| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? 16:06 - Nov 13 with 4162 views | giant_stow |
The apparent deal where we appear to promise to bend over for ever more in the hope of one day being set free, seems like it might bring on the very thing they/us want to avoid: a hard border via hard brexit.
I know I must be wrong, but are they over-playing their hand?
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:10 - Nov 13 with 2630 views | linhdi |
Not at all. We're the ones leaving, we're the ones who have failed to engage with them, have insulted them, have obstructed them. In fact, they're being quite patient and rational. |  | | |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:14 - Nov 13 with 2616 views | giant_stow |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:10 - Nov 13 by linhdi |
Not at all. We're the ones leaving, we're the ones who have failed to engage with them, have insulted them, have obstructed them. In fact, they're being quite patient and rational. |
Maybe I'm not making my point very well, but that rationality might bring about exactly what they don;t want. We aren't rational right now! I would say its quite possible that both sides of the debate will hate this deal, which all else being even, leaves a hard brexit / hard border. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:20 - Nov 13 with 2593 views | LeoMuff |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:14 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
Maybe I'm not making my point very well, but that rationality might bring about exactly what they don;t want. We aren't rational right now! I would say its quite possible that both sides of the debate will hate this deal, which all else being even, leaves a hard brexit / hard border. |
There can’t be a hard border or no deal, we have to cobble something together to avoid these as they won’t be allowed to happen.
Mostly meaning wasting billions for a worse deal. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:22 - Nov 13 with 2595 views | Steve_M |
Theresa May promised that there would be no hard border in Ireland, she signed an agreement for a backstop to ensure that this was the case. WTO rules mandate a hard border in the absence of any further agreement.
Now, all the Brexiters who claim there is a simple alternative have yet to come up with one that doesn't involve some kind of magic solution, hence the EU and Ireland will insist on the previously agreed backstop.
It might help the UK case if prominent leave-supporting politicians and pundits weren't continually claiming that we will ditch whatever we sign up to as soon possible. A good way to build trust.
Good work though, this will be a fair few pages. Should have done it in the immediate post-lunch lull. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:22 - Nov 13 with 2585 views | giant_stow |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:20 - Nov 13 by LeoMuff |
There can’t be a hard border or no deal, we have to cobble something together to avoid these as they won’t be allowed to happen.
Mostly meaning wasting billions for a worse deal. |
But what if both deeply entrenched sides can't agree on that cobbling? Its taken two years to come up with this backstop bollox that no one likes afterall and the default fallback is hard brexit.... | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 with 2580 views | J2BLUE |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:22 - Nov 13 by Steve_M |
Theresa May promised that there would be no hard border in Ireland, she signed an agreement for a backstop to ensure that this was the case. WTO rules mandate a hard border in the absence of any further agreement.
Now, all the Brexiters who claim there is a simple alternative have yet to come up with one that doesn't involve some kind of magic solution, hence the EU and Ireland will insist on the previously agreed backstop.
It might help the UK case if prominent leave-supporting politicians and pundits weren't continually claiming that we will ditch whatever we sign up to as soon possible. A good way to build trust.
Good work though, this will be a fair few pages. Should have done it in the immediate post-lunch lull. |
I'm convinced this is all for show before they announce a referendum in January. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 with 2590 views | hampstead_blue |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:10 - Nov 13 by linhdi |
Not at all. We're the ones leaving, we're the ones who have failed to engage with them, have insulted them, have obstructed them. In fact, they're being quite patient and rational. |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:28 - Nov 13 with 2567 views | footers |
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The EU has been more than accommodating considering the incompetence of the current government. But the world's most affluent trading bloc was never going to play hardball with mighty Blighty, was it? They need us as much as we need them lol. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:33 - Nov 13 with 2543 views | giant_stow |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:22 - Nov 13 by Steve_M |
Theresa May promised that there would be no hard border in Ireland, she signed an agreement for a backstop to ensure that this was the case. WTO rules mandate a hard border in the absence of any further agreement.
Now, all the Brexiters who claim there is a simple alternative have yet to come up with one that doesn't involve some kind of magic solution, hence the EU and Ireland will insist on the previously agreed backstop.
It might help the UK case if prominent leave-supporting politicians and pundits weren't continually claiming that we will ditch whatever we sign up to as soon possible. A good way to build trust.
Good work though, this will be a fair few pages. Should have done it in the immediate post-lunch lull. |
cheers steve. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:39 - Nov 13 with 2519 views | Steve_M |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
Ah yes, because the cabinet have demonstrated over the last two years that they are absolutely in control of the detail here. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:39 - Nov 13 with 2514 views | giant_stow |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:28 - Nov 13 by footers |
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The EU has been more than accommodating considering the incompetence of the current government. But the world's most affluent trading bloc was never going to play hardball with mighty Blighty, was it? They need us as much as we need them lol. |
What has the EU given in over? genuine q... | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:42 - Nov 13 with 2502 views | footers |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:39 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
What has the EU given in over? genuine q... |
Nothing. It doesn't have to! | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:43 - Nov 13 with 2496 views | J2BLUE |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:42 - Nov 13 by footers |
Nothing. It doesn't have to! |
Our friends, neighbours and allies haven't given us a single thing? | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:43 - Nov 13 with 2496 views | GeoffSentence |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
The danger was always that this would happen. Making life difficult for us upon departure is necessary for them 'pour encourager les autres'. Keeping the EU together has always been higher priority to the EU than a good deal for us, those who though otherwise ( ahem Liam Fox ) were deluded.
The trouble for the EU is that they are in danger of screwing Ireland over as well unless they can come to terms with the UK. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:54 - Nov 13 with 2456 views | XYZ |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
If true, all this demonstrates is that the UK don't have the right quality of people required to negotiate if all they can do is cry "not fair" when the other side look out for their own interests. | | | |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:56 - Nov 13 with 2451 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:42 - Nov 13 by footers |
Nothing. It doesn't have to! |
So they haven't been more than accommodating? |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 17:03 - Nov 13 with 2437 views | footers |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:56 - Nov 13 by GlasgowBlue |
So they haven't been more than accommodating? |
We're talking about geopolitical negotiation. By that standard yes when faced with a government that can't decide what it wants.
Like I said, to think the EU was going to bend over for Britain is a madness.
We'll likely end up with a half-in-half-out deal and the next 10 years will be the same as the last three. Woop, what fun. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 17:23 - Nov 13 with 2386 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:14 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
Maybe I'm not making my point very well, but that rationality might bring about exactly what they don;t want. We aren't rational right now! I would say its quite possible that both sides of the debate will hate this deal, which all else being even, leaves a hard brexit / hard border. |
Anything that screws us up will cause them a smaller problem in the short term and long term should actually work in their benefit. Foreign investment if not some of our companies themselves will haemorrhage from our economy into theirs.
That doesn't solve a huge problem still for Ireland but it would pay for EU measures to help them out/compensate. Meanwhile, we've p!ssed in our bed and will presumably just have to lie in it.
If we could accept we fecked up then we could still stop this or at least get the type of EEA deal that makes sense for the greater good, even if the man on the street disagrees. The problem is that we've overplayed our hand from the start and no posturing now is going to delay the inevitable loss. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 17:49 - Nov 13 with 2318 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
That's absolute boules.
You don't need to find a conspiracy: They are representing the EU's interests towards someone who is going to become a competitor as much as a partner. Why on earth would the EU concede on any point unless it's in their interests? We're the one who has to give up stuff because we think it's worth leaving.
If the EU really wanted to punish us then they'd be the ones refusing any deal post-Brexit. But again it's our own populist clowns in government that have pushed that possibility.
Quite simply, we've been far too busy playing domestic politics and avoiding reality. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:27 - Nov 13 with 2266 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:54 - Nov 13 by XYZ |
If true, all this demonstrates is that the UK don't have the right quality of people required to negotiate if all they can do is cry "not fair" when the other side look out for their own interests. |
Also important to remember that we'll be spreading that "talent" even thinner when we head out into the world and try to strike a raft of trade deals.
We're either going to lose out on time spent negotiating or on the quality and suitability of the deal compared to the deals struck in our name by the EU. Our representatives will be learning on the job and dealing from a position of weakness too. As everyone from Japan to South America can recognise domestic political pressure and a smaller economy with a slow bleed when they see it.
Sounds like a lot of fun. | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:33 - Nov 13 with 2258 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 17:49 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
That's absolute boules.
You don't need to find a conspiracy: They are representing the EU's interests towards someone who is going to become a competitor as much as a partner. Why on earth would the EU concede on any point unless it's in their interests? We're the one who has to give up stuff because we think it's worth leaving.
If the EU really wanted to punish us then they'd be the ones refusing any deal post-Brexit. But again it's our own populist clowns in government that have pushed that possibility.
Quite simply, we've been far too busy playing domestic politics and avoiding reality. |
Both sides are looking for a lasting agreement that allows uninterrupted free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland. The U.K. Has made it clear NI cannot be treated any different to the rest of the U.K, which means no border down the Irish Sea. The EU make it clear we cannot remain within the customs union.
The back stop is supposed to be a temporary arrangement in force until trade deals are concluded. Everyone knows that full agreement in almost impossible to achieve as it will lead to the prospect of other EU members wanting out.
We are heading for a hard Brexit which is neither in the best interest of the U.K. Nor the EU. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:35 - Nov 13 with 2251 views | gordon |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
I can't think of any reason why a Senior Cabinet Minister would be trying to shift the blame onto the EU here. |  | | |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:44 - Nov 13 with 2231 views | Herbivore |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 16:23 - Nov 13 by hampstead_blue |
I've spoken with a mate who is the right hand man of one of the most senior members of the cabinet on this.
The EU are full of s///. In public they are saying that it's us who wants to leave but behind the scenes Germany and France genuinely want to s==ew us over regardless.
It doesn't matter what we offer they will do everything in their power to scr-- us.
It's all one big PR stunt to make it too scary for the smaller countries to want to leave.
Granted, we've not exactly gone there with a set of awesome ideas, but that's nowt compared to the pure evil that France and the Germans have thought of us. |
I'm calling bullsh!t. |  |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:48 - Nov 13 with 2224 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:33 - Nov 13 by Pinewoodblue |
Both sides are looking for a lasting agreement that allows uninterrupted free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland. The U.K. Has made it clear NI cannot be treated any different to the rest of the U.K, which means no border down the Irish Sea. The EU make it clear we cannot remain within the customs union.
The back stop is supposed to be a temporary arrangement in force until trade deals are concluded. Everyone knows that full agreement in almost impossible to achieve as it will lead to the prospect of other EU members wanting out.
We are heading for a hard Brexit which is neither in the best interest of the U.K. Nor the EU. |
I think there is a will to resolve "the Irish question" on both sides. But the conundrum of the DUP propping up the current government and the incompatibility with the Good Friday agreement are total blocks.
But those are essentially our own UK issues. Unfortunately, this is the problem when politicians play the game of politics rather than focusing on reality and representing the best interests of their citizens. You end up in stupid situations — situations that are completely untenable unless you hold onto the political game and an alliance with the DUP (plus other stupidly nationalistic parts of the electorate) so that you can keep reality and the obvious solution at bay.
Not sure if I've mentioned before how much I hate our politicians and the system that supports them.  | |
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| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:50 - Nov 13 with 2214 views | footers |
| Ireland and the EU pushing us plucky little brits too far? on 18:44 - Nov 13 by Herbivore |
I'm calling bullsh!t. |
Adam Werritty. | |
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