| Trumps having another brain fart 12:11 - Jul 11 with 4322 views | giant_stow |
.too many things going on to keep up at the moment! |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 12:57 - Jul 11 with 2900 views | factual_blue |
You wrongly assume the existence of a brain. |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:01 - Jul 11 with 2890 views | J2BLUE |
Trump's base think he is doing a brilliant job.
You have to give him some credit for various things. The latest being his attack on the NATO spending. If you're an American republican it's brilliant that he is demanding other countries pay their share. |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:09 - Jul 11 with 2863 views | CaptainObvious |
you mean he is telling the truth about NATO countries contributions and the truth about Germany's reliance on Russia? |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:13 - Jul 11 with 2846 views | RegencyBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:01 - Jul 11 by J2BLUE |
Trump's base think he is doing a brilliant job.
You have to give him some credit for various things. The latest being his attack on the NATO spending. If you're an American republican it's brilliant that he is demanding other countries pay their share. |
On this occasion I think he is actually right!
Its how he goes about rectifying the situation which could cause problems! |  | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:31 - Jul 11 with 2811 views | giant_stow |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:09 - Jul 11 by CaptainObvious |
you mean he is telling the truth about NATO countries contributions and the truth about Germany's reliance on Russia? |
Its more the potential hypocrisy - what would Russia most love to result from this summit and who's doing their best to make it happen (and why)? [Post edited 11 Jul 2018 13:39]
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:32 - Jul 11 with 2808 views | giant_stow |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:13 - Jul 11 by RegencyBlue |
On this occasion I think he is actually right!
Its how he goes about rectifying the situation which could cause problems! |
The Americans have had a subservient Europe as payment for NATO spending - its not a one-sided deal. | |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:38 - Jul 11 with 2787 views | No9 |
Trump is essentially on a trip to sell more American military equipment + gas |  | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:40 - Jul 11 with 2777 views | giant_stow |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:38 - Jul 11 by No9 |
Trump is essentially on a trip to sell more American military equipment + gas |
bang on. Aren't they gonna try shipping liquefied gas to Europe? | |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:42 - Jul 11 with 2763 views | GlasgowBlue |
He makes a fair point. |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:42 - Jul 11 with 2765 views | No9 |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:40 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
bang on. Aren't they gonna try shipping liquefied gas to Europe? |
After they relaxed the self imposed laws and have turned their back on other obligations that is a desire. | | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:44 - Jul 11 with 2762 views | giant_stow |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:42 - Jul 11 by GlasgowBlue |
He makes a fair point. |
well this was more controversial than I thought! You wrong mr! | |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:45 - Jul 11 with 2760 views | ghostofescobar |
I think I must be having one as well, as I can see where he's coming from. And I hate myself for it (retreats to a field for a bit of self-flagellation). My normal reaction to anything Trump says begins with "you c0ck...", but on this one I went "you c......oh, actually I can see something in that one". |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:47 - Jul 11 with 2752 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:42 - Jul 11 by GlasgowBlue |
He makes a fair point. |
I assume this is about his NATO comments? Can't see how folk can disagree with the point he is making. | |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:48 - Jul 11 with 2747 views | No9 |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:44 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
well this was more controversial than I thought! You wrong mr! |
It becomes even more controversial when one looks at military restrictions placed on some countries by America & allies after WW2 | | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:51 - Jul 11 with 2734 views | HennikerBlu |
Are you referring to:
1. Germanys dealing with Russia for fuel and a pipeline (I think?) bypassing poorer economically European countries which currently benefit from transit fees? How does this work with the EU's current position regarding the Ukraine/Crimea?
And/or
2. Are you referring to the fact that most EU countries do not pay the NATO agreed 2% of GDP on defence (apart from the UK)?
Is he wrong to highlight these issues?
I think it's important to appreciate the US frustration when it has pretty much guaranteed the safety of Europe since 1945. Europe nowhere near has the capability with conventional forces to deal with a significant threat from any of the super powers.
France and Germany have not always seen 'eye to eye' with the US in some of its foreign enterprises, which coupled with these latest developments does make the future of NATO in Europe less tangible and more likely that the EU will 'further' develop its independent military strategy and arms industry. | | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:52 - Jul 11 with 2728 views | StokieBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:01 - Jul 11 by J2BLUE |
Trump's base think he is doing a brilliant job.
You have to give him some credit for various things. The latest being his attack on the NATO spending. If you're an American republican it's brilliant that he is demanding other countries pay their share. |
It's also just about the only thing he's actually right on.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:53 - Jul 11 with 2719 views | StokieBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:32 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
The Americans have had a subservient Europe as payment for NATO spending - its not a one-sided deal. |
That's really not true though ullaa, can you expand on how Europe has been subservient to the US as I don't think it's true.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:58 - Jul 11 with 2704 views | No9 |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:51 - Jul 11 by HennikerBlu |
Are you referring to:
1. Germanys dealing with Russia for fuel and a pipeline (I think?) bypassing poorer economically European countries which currently benefit from transit fees? How does this work with the EU's current position regarding the Ukraine/Crimea?
And/or
2. Are you referring to the fact that most EU countries do not pay the NATO agreed 2% of GDP on defence (apart from the UK)?
Is he wrong to highlight these issues?
I think it's important to appreciate the US frustration when it has pretty much guaranteed the safety of Europe since 1945. Europe nowhere near has the capability with conventional forces to deal with a significant threat from any of the super powers.
France and Germany have not always seen 'eye to eye' with the US in some of its foreign enterprises, which coupled with these latest developments does make the future of NATO in Europe less tangible and more likely that the EU will 'further' develop its independent military strategy and arms industry. |
Germany does take a lot of gas from Russia but ot can & does also tap into the stuff from the M.E that comes into the EU from the M.E. via Turkey - one of the reasons Turkey is important, & from N. Africa via Italy.
Germany & other EU countries have access to LNG via new re-gas terminals so they are nowhere near as reliant on Russian gas as trump suggests.
The point about what EU countries is valid but per the question I asked how much of this is due to restrictions placed after WW2 & would it mean relaxing any such restrictions IF the militaria is bought from the Americans? | | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:00 - Jul 11 with 2701 views | chicoazul |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:32 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
The Americans have had a subservient Europe as payment for NATO spending - its not a one-sided deal. |
NATO is a cold war relic. Why do we even bother with it now? |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:02 - Jul 11 with 2695 views | StokieBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:00 - Jul 11 by chicoazul |
NATO is a cold war relic. Why do we even bother with it now? |
Because Europe doesn't want to pay for it's defence?
It's also not entirely true, it serves a purpose for smaller countries. For instance, if Ukraine was a member I doubt Russia would have waltzed in and done whatever they liked.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:05 - Jul 11 with 2691 views | No9 |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:00 - Jul 11 by chicoazul |
NATO is a cold war relic. Why do we even bother with it now? |
This may be a first you agreeing with Mr Corbyn who was accused by the government this morning of wanting to get rid of NATO?
Interesting | | | |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:05 - Jul 11 with 2690 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:38 - Jul 11 by No9 |
Trump is essentially on a trip to sell more American military equipment + gas |
Although, beautifully ironically, they themselves appear to be heavily dependent on imported fossil energy.
But when did little things like context worry Trumpy |  |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:06 - Jul 11 with 2687 views | giant_stow |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 13:53 - Jul 11 by StokieBlue |
That's really not true though ullaa, can you expand on how Europe has been subservient to the US as I don't think it's true.
SB |
Well, I'm being thoroughly shot down here innit!
I would say that the fact Europe's armed forces are so weak and dependent on America is proof of subservience. An independently strong Europe would carry more weight in the world - we might not feel the need to join in with stupid wars like Iraq2 if we didn't need to suck up.
The NATO arrangement also suited the yanks perfectly when it was to protect against spreading communism - so again, their spending was self-interested there.
Countries like Germany or Japan hosting tens of thousands of troops is also quite a nice way of exercising power in itself. | |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:11 - Jul 11 with 2677 views | StokieBlue |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:06 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
Well, I'm being thoroughly shot down here innit!
I would say that the fact Europe's armed forces are so weak and dependent on America is proof of subservience. An independently strong Europe would carry more weight in the world - we might not feel the need to join in with stupid wars like Iraq2 if we didn't need to suck up.
The NATO arrangement also suited the yanks perfectly when it was to protect against spreading communism - so again, their spending was self-interested there.
Countries like Germany or Japan hosting tens of thousands of troops is also quite a nice way of exercising power in itself. |
I disagree. Europes armed forces are so comparibly weak because they decided to spend the money giving their citizens a better standard of life knowing they were under the US umbrella whilst US citizens didn't get those benefits because they were paying for the European citizens defence.
That's not subservience, if anything it's parasitic (althought I wouldn't go that far myself).
The Europeans needed NATO to protect them from the USSR, independently they had absolutely no chance of stopping any attacks so surely it suited the Europeans more than the Americans who were quite safe? I would argue that continued existence as an independent country outweights the worry of the spread of communism.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:13 - Jul 11 with 2668 views | No9 |
| Trumps having another brain fart on 14:06 - Jul 11 by giant_stow |
Well, I'm being thoroughly shot down here innit!
I would say that the fact Europe's armed forces are so weak and dependent on America is proof of subservience. An independently strong Europe would carry more weight in the world - we might not feel the need to join in with stupid wars like Iraq2 if we didn't need to suck up.
The NATO arrangement also suited the yanks perfectly when it was to protect against spreading communism - so again, their spending was self-interested there.
Countries like Germany or Japan hosting tens of thousands of troops is also quite a nice way of exercising power in itself. |
The point is that America has tried very hard to make Europe subservient and has not hesitated in damaging European interests where it thinks appropriate.
It is obvious that Trump is on a sales missoin which, if it falls flat will mean a number of difficulties for the EU.
It should not go unoticed that many of they in the brexit group have not been slow to side with the American right (who are behind this) via some organisations such as Atlantic bridge, now in name defunct- but not I fear, in spirit. | | | |
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