| Under 20s World Cup Winners. 11:01 - Jun 12 with 2714 views | WestSussexBlue |
This says we are moving in the right direction with England Youth football. I Really hope though the FA are sat in the coming days, weeks etc and realise what a pivotal moment we are at.
Surely it's imperative now these young men are allowed to flourish and provide the future England team in say 6-8 years time.
I would encourage a cap on foreign players at all levels of the Premier league and not stun the talent which is undoubtedly emerging. |  | | |  |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:12 - Jun 12 with 2697 views | soupytwist |
One thing which was mentioned during the BBC commentary on yesterday's game was that about 5 of the squad qualify to play for Nigeria through their parents.
I expect that there are others in a similar situation for other countries. I don't know what we should do about that, if anything. If these players are benefitting from the experience provided by the English FA in tournaments and at St George's Park should we be getting them to commit to playing for England long term or is that unreasonable given that not all them will reach a standard where they'd be able to? |  | | |
| on 11:14 - Jun 12 with 2687 views | _ |
| | | |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:32 - Jun 12 with 2659 views | HarryWright |
I think it may be like a ' B side' hence why it was good news when Dozzell was put into the u19's instead to play at the euros instead of a less important tournament. |  | | |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:32 - Jun 12 with 2659 views | Radlett_blue |
There has been huge proliferation on international age group football. There are now U18s, U19s, U20s & U 21s. This has massively diluted the quality & I'd be surprised if many of the England U20 team do better than ply their trade in the 2nd or 3rd tier, let alone have a big international future. The last England age group side to win anything won a solitary full international cap between them. |  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:34 - Jun 12 with 2653 views | itfcjoe |
England have been very good at Youth Level for a number of years now, and have qualified for most U17, U19 and U21 tournaments than any other European country over the last 4-5 years (Bearing in mind only 8 qualify big guns miss out)
But the problem starts when players get to 18-19 and need first team football for their development and hit a wall - Dominic Solanke who won the Golden Ball as best player went to Holland in 15/16 and did ok, played a lot of games and was due to be back at Chelsea this season to push on and didn't play a minutes football. He has now signed for Liverpool.
When you look at the top players in the world they all play lots of football as a teenager, I know it is a little bit chicken and egg but these guys just won't get the chances to prove anything now - if the 'Class of 92' was graduating now then they would not come close to making the same impact - it's no longer a case of just being 'good enough'
What can be done? Most simple solution is B teams, but at what level do they play and what does it do to the English game? I personally think the whole ENglish game needs a restructure and would do something like this:
Tier 1 - Premier League - 20 teams
Tier 2 - Championship - 20 teams
Tier 3 - League 1 - 20 teams (B teams can be at this level but no higher)
Tier 4 - North plus South leagues of 20 teams each
Tier 5 - 4 regional leagues of 20 teams
180 teams in the top 5 tiers of football, not sure where B teams would start, but something needs to happen and we aren't going to get limits on squad sizes |  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:39 - Jun 12 with 2638 views | CaptainObvious |
Venezuela in the final and Maitland-Niles in the team? I'm slightly suspicious of how seriously other nations took this competition. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:40 - Jun 12 with 2631 views | itfcjoe |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:12 - Jun 12 by soupytwist |
One thing which was mentioned during the BBC commentary on yesterday's game was that about 5 of the squad qualify to play for Nigeria through their parents.
I expect that there are others in a similar situation for other countries. I don't know what we should do about that, if anything. If these players are benefitting from the experience provided by the English FA in tournaments and at St George's Park should we be getting them to commit to playing for England long term or is that unreasonable given that not all them will reach a standard where they'd be able to? |
This has something that France has always struggled with their Clairefontaine academy - so many countries can take French players that have been developed (Senegal, Algeria, Mali, Ghana, etc)
Basically anyone that is a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant will be able to play for another country - it's something that can't be avoided. A big issue currently is other home nations fighting for some players and cap tying them ridiculously early (and unfairly in many cases for the boy in my view)
Ben Woodburn is 17 and played 5 senior games and is in their senior squad, and they've just called up Ethan Ampadu who is 16 and was pulled out as is currently doing his GCSEs.
Harry Wilson has just had his 2nd call up, his 1st was nearly 5 years ago as a 16 year old when he was given a debut against belgium (2 or 3 minutes at the end of the game) and now he is tied to them for his career. I think that's really naughty personally. | |
| |
| on 11:42 - Jun 12 with 2621 views | _ |
| | | |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:43 - Jun 12 with 2615 views | Radlett_blue |
I think this reinforces my point about the dubious level of quality in many of these age group tournaments. | |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:44 - Jun 12 with 2615 views | itfcjoe |
Toulon tournament was basically an U18 side (there are Euro Championships at 17, 19 and 21 this summer, and the WC) and that was why Dozzell was initially in it.
After a few pull outs and promotions (like Dozzell) they ended up just calling up any players they wanted to have a look at this summer that weren't in any other squad or hadn't been called up by England before (Joe Worrall and Barnes)
Put simply it was the 18s and anyone else we wanted to have a look at this year. | |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:44 - Jun 12 with 2611 views | soupytwist |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:32 - Jun 12 by Radlett_blue |
There has been huge proliferation on international age group football. There are now U18s, U19s, U20s & U 21s. This has massively diluted the quality & I'd be surprised if many of the England U20 team do better than ply their trade in the 2nd or 3rd tier, let alone have a big international future. The last England age group side to win anything won a solitary full international cap between them. |
The fates of the players in the last England U20 team to get anywhere near as far in the same tournament (1993) can be seen at the bottom of this article -
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/07/italy-england-world-under-20-se
Be interesting to see how this side differs, if at all. | | | |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:47 - Jun 12 with 2602 views | hoppy |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:44 - Jun 12 by itfcjoe |
Toulon tournament was basically an U18 side (there are Euro Championships at 17, 19 and 21 this summer, and the WC) and that was why Dozzell was initially in it.
After a few pull outs and promotions (like Dozzell) they ended up just calling up any players they wanted to have a look at this summer that weren't in any other squad or hadn't been called up by England before (Joe Worrall and Barnes)
Put simply it was the 18s and anyone else we wanted to have a look at this year. |
Well, I suppose, given that background, they still did well to retain that one, but does give an idea to the overall quality of the tournament, I guess. |  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:47 - Jun 12 with 2597 views | soupytwist |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:40 - Jun 12 by itfcjoe |
This has something that France has always struggled with their Clairefontaine academy - so many countries can take French players that have been developed (Senegal, Algeria, Mali, Ghana, etc)
Basically anyone that is a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant will be able to play for another country - it's something that can't be avoided. A big issue currently is other home nations fighting for some players and cap tying them ridiculously early (and unfairly in many cases for the boy in my view)
Ben Woodburn is 17 and played 5 senior games and is in their senior squad, and they've just called up Ethan Ampadu who is 16 and was pulled out as is currently doing his GCSEs.
Harry Wilson has just had his 2nd call up, his 1st was nearly 5 years ago as a 16 year old when he was given a debut against belgium (2 or 3 minutes at the end of the game) and now he is tied to them for his career. I think that's really naughty personally. |
Of course, our very own Kevin Bru was at Clairefontaine and France's loss is Mauritius' gain. | | | |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:55 - Jun 12 with 2580 views | itfcjoe |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:32 - Jun 12 by Radlett_blue |
There has been huge proliferation on international age group football. There are now U18s, U19s, U20s & U 21s. This has massively diluted the quality & I'd be surprised if many of the England U20 team do better than ply their trade in the 2nd or 3rd tier, let alone have a big international future. The last England age group side to win anything won a solitary full international cap between them. |
The U17s squad that won the Euro's in 2010 have had Jack Butland, Michael Keane, John Flanagan, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ross Barkley, Saido Berahino, Harry Kane all play for England
Not all of them played at final tournament but were part of qualifiers etc.
Also players like Ben Gibson< Harry Maguire, Connor Wickham, Pat Bamford, Jamal Lascelles, Benik Afobe, Josh McEachran have all played a lot of football in top 2 tiers. A few others have done so the 97s did pretty well
The last team to win a title were the U17s in 2014 which formed the crux of the squad for yesterday so are still only 19/20 so unfair to suggest they should be in full squad. | |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:55 - Jun 12 with 2579 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Are the FA in a position to impose a cap on the PL?
I doubt it. |  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:59 - Jun 12 with 2571 views | J2BLUE |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:34 - Jun 12 by itfcjoe |
England have been very good at Youth Level for a number of years now, and have qualified for most U17, U19 and U21 tournaments than any other European country over the last 4-5 years (Bearing in mind only 8 qualify big guns miss out)
But the problem starts when players get to 18-19 and need first team football for their development and hit a wall - Dominic Solanke who won the Golden Ball as best player went to Holland in 15/16 and did ok, played a lot of games and was due to be back at Chelsea this season to push on and didn't play a minutes football. He has now signed for Liverpool.
When you look at the top players in the world they all play lots of football as a teenager, I know it is a little bit chicken and egg but these guys just won't get the chances to prove anything now - if the 'Class of 92' was graduating now then they would not come close to making the same impact - it's no longer a case of just being 'good enough'
What can be done? Most simple solution is B teams, but at what level do they play and what does it do to the English game? I personally think the whole ENglish game needs a restructure and would do something like this:
Tier 1 - Premier League - 20 teams
Tier 2 - Championship - 20 teams
Tier 3 - League 1 - 20 teams (B teams can be at this level but no higher)
Tier 4 - North plus South leagues of 20 teams each
Tier 5 - 4 regional leagues of 20 teams
180 teams in the top 5 tiers of football, not sure where B teams would start, but something needs to happen and we aren't going to get limits on squad sizes |
I despise the concept of B teams. For me it would be the death of the football pyramid to allow them. |  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 12:00 - Jun 12 with 2571 views | itfcjoe |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 11:43 - Jun 12 by Radlett_blue |
I think this reinforces my point about the dubious level of quality in many of these age group tournaments. |
Toulon is a 2nd rate tournament - even though it was given as part of the case for Southgate to be England manager, We would have pulled out of it but couldn't as defending Champions.
Priority for this summer would be:
Senior internationals
U21 tournament
U19 tournament
U17 tournament
U20 WC
Toulon
Which makes winning the WC a hell of an achievement - because it is the biggest tournament for African, Asian and South American sides and we've won it with players in senior and U21 squad that were eligible and promoted out of it - Rashford, Issy brown, Tammy Abraham; and Patrick Roberst was pulled out by Celtic for the Cup Final) | |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 12:17 - Jun 12 with 2521 views | Reuser_is_God |
Just got to hope some of these lads get regular football now.
The only names I recognised from watching games were the defender who was on loan at Brighton last year, Calvert Lewin, Lookman & Lewis Cook. Oh & AMN.
Josh Onomah looks quality, reckon he'll get some game time at Spurs next year.
Lewis Cook was our best player though, a real captains performance yesterday. [Post edited 12 Jun 2017 12:19]
|  |
| |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 12:41 - Jun 12 with 2467 views | HarryWright |
| Under 20s World Cup Winners. on 12:17 - Jun 12 by Reuser_is_God |
Just got to hope some of these lads get regular football now.
The only names I recognised from watching games were the defender who was on loan at Brighton last year, Calvert Lewin, Lookman & Lewis Cook. Oh & AMN.
Josh Onomah looks quality, reckon he'll get some game time at Spurs next year.
Lewis Cook was our best player though, a real captains performance yesterday. [Post edited 12 Jun 2017 12:19]
|
Onomah is the one with the most appearances in the premier league (only 13). | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
