| A simple uppie/downie thread... 16:31 - Jan 5 with 7252 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Gaza, immediate ceasefire now? |  |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:34 - Jan 5 with 2769 views | chicoazul |
Does that apply to *all* sides in the conflict? |  |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:40 - Jan 5 with 2749 views | factual_blue |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:45 - Jan 5 with 2713 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:34 - Jan 5 by chicoazul |
Does that apply to *all* sides in the conflict? |
All armed factions and I.D.F. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:47 - Jan 5 with 2704 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:40 - Jan 5 by factual_blue |
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Stop stirring and vote.
I can't! | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:55 - Jan 5 with 2674 views | J2BLUE |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:45 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
All armed factions and I.D.F. |
What happens to Hamas?
They just attack again when they have recovered and strengthened? |  |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:10 - Jan 5 with 2633 views | factual_blue |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:47 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Stop stirring and vote.
I can't! |
Surely an immediate ceasefire is, ipso facto, now?
A ceasefire next week isn't immediate. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:13 - Jan 5 with 2622 views | DJR |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:55 - Jan 5 by J2BLUE |
What happens to Hamas?
They just attack again when they have recovered and strengthened? |
Israel's goals shift after fighting 90 days, taking out Hamas seems off the table
“A gap is developing between the goals of the war as stated and what is actually happening on the ground.”
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780965 [Post edited 5 Jan 17:13]
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:17 - Jan 5 with 2570 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 16:55 - Jan 5 by J2BLUE |
What happens to Hamas?
They just attack again when they have recovered and strengthened? |
Who knows...the vote is about right now. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:21 - Jan 5 with 2546 views | J2BLUE |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:17 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who knows...the vote is about right now. |
Not sure you can ask for a ceasefire and just say who knows about terrorist attacks in the future.
I will read the link above a bit later when I leave off work. Thanks for posting DJR. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:31 - Jan 5 with 2491 views | DJR |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:21 - Jan 5 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can ask for a ceasefire and just say who knows about terrorist attacks in the future.
I will read the link above a bit later when I leave off work. Thanks for posting DJR. |
I don't know to what extent it is correct, but as it comes from an Israeli source, I thought it was interesting. And it mustn't be forgotten that war rhetoric (such as the promise to eliminate Hamas) may in itself be only rhetoric.
EDIT: I forgot to add that I can't see Israel ever allowing an attack like 7 October to happen again, although whatever they do to Hamas, I don't think they can ever stop lesser attacks such as those by a lone gunman. [Post edited 5 Jan 17:40]
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:33 - Jan 5 with 2469 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:10 - Jan 5 by factual_blue |
Surely an immediate ceasefire is, ipso facto, now?
A ceasefire next week isn't immediate. |
The forum has a lot of power and the World is waiting....so, yes, now. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:38 - Jan 5 with 2426 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:21 - Jan 5 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can ask for a ceasefire and just say who knows about terrorist attacks in the future.
I will read the link above a bit later when I leave off work. Thanks for posting DJR. |
But the thing is you can J2 and a few tens of thousands get to not be killed or injured while the future is worked on. It also gets to take the heat from elsewhere in the region so I can't see how anyone would not vote yes....and yet. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:56 - Jan 5 with 2367 views | J2BLUE |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:38 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
But the thing is you can J2 and a few tens of thousands get to not be killed or injured while the future is worked on. It also gets to take the heat from elsewhere in the region so I can't see how anyone would not vote yes....and yet. |
I'm all for avoiding people being killed. Just not sure how realistic it is to not have any sort of plan. No one has downvoted...
Why would we agree if we have no idea what the next steps look like? I will now stand aside so someone can make a Brexit joke... | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:58 - Jan 5 with 2361 views | factual_blue |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:33 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The forum has a lot of power and the World is waiting....so, yes, now. |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:09 - Jan 5 with 2301 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Only a Guardian reader would make such an absurd and childish request. |  |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:14 - Jan 5 with 2295 views | BloomBlue |
Yes but only if Hamas release all the hostages. |  | | |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:16 - Jan 5 with 2293 views | berkstractorboy |
If this were a ceasefire agreed by IDF and Hamas and all other militant factions around the region, i.e. don't want Hezbollah doing something as they say they weren't part of the ceasefire then yes of course I want this and NOW.
I think others have eluded to it, I am not armed with sufficient information to understand future ramifications like offshoots of Hamas building an arsenal and then attacking. I am not sure any party can be trusted in that region to keep to a promise they make so I fear a ceasefire would only temporarily stop the killings.
My heart says Yes and a peaceful resolution will be found but my head says this is too deep rooted to be resolved with a ceasefire as no party can be trusted. [Post edited 5 Jan 18:18]
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:19 - Jan 5 with 2284 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 17:56 - Jan 5 by J2BLUE |
I'm all for avoiding people being killed. Just not sure how realistic it is to not have any sort of plan. No one has downvoted...
Why would we agree if we have no idea what the next steps look like? I will now stand aside so someone can make a Brexit joke... |
"Why would we agree if we have no idea what the next steps look like?"
....I am struggling to understand how anybody wouldn't. I would be interested to hear from some outspoken forum members who haven't voted as yet what their thinking is for not expressing a view on this straightforward proposition. | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:21 - Jan 5 with 2275 views | DJR |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:14 - Jan 5 by BloomBlue |
Yes but only if Hamas release all the hostages. |
Probably more chance of that with a ceasefire, and it could be a condition of the ceasefire. | | | |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:24 - Jan 5 with 2271 views | DJR |
If you're tempted to ignore, abstain or downvote, maybe these two passages will change your mind.
UN says 'time is running out' for Gaza children 'caught in a nightmare'
The head of the Unicef has said time is running out for children in Gaza who are “caught in a nightmare that worsens with every passing day”.
Catherine Russell said in a statement on Friday that children in the territory faced a “deadly triple threat” to their lives from the spread of diseases, plummeting nutrition and the escalation in fighting.
Living conditions for children were continuing to “rapidly deteriorate”, she said, noting the increasing cases of diarrhoea and food poverty.
Cases of diarrhoea in children under five rose from 48,000 to 71,000 in a week from 17 December, equivalent to 3,200 new cases a day, the agency said. Such an increase in such a short timeframe is a “strong indication that child health in the Gaza Strip is fast deteriorating”, Unicef said.
Russell said:
Children and families in the Gaza Strip continue to be killed and injured in the fighting, and their lives are increasingly at risk from preventable diseases and lack of food and water. All children and civilians must be protected from violence and have access to basic services and supplies.
Unicef also said most young children and women in the Gaza Strip were unable to meet their basic nutrition needs.
About 90% of children under the age of two are consuming two or fewer food groups, the agency said in a statement on Friday.
Most families said their children are only getting grains – including bread – or milk, which would meet the definition of severe food poverty, it said.
A quarter of pregnant and breastfeeding women said they only eat from one food group a day, it said.
The deteriorating situation is “raising concerns about acute malnutrition and mortality breaching famine thresholds”, it said, adding that it was particularly worried about the nutrition of more than 155,000 pregnant women and breastfeeding mothers, as well as more than 135,000 children under two.
“Unicef works to provide the life-saving aid the children of Gaza so desperately need. But we urgently need better and safer access to save children’s lives,” the agency’s executive director, Catherine Russell, said.
The futures of thousands more children in Gaza hang in the balance. The world cannot stand by and watch. The violence and the suffering of children must stop. | | | |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:31 - Jan 5 with 2245 views | MattinLondon |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:09 - Jan 5 by ElephantintheRoom |
Only a Guardian reader would make such an absurd and childish request. |
Not sure you’re the right one to call out other posters for childishness. |  | | |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:33 - Jan 5 with 2243 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:14 - Jan 5 by BloomBlue |
Yes but only if Hamas release all the hostages. |
For the purposes of this thread that would be for the future as the main concern here is that no more innocents, including hostages, die.
So perhaps your vote will be no for this reason? | |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:42 - Jan 5 with 2223 views | Guthrum |
Yes, to prevent further death and suffering. However, it cannot be conjured into existence by magic. Too much is at stake, plus the hostages and shedding of blood make it hard to draw back. Also, without a genuine follow-up (policing of the truce, negotiations, a realistic path forwards) the peace will be temporary and everybody will be back here in a couple of years.
It's a simple question, but not a trivial thing to achieve. |  |
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| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 19:07 - Jan 5 with 2171 views | BloomBlue |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 18:33 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
For the purposes of this thread that would be for the future as the main concern here is that no more innocents, including hostages, die.
So perhaps your vote will be no for this reason? |
But how would a ceasefire stop hamas from killing the hostages?
A ceasefire everyone is talking about is stopping hamas firing rockets against Israeli civilians and IDF firing against Palestinians. What about hamas simply shooting the hostages, or is that allowed
How does your form of ceasefire protect the hostages | | | |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 19:12 - Jan 5 with 2149 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A simple uppie/downie thread... on 19:07 - Jan 5 by BloomBlue |
But how would a ceasefire stop hamas from killing the hostages?
A ceasefire everyone is talking about is stopping hamas firing rockets against Israeli civilians and IDF firing against Palestinians. What about hamas simply shooting the hostages, or is that allowed
How does your form of ceasefire protect the hostages |
I'm pretty sure they have no history of killing hostages.
They are more likely to be killed under the current bombardment. [Post edited 5 Jan 19:13]
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