| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% 08:40 - Dec 13 with 2130 views | unstableblue |
When the dust settles on this after Christmas and the Tories press the button on the full Europe exit process; we'll then enter the reality of the detail of Irish Sea border, and the SNP will request a referendum.
The reality of the trade negotiations will also kick-in, plus the true actual cost of Brexit arrangements (yet to hit mainstream media) and the slowing of the economy will begin to bite.
In 5 years time and that 50% opposing the Tory Europe stance, and the reality of where that route takes us, including the Union, a bag of chips could stand for Labour and still win.
What is concerning is even now, Corbyn refuses to immediately stand down. And the Labour party is at its core broken.
Final thing from me, and the lasting memory of this time, is all those Labour North East voters, in areas of great social injustice, who stand to lose most out of Brexit, still repeating the hackneyed and debunked Brexit benefits of the original Leave campaign.
Come on Town thrash Bristol Rovers, give us something to cheer about. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:53 - Dec 13 with 2092 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Said it many, many times, having a very weak opposition has led to this.
Corbyn and his 'neutral' brexit stance. My God, you can only laugh can't you. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:56 - Dec 13 with 2091 views | Swansea_Blue |
Is that how it's ended up %age wise? I'm not surprised given FPTP. If that's true is also gives truth to the lie being spun about more people voting to 'get brexit done'. Not that truth matters of course. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:57 - Dec 13 with 2088 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Labour aren’t a pro-Europe party, you can’t just add their votes to try and spin the message you want |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:58 - Dec 13 with 2083 views | vapour_trail |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:57 - Dec 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Labour aren’t a pro-Europe party, you can’t just add their votes to try and spin the message you want |
That’s nonsense.
The majority of their vote is remain. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:00 - Dec 13 with 2075 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:58 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
That’s nonsense.
The majority of their vote is remain. |
‘Pro Europe stance parties’
They’re not a pro Europe stance party | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:01 - Dec 13 with 2063 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:57 - Dec 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Labour aren’t a pro-Europe party, you can’t just add their votes to try and spin the message you want |
Their leader was neutral. Says it all really lol. | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:03 - Dec 13 with 2057 views | chicoazul |
"In 5 years time and that 50% opposing the Tory Europe stance, and the reality of where that route takes us, including the Union, a bag of chips could stand for Labour and still win."
If I may this is a perfect encapsulation of the majority TWTD position on this issue; a complete misunderstanding of how this country feels, and blaming Labour for sharing that misunderstanding. "Boris" not only won 2019 last night, he won 2024 too, as there is no way Labour can turn around this position to a winning one in 5 years. [Post edited 13 Dec 2019 9:11]
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:06 - Dec 13 with 2023 views | Oxford_Blue |
Apparently Corbyn was neutral.
Or are you suggesting he wasn’t being honest? |  | | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:15 - Dec 13 with 1994 views | WeWereZombies |
Your forecasts may be correct but I think your conclusion is wrong. Labour may now be a spent force, unable to form a socialist alternative that appeals or a centrist party that can put a cigarette paper between its policies and Conservative one.
It is notable that Labour have won only one seat in Scotland, much of the traditional Labour support now looks to the Scottish National Party for social justice (for a number of reasons, some of which may be mistaken) or no longer exists as traditional economic patterns are eroded and a new lower middle class emerges that has to cope with portfolio working and lifestyles. Labour, and to only a slightly lesser extent all the other parties, are not addressing this to any serious extent. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:35 - Dec 13 with 1971 views | Father_Jack |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:03 - Dec 13 by chicoazul |
"In 5 years time and that 50% opposing the Tory Europe stance, and the reality of where that route takes us, including the Union, a bag of chips could stand for Labour and still win."
If I may this is a perfect encapsulation of the majority TWTD position on this issue; a complete misunderstanding of how this country feels, and blaming Labour for sharing that misunderstanding. "Boris" not only won 2019 last night, he won 2024 too, as there is no way Labour can turn around this position to a winning one in 5 years. [Post edited 13 Dec 2019 9:11]
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Don't know why you're referencing 2024. One of the tory manifesto pledges is to do away with the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and there's an awful lot to go wrong before 2024. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:41 - Dec 13 with 1941 views | Barneycurley |
The real tragedy is the traditional labour northern support is abhorrent to Tory policies and yet they feel they couldn't vote for JC - now that's the real tragedy.
Their poor grandparents would be turning in their graves. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:43 - Dec 13 with 1935 views | BloomBlue |
How doid you work out the 50.3%? We dont know if Labour was pro leave or remain so you have to exclude the labour total or split it 50/50. Maybe you did, just tryng to work out how you reached 50.3% |  | | |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:44 - Dec 13 with 1931 views | Decoy_Octopus |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:35 - Dec 13 by Father_Jack |
Don't know why you're referencing 2024. One of the tory manifesto pledges is to do away with the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and there's an awful lot to go wrong before 2024. |
Yep, that and the want to do away with judicial oversight and the ability to pass laws using "Henry VIII powers could let boris call the next election when and if he wants to. |  | | |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:46 - Dec 13 with 1922 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 08:57 - Dec 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Labour aren’t a pro-Europe party, you can’t just add their votes to try and spin the message you want |
That's true, but they were seen as an option by pro-European voters because of their 2nd referendum stance, which is what matters. . | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:48 - Dec 13 with 1917 views | chicoazul |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:41 - Dec 13 by Barneycurley |
The real tragedy is the traditional labour northern support is abhorrent to Tory policies and yet they feel they couldn't vote for JC - now that's the real tragedy.
Their poor grandparents would be turning in their graves. |
Maybe they would, maybe not. It might be that they felt they couldn't vote for a party that they feel has abandoned them and their families for 30 years, ignored their feelings on the EU and the de-industrialisation of the north, and focused instead on the desires of a narrow Metropolitan elite. Let's not forget Corbyn has been a London MP for 40 years, whereas Blair and Brown were both in the North. | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 10:21 - Dec 13 with 1876 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 09:46 - Dec 13 by Swansea_Blue |
That's true, but they were seen as an option by pro-European voters because of their 2nd referendum stance, which is what matters. . |
But they’re not a pro-Europe party, and whilst it’s probably true that the bulk of their voters would be remain it’s completely wrong and innacurate to just lump all of their votes in as being so | |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 10:24 - Dec 13 with 1859 views | Herbivore |
The pro-remain/pro-second referendum parties had their chance to work together for a people's vote once Johnson lost his majority in parliament and they blew it through their own hubris. They could have worked together during the GE campaign and they chose not to. The Tories had a clear message and were able to hoover up more or less all of the leave vote and that's won them the election. |  |
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| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 10:31 - Dec 13 with 1835 views | itfcjoe |
| Pro Europe stance parties 50.3% total vote; Brexit centric 45.6% on 10:24 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
The pro-remain/pro-second referendum parties had their chance to work together for a people's vote once Johnson lost his majority in parliament and they blew it through their own hubris. They could have worked together during the GE campaign and they chose not to. The Tories had a clear message and were able to hoover up more or less all of the leave vote and that's won them the election. |
I listened to Blair the other day - he was saying how Johnson was locked in a box, unable to do anything or go anywhere. Rather than leave him there, twisting the knife and furthering their cause they gave him the key to get out, and he was then able to call an election on his terms when he wanted it.
He should still be struggling around with a minority Govt, but the LDs thought they were going to get 50 seats and be the king makers |  |
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