| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again 23:07 - Jun 13 with 1363 views | Swansea_Blue |
So the Labour lords tonight refused the opportunity to support Jenny Jones’ (Green Party) attempt to kill off the Tory’s use of SIs to override the will of Parliament.
They’re making it very hard to want to vote for them. Publicly opposing the attempts of workers to secure a fair wage through their unions. Apathetic on this Tory attempt to restrict our democratic right to protest by ignoring Parliament. Rolling back on policy ideas around nationalisation of obviously failing privatised services. Spinelessness on the devastating impacts of Brexit.
If it wasn’t for the fact that the Tories are unprecedentedly useless and corrupt, I wouldn’t entertain lending my vote to Labour. I will only vote for them because it’s a 2 horse race here (and our Labour MP is pretty genuine and decent in fairness, even if her leadership isn’t). Can we have a decent opposition that actually puts people first and a more representative voting system?
I’d love the Greens to be more prominent. There’s more humanity in Jenny Jones in the Lords and Caroline Lucas in the HoC than in the majority of Tory and Labour front benchers combined.
Anyway, this is Labour’s latest embarrassment for anyone who hasn’t seen it:
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:43 - Jun 13 with 1267 views | HARRY10 |
The sad reality is there are some calling for less democracy and far less local accountability. It is imperative that the decision on who should stand locally be kept to a local decision, not Head Office telling you who you have AFTER the vote.
Like wise the idea that policies can be 'horse traded'- away after a GE is a very dangerous route to go down. It means that 99.99999% of votes don't matter, as who runs the country will be decided by a half dozen or so politicians, in secret, in an unknown committee room.
This comes about through the extremely naive believe that decisions are not binary but are arrived at be committee. And there is no final vote merely some compromise.
We shall have capital punishment but in due accord with the Greens the noose will be made of organic hemp, our Jewish bethren have been listened to and Saturdays will not be use. While in deference to the progressive vote the condemned will be allowed to pull the lever himself
Whereas in the real world one party will have the final say - so please stop kidding yourselves, that having less democracy is the way to go. |  | | |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:48 - Jun 13 with 1247 views | ElderGrizzly |
I’m reading this is a ‘gamble’ that it’s now returned to the HoP where it is likely to be defeated? |  | | |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:49 - Jun 13 with 1241 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Joke party. Always have been, always will be. |  |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 00:01 - Jun 14 with 1213 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:48 - Jun 13 by ElderGrizzly |
I’m reading this is a ‘gamble’ that it’s now returned to the HoP where it is likely to be defeated? |
I think you mean the HoC.
The thought must be that labour does not want to oppose this 'back door ' legislation because it may need to use it itself.
While the problem of the Lords trying to stop legislation when it is only an advisory chamber is obvious, it should also be understood that this piece of legislation has been defeated in the lower house. To over come this the Tories are using what's known as secondary legislation, whereby a minister can over ride the house to push through legislation.
Now, any might think, yes we know Tories/righties don't like democracy. they tried to block the HoC from having a vote, closed down Parliament and recently had to drop the so called 'sunset clause' which would have sen over 4000 pieces of EU law, which are UK law simply removed without any consultation, but this is perhaps a step too far, even for them.
For my part Labour needs to be challenging and defeating such obvious attempts to bypass democracy. | | | |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 09:00 - Jun 14 with 980 views | Darth_Koont |
Unfortunately, this is right up the Labour right’s and Starmer’s alley.
Authoritarian, anti-democratic, valueless, fetishising power and the interests of the State and the status quo, they’re the worst “opposition” at the worst time. And dangerous too: I genuinely believe that they won’t just be a different strain of the same crap governments over the past couple of decades but they’ll take us to new depths in their eagerness to serve themselves and the narrow but profitable interests of donors, lobbyists and establishment power. |  |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 09:33 - Jun 14 with 909 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:49 - Jun 13 by Wallingford_Boy |
Joke party. Always have been, always will be. |
2/10.
And that's for correct spelling and grammar. |  |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 12:28 - Jun 14 with 774 views | GeoffSentence |
When you see this sort of nonsense you have to admit that Koonters has a point.
It seems there is no-one left to vote for who has a chance of ousting the Tories and offerng decent policies.
Opposing and then rolling back Tory authoritarianism should be an absolute no-brainer for Labour. Whose votes they are after with this I do not know. |  |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 12:47 - Jun 14 with 750 views | giant_stow |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 12:28 - Jun 14 by GeoffSentence |
When you see this sort of nonsense you have to admit that Koonters has a point.
It seems there is no-one left to vote for who has a chance of ousting the Tories and offerng decent policies.
Opposing and then rolling back Tory authoritarianism should be an absolute no-brainer for Labour. Whose votes they are after with this I do not know. |
Yeah, I'll admit the silly old sod has half a point. I would differ though in still finding the Labour party's pragmatism acceptable to get rid of the country killers in power (as long as it doesn't go too far and they start losing people on the left flank in serious numbers).. |  |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 12:55 - Jun 14 with 724 views | BlueRaider |
We need proportional representation as soon as possible, most peoples votes do not count, the election is ultimately decided in probably around 100 constituencies at most. People also tend to vote for what they don't want most out of Lab and Con, so we are not voting positively.
PR would enable people to vote for what they want without fear of letting the others in, it will also allow the two main parties to split into what they should be rather than being the warring broad churches held together by the FPTP system.
The tories could split into a centre right Cameron type party, and a further right party for the loons, similarly Labour could split into a centre left Blair type party and a real socialist party for Corbyn and his chums.
The effect initially would probably see the Tories locked out of power but eventually I think we would see a series of sensible coalitions, and the smaller parties whose policies were popular could be part of them and reflect the feelings of the electorate overall.
Sadly neither of the two main parties seem willing to pursue this as they are happy with the status quo, we badly need to see significant Lib Dem influence after the next election to really push this. | |
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| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 13:24 - Jun 14 with 677 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Labour shooting themselves in the foot again on 23:43 - Jun 13 by HARRY10 |
The sad reality is there are some calling for less democracy and far less local accountability. It is imperative that the decision on who should stand locally be kept to a local decision, not Head Office telling you who you have AFTER the vote.
Like wise the idea that policies can be 'horse traded'- away after a GE is a very dangerous route to go down. It means that 99.99999% of votes don't matter, as who runs the country will be decided by a half dozen or so politicians, in secret, in an unknown committee room.
This comes about through the extremely naive believe that decisions are not binary but are arrived at be committee. And there is no final vote merely some compromise.
We shall have capital punishment but in due accord with the Greens the noose will be made of organic hemp, our Jewish bethren have been listened to and Saturdays will not be use. While in deference to the progressive vote the condemned will be allowed to pull the lever himself
Whereas in the real world one party will have the final say - so please stop kidding yourselves, that having less democracy is the way to go. |
Sorry Harry, you're still in the Stone Age regarding your views on PR - you sound like a resident of Royston Vasey - under PR, the whole point is that parties will (eventually, once they (and the voters) drop the 'total victory or nothing' mantra) come up with policies and manifestos designed for negotiation and the voters will realise that they potentially will have a wider selection of policies to choose from. As for local accountability, why should that be exercised via an MP? There are many other ways to create local accountabilty, vie srtonger local councils and elected Mayors for example. Any local method of electing national representative/policies will always be subject to the vagaries of demographics, gerrymandering, etc, etc. FPTP is the beloved system of the "strongman", which gave us Johnson, Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Orban....... |  |
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