Aug 20 with 4499 views | StokieBlue |
| When, even, experts can't agree on 15:00 - Aug 20 by factual_blue |
...And think of all the extra civil servants that will involve, what with the imaginative IT solution and everything.
Warning - when a politician (and particularly a tory one) starts talking about amazing IT solutions, you know he (or she) has been sold a line by Accenture, PwC, Capita, or one of the other Highly Profitable Consulting and IT firms.
If people want to look for those who are really ruining this country, get rid of those toxic firms, none of whom have done one decent or honest thing for this country in the past thirty years. |
Why put a dig in at the Tories when the largest IT screw-up (the 10bn wasted on the NHS system) was commissioned and mostly done under a Labour government?
It's all a bit petty isn't it?
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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