| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! 13:19 - Feb 4 with 2038 views | Ryorry |
Had just written this in response to Badger's question re Labour on my thread about Noggin's Return - only for my post to disappear to the ether - but back-buttoned, & this was still there -
"It's to lure in floating voters & centrists to ensure winning GE*, then adopt more radical policies once their feet are under the table, strategy.
At least I hope so.
*Complacency & apathy are the two biggest worries, esp given the new ID requirements & gerrymandering."
And also again - welcome back Noggin!  |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:25 - Feb 4 with 1999 views | Pinewoodblue |
Think a lot of activists believe this, it keeps them in side, but can’t see it happening.
Tory light it is, an improvement on what we have but not as much an improvement as it ought to be.
Talking about reducing the burden on working people doesn’t make you a socialist. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:29 - Feb 4 with 1981 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't hold your breath with the radical stuff Ryorry...it simply will not be happening.
Edit...looks like your Noggin thread got pulled.
I wonder what happened? [Post edited 4 Feb 13:33]
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:33 - Feb 4 with 1960 views | Herbivore |
If that is the strategy it demonstrates Johnson levels of honesty. If they are going to implement radical policies they should be honest about that and it should form part of their proposed programme of government. If they plan to back door radical policies after running as Tory light that is not a good look. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:34 - Feb 4 with 1954 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:33 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
If that is the strategy it demonstrates Johnson levels of honesty. If they are going to implement radical policies they should be honest about that and it should form part of their proposed programme of government. If they plan to back door radical policies after running as Tory light that is not a good look. |
I think you know exactly how they will circle that particular square! | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:35 - Feb 4 with 1951 views | Ryorry |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:29 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't hold your breath with the radical stuff Ryorry...it simply will not be happening.
Edit...looks like your Noggin thread got pulled.
I wonder what happened? [Post edited 4 Feb 13:33]
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I'm a born optimist!
Radical probably wasn't the right word, but liberal doesn't sound right either - forward thinking, green & more socialist (including putting services like water & power provision back into public ownership) are what I'd like. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:38 - Feb 4 with 1934 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:35 - Feb 4 by Ryorry |
I'm a born optimist!
Radical probably wasn't the right word, but liberal doesn't sound right either - forward thinking, green & more socialist (including putting services like water & power provision back into public ownership) are what I'd like. |
That would be radical for this lot....not happening. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:39 - Feb 4 with 1931 views | Ryorry |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:29 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't hold your breath with the radical stuff Ryorry...it simply will not be happening.
Edit...looks like your Noggin thread got pulled.
I wonder what happened? [Post edited 4 Feb 13:33]
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Re your edit - people started dragging up history re DK, including contribution from a new/not-so-new poster drawing speculation, with the I guess inevitable sad consequence. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:48 - Feb 4 with 1906 views | Pinewoodblue |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:33 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
If that is the strategy it demonstrates Johnson levels of honesty. If they are going to implement radical policies they should be honest about that and it should form part of their proposed programme of government. If they plan to back door radical policies after running as Tory light that is not a good look. |
They won’t promote any policy likely to turn away potential votes. Unless something goes seriously wrong in the next few months the support of the left seems certain.
There is also the added bonus of the fall in support of SNP. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 14:11 - Feb 4 with 1865 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:39 - Feb 4 by Ryorry |
Re your edit - people started dragging up history re DK, including contribution from a new/not-so-new poster drawing speculation, with the I guess inevitable sad consequence. |
Fragile bored (sic) police! | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:25 - Feb 4 with 1795 views | J2BLUE |
Noggin is back? |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:30 - Feb 4 with 1777 views | Zx1988 |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:33 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
If that is the strategy it demonstrates Johnson levels of honesty. If they are going to implement radical policies they should be honest about that and it should form part of their proposed programme of government. If they plan to back door radical policies after running as Tory light that is not a good look. |
Disregarding any other comments about the likelihood of a volte face following an election win...
It may come across as dishonest, but is it perhaps what's required? Strip away a lot of the other issues with Corbyn, and he and the party were utterly pilloried for daring to suggest radical left-wing policies such as *checks notes* free broadband.
The way the client press will be working, the merest whiff of anything that could possibly deemed socialist would be electoral suicide for Labour right now. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:36 - Feb 4 with 1732 views | pointofblue |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:30 - Feb 4 by Zx1988 |
Disregarding any other comments about the likelihood of a volte face following an election win...
It may come across as dishonest, but is it perhaps what's required? Strip away a lot of the other issues with Corbyn, and he and the party were utterly pilloried for daring to suggest radical left-wing policies such as *checks notes* free broadband.
The way the client press will be working, the merest whiff of anything that could possibly deemed socialist would be electoral suicide for Labour right now. |
I wonder if it would be. Despite retaining the support of The Sun and The Mail, the Conservatives support is falling through the floor. This is the time where I think Labour could be adventurous and offering a brand new look to the country, with a more "respectable" face in Starmer. As it is they're to the right of Blair in 1997. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:40 - Feb 4 with 1705 views | Ryorry |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:25 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
Noggin is back? |
He is! I 'd only checked 5 mins before posting my OP that he was no longer a TWTD member, & got the "error" notification for his name (My memory, or lack of, triggered by remembering a Norwegian ITFC fan who was part of our informal supporters group in Leeds, on the thread about LUFC fans).
A few mins later looked to see who the starter post upvote was from, and lo and behold ..! Looks like he's been able to have his old account fully restored. [Post edited 4 Feb 15:49]
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:46 - Feb 4 with 1675 views | Ryorry |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:36 - Feb 4 by pointofblue |
I wonder if it would be. Despite retaining the support of The Sun and The Mail, the Conservatives support is falling through the floor. This is the time where I think Labour could be adventurous and offering a brand new look to the country, with a more "respectable" face in Starmer. As it is they're to the right of Blair in 1997. |
What I'd like to see is a far stronger, more positive attitude towards a green economy, pointing out the enormous gaps in markets for green industries like forestry, renewables (particularly ocean-harnessing technology) etc.
That we have to import wood pellets for biomass boilers at exhorbitant cost & carbon footprint from E. Europe etc. is absolutely ridiculous given our landscape, climate & available workforce in areas like the NE. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:03 - Feb 4 with 1627 views | Herbivore |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:30 - Feb 4 by Zx1988 |
Disregarding any other comments about the likelihood of a volte face following an election win...
It may come across as dishonest, but is it perhaps what's required? Strip away a lot of the other issues with Corbyn, and he and the party were utterly pilloried for daring to suggest radical left-wing policies such as *checks notes* free broadband.
The way the client press will be working, the merest whiff of anything that could possibly deemed socialist would be electoral suicide for Labour right now. |
I don't necessarily agree. Part of the problem with Corbyn's policies was that he kept throwing new ones out there that were likely to be very expensive, individually many of the policies had support but it seemed far fetched that it could all be achieved without bankrupting the country. At present, the Tories are so deeply unpopular that you could probably go with Corbyn's entire manifesto and still get in. They could at least plump for some stuff that isn't just more of the same but a bit less evil.
The client press still go after Labour now as it is but it's not really shifting the dial on the polling and that is down to just how deep-rooted the disdain for the Tories is right now. The only people listening to them are the 20-25% of the electorate who would vote Putin in if he wore a blue rosette. If ever a party had a chance to be a bit bolder, it's Labour in the run up to the next GE. Unfortunately, there seems little appetite for such boldness. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:12 - Feb 4 with 1595 views | BlueBadger |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:40 - Feb 4 by Ryorry |
He is! I 'd only checked 5 mins before posting my OP that he was no longer a TWTD member, & got the "error" notification for his name (My memory, or lack of, triggered by remembering a Norwegian ITFC fan who was part of our informal supporters group in Leeds, on the thread about LUFC fans).
A few mins later looked to see who the starter post upvote was from, and lo and behold ..! Looks like he's been able to have his old account fully restored. [Post edited 4 Feb 15:49]
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I REALLY hope he did that to troll the 'be kind, no bullies' crowd who were crowing about his brief departure. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:16 - Feb 4 with 1577 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:03 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
I don't necessarily agree. Part of the problem with Corbyn's policies was that he kept throwing new ones out there that were likely to be very expensive, individually many of the policies had support but it seemed far fetched that it could all be achieved without bankrupting the country. At present, the Tories are so deeply unpopular that you could probably go with Corbyn's entire manifesto and still get in. They could at least plump for some stuff that isn't just more of the same but a bit less evil.
The client press still go after Labour now as it is but it's not really shifting the dial on the polling and that is down to just how deep-rooted the disdain for the Tories is right now. The only people listening to them are the 20-25% of the electorate who would vote Putin in if he wore a blue rosette. If ever a party had a chance to be a bit bolder, it's Labour in the run up to the next GE. Unfortunately, there seems little appetite for such boldness. |
I’ve not done the maths, but I suspect Corbyn’s manifesto would have been cheaper than the amount wasted over the last 13 years through poor government. And we may have had something at the end of it. Just guesswork though - throw in the cost of Brexit, lost investment, etc., and recent governments have been VERY expensive. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:20 - Feb 4 with 1562 views | giant_stow |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:03 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
I don't necessarily agree. Part of the problem with Corbyn's policies was that he kept throwing new ones out there that were likely to be very expensive, individually many of the policies had support but it seemed far fetched that it could all be achieved without bankrupting the country. At present, the Tories are so deeply unpopular that you could probably go with Corbyn's entire manifesto and still get in. They could at least plump for some stuff that isn't just more of the same but a bit less evil.
The client press still go after Labour now as it is but it's not really shifting the dial on the polling and that is down to just how deep-rooted the disdain for the Tories is right now. The only people listening to them are the 20-25% of the electorate who would vote Putin in if he wore a blue rosette. If ever a party had a chance to be a bit bolder, it's Labour in the run up to the next GE. Unfortunately, there seems little appetite for such boldness. |
I do feel for labour right now. The country's in such a monumental state - we need to somehow spend so much more money on so many things, but how to pay for it?
'Normal' people are already taxed pretty heavily on income at least - or are when you consider how stretched a lot of household budgets already are. Throw in student debt, I can't see any way out other than some serious redistributive policies, which target built up, often generational wealth.
To achieve that will take a massive change of society's mindset - I don't blame Labour for starting that process gently - I just hope they will come through on the rest.
Yours, mr gullible. |  |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:23 - Feb 4 with 1551 views | Clapham_Junction |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 15:30 - Feb 4 by Zx1988 |
Disregarding any other comments about the likelihood of a volte face following an election win...
It may come across as dishonest, but is it perhaps what's required? Strip away a lot of the other issues with Corbyn, and he and the party were utterly pilloried for daring to suggest radical left-wing policies such as *checks notes* free broadband.
The way the client press will be working, the merest whiff of anything that could possibly deemed socialist would be electoral suicide for Labour right now. |
While I think you are right that it would potentially be a good strategy for Labour to be more radical once in power than they propose going into an election, I really don't think it is going to happen with the current leadership. I said it on the thread the other day, but I suspect that if they do do anything radical, it will not be in a good way (Wes Streeting is dropping lots of ominous hints about what he has planned for the NHS).
I don't think I have ever been so uninspired and depressed about a potential Labour government. And as always, the real risk of them failing to address to fundamental socio-economic issues will be disenchanted people turning to far-right populists. Years of centrist government in France have done the same and Marie Le Pen looks to be on track to win the next presidential election. |  | | |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 17:28 - Feb 4 with 1448 views | Bugs |
The party have been booting out people and blocking them from elected positions if they express views that are left of Thatcher. They are now being bankrolled by organisations, where anything too radical would be bad for those organisations profits. The reason they are bankrolling labour is to make sure that doesn't happen.
If they for some reason the labour leadership did try and do a bit of light socialism, you would suddenly find they are all racists and antisemites.
They will be as radical as vanilla ice cream. |  | | |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 17:47 - Feb 4 with 1398 views | EdwardStone |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:03 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
I don't necessarily agree. Part of the problem with Corbyn's policies was that he kept throwing new ones out there that were likely to be very expensive, individually many of the policies had support but it seemed far fetched that it could all be achieved without bankrupting the country. At present, the Tories are so deeply unpopular that you could probably go with Corbyn's entire manifesto and still get in. They could at least plump for some stuff that isn't just more of the same but a bit less evil.
The client press still go after Labour now as it is but it's not really shifting the dial on the polling and that is down to just how deep-rooted the disdain for the Tories is right now. The only people listening to them are the 20-25% of the electorate who would vote Putin in if he wore a blue rosette. If ever a party had a chance to be a bit bolder, it's Labour in the run up to the next GE. Unfortunately, there seems little appetite for such boldness. |
Corbyn in election mode reminded me of a kiddie with unlimited pocket money in a sweet shop.... ordering up more sherbert lemons, more cola bottles, more pear drops in an incohertent and unstructured manner.....
Edit....
Tetchy Grandpa in a sweet shop |  | | |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 17:48 - Feb 4 with 1398 views | Pinewoodblue |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 16:23 - Feb 4 by Clapham_Junction |
While I think you are right that it would potentially be a good strategy for Labour to be more radical once in power than they propose going into an election, I really don't think it is going to happen with the current leadership. I said it on the thread the other day, but I suspect that if they do do anything radical, it will not be in a good way (Wes Streeting is dropping lots of ominous hints about what he has planned for the NHS).
I don't think I have ever been so uninspired and depressed about a potential Labour government. And as always, the real risk of them failing to address to fundamental socio-economic issues will be disenchanted people turning to far-right populists. Years of centrist government in France have done the same and Marie Le Pen looks to be on track to win the next presidential election. |
Can see NHS privatised in many ways, but by a different name. They will call them partnerships. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 18:39 - Feb 4 with 1337 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 17:48 - Feb 4 by Pinewoodblue |
Can see NHS privatised in many ways, but by a different name. They will call them partnerships. |
It's committed socialist Wes Streeting.....be in no doubt, it's coming. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 19:16 - Feb 4 with 1287 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 13:25 - Feb 4 by Pinewoodblue |
Think a lot of activists believe this, it keeps them in side, but can’t see it happening.
Tory light it is, an improvement on what we have but not as much an improvement as it ought to be.
Talking about reducing the burden on working people doesn’t make you a socialist. |
I feel the same. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time and all that. We may well end up with something not too dissimilar to One Nation Conservatism, which while not ideal will still be an improvement upon the rampantly corrupt and incompetent BNP Conservatism that we have now. | |
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| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 19:26 - Feb 4 with 1263 views | DJR |
| My perspicacious insight re Labour Party tactics rescued from the ether! on 18:39 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's committed socialist Wes Streeting.....be in no doubt, it's coming. |
Wes Streeting, the man who as President of the NUS supported tuition fees because it was Labour policy. [Post edited 4 Feb 19:40]
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