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I’ve no sympathy for terrorists but torture by grieving electric shocks to their genitals or cutting off an ear and forcing them to eat it is going to give what ever confession the Russians want. Which is probably to say that they were directed by Ukraine.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:40 - Mar 25 by GlasgowBlue
I’ve no sympathy for terrorists but torture by grieving electric shocks to their genitals or cutting off an ear and forcing them to eat it is going to give what ever confession the Russians want. Which is probably to say that they were directed by Ukraine.
Yeah you’d imagine the second those instruments came out they told them whatever they wanted to h-ear…
They must be mental in the first place to carry the acts out in russia!
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:40 - Mar 25 by GlasgowBlue
I’ve no sympathy for terrorists but torture by grieving electric shocks to their genitals or cutting off an ear and forcing them to eat it is going to give what ever confession the Russians want. Which is probably to say that they were directed by Ukraine.
Is it though? Torture if done properly and carefully does work. Usually it’s a case of when, not if, you get to the truth.
If all the Russians want is a few patsys to take the blame and say the words their captors want regardless of the truth, then you are of course correct.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:54 - Mar 25 with 4147 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:40 - Mar 25 by GlasgowBlue
I’ve no sympathy for terrorists but torture by grieving electric shocks to their genitals or cutting off an ear and forcing them to eat it is going to give what ever confession the Russians want. Which is probably to say that they were directed by Ukraine.
There'll be many who say they got what they deserved and I understand that, but the torture they have been subject to is barbaric. I understand there is even footage of the bloke being force fed his own ear. The shooting is an atrocity, but the torture feels little better to me.
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:05 - Mar 25 with 4061 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:54 - Mar 25 by Whos_blue
There'll be many who say they got what they deserved and I understand that, but the torture they have been subject to is barbaric. I understand there is even footage of the bloke being force fed his own ear. The shooting is an atrocity, but the torture feels little better to me.
Eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:19 - Mar 25 with 4021 views
ISIS terrorists don't normally allow themselves to be captured as easily as that, they normally go out by blowing themselves up or in a shootout. I'm not sure I'd be too quick to assume all is as we are being shown here.
Putin blaming this on Ukraine, despite ISIS repeatedly claiming responsibility. I've guessing this lot won't say much at their 'trial'.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:54 - Mar 25 by Whos_blue
There'll be many who say they got what they deserved and I understand that, but the torture they have been subject to is barbaric. I understand there is even footage of the bloke being force fed his own ear. The shooting is an atrocity, but the torture feels little better to me.
I don't like torture in any case but they must have known if they got caught it was going to be a very uncomfortable experience.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:19 - Mar 25 by Cheltenham_Blue
There's something screwy about it all.
ISIS terrorists don't normally allow themselves to be captured as easily as that, they normally go out by blowing themselves up or in a shootout. I'm not sure I'd be too quick to assume all is as we are being shown here.
Putin blaming this on Ukraine, despite ISIS repeatedly claiming responsibility. I've guessing this lot won't say much at their 'trial'.
"ISIS terrorists don't normally allow themselves to be captured as easily as that, they normally go out by blowing themselves up or in a shootout. I'm not sure I'd be too quick to assume all is as we are being shown here."
It does seem that the response of the security forces to the actual attack was so inept that they were able to escape whereas they would presumably not have been expecting that.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:19 - Mar 25 by Cheltenham_Blue
There's something screwy about it all.
ISIS terrorists don't normally allow themselves to be captured as easily as that, they normally go out by blowing themselves up or in a shootout. I'm not sure I'd be too quick to assume all is as we are being shown here.
Putin blaming this on Ukraine, despite ISIS repeatedly claiming responsibility. I've guessing this lot won't say much at their 'trial'.
Clearly the West had some good intelligence on this, and going public with it makes it harder for Putin to blame Ukraine (albeit he has anyway, but it does ruin his credibility).
I don’t think there’s much more to this than he ignored the warnings, as he is callous and calculated. Letting such an attack(on Russian citizens) go ahead gives an external threat to rally against (and possibly make it easier to justify further conscription).
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:56 - Mar 25 with 3771 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:53 - Mar 25 by Churchman
Is it though? Torture if done properly and carefully does work. Usually it’s a case of when, not if, you get to the truth.
If all the Russians want is a few patsys to take the blame and say the words their captors want regardless of the truth, then you are of course correct.
They didn't need to torture them, Putin is not interested in the "truth"
My sympathy lies with the poor Ukrainians who will no doubt suffer more now because Putin has revealed the "truth"
The torture was just for The Russian public propaganda.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:58 - Mar 25 with 3760 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:36 - Mar 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna
Clearly the West had some good intelligence on this, and going public with it makes it harder for Putin to blame Ukraine (albeit he has anyway, but it does ruin his credibility).
I don’t think there’s much more to this than he ignored the warnings, as he is callous and calculated. Letting such an attack(on Russian citizens) go ahead gives an external threat to rally against (and possibly make it easier to justify further conscription).
Does Putin have any credibility to ruin outside of Russia? It has worked well for him. At the cost of 100+ lives he has reenforced his argument for escalating the war with Ukraine. The really unfortunate this is that the vast majority of Russians will be taken in
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 10:24 - Mar 25 with 3623 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:53 - Mar 25 by Churchman
Is it though? Torture if done properly and carefully does work. Usually it’s a case of when, not if, you get to the truth.
If all the Russians want is a few patsys to take the blame and say the words their captors want regardless of the truth, then you are of course correct.
There is very little evidence that torture does work in getting to the truth. People in pain say whatever they think those inflicting it want to hear. Anything to make it stop.
To quote US General Mattis: "I've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture."
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:54 - Mar 25 by Whos_blue
There'll be many who say they got what they deserved and I understand that, but the torture they have been subject to is barbaric. I understand there is even footage of the bloke being force fed his own ear. The shooting is an atrocity, but the torture feels little better to me.
There’s a certain irony of the Russians getting so upset about some terrorists when they’ve sent hundreds of thousands of their own across the border in the last 2 years.
ISIS members deserve no quarter, and I’ve no issues with what the Russians want to do with them. Clearly the four of them have the combined IQ of a sponge but they seemed to have no problems gunning down a load of civilians. Makes me wonder if maybe they’ll be given a commission into the Russian army, they’re already more than qualified.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 10:41 - Mar 25 with 3520 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 08:53 - Mar 25 by Churchman
Is it though? Torture if done properly and carefully does work. Usually it’s a case of when, not if, you get to the truth.
If all the Russians want is a few patsys to take the blame and say the words their captors want regardless of the truth, then you are of course correct.
I would dispute your claim of torture working having recently read 'A Pacifist At War' by Ray Jenkins, a biography of Francis Cammaerts (SOE operative with overall responsibility for contact with French Resistance in South East France from 1943 to 1945.) Vert few Resistance fighters who were captured broke under SS torture, one of the reasons why Resistance operations continued was down to how few names the Nazis could get out of their prisoners, who were generally subjected to torture over a much longer period than the four in the Moscow court.
Edit: Added 'in South East France' because I went and forgot to put it in first time around.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 09:19 - Mar 25 by Cheltenham_Blue
There's something screwy about it all.
ISIS terrorists don't normally allow themselves to be captured as easily as that, they normally go out by blowing themselves up or in a shootout. I'm not sure I'd be too quick to assume all is as we are being shown here.
Putin blaming this on Ukraine, despite ISIS repeatedly claiming responsibility. I've guessing this lot won't say much at their 'trial'.
I agree
Wouldn't surprise me if the perpetrators shot themselves and the Russians picked out 4 brownish people at random (possibly from one of their own prisons) and said it was them.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
The old Russians don’t mess about on 10:24 - Mar 25 by Guthrum
There is very little evidence that torture does work in getting to the truth. People in pain say whatever they think those inflicting it want to hear. Anything to make it stop.
To quote US General Mattis: "I've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture."
I think it depends on how it’s conducted, assuming you’ve got past the moral repugnance of the very idea. An interesting article on it:
Guy Fawkes of course spilled the beans after a little spell on the rack. The conspirators named were all guilty and convicted - or were they?? It is rumoured he was first confined in a room in The Tower called ‘little ease’ which was just under 4 feet in size. No sleep, no sitting down, no standing, dark, no sound, pretty airless, absolute agony. 17c softening up I suppose. This form of torture was commonly used across Europe though the Tower version is just a rumour..
Richard 1st would strap Saladin’s lot down with their feet over a brazier and slowly roast them off. Allegedly quite effective in two ways - information and also returning the victim back to his friends disabled with a bag of bones round his neck. Ahh, the Crusades. All in the name of god I suppose. Saladin of course had his own trusty methods.
Of course, the much cleverer way of getting information is the exact opposite. Senior WW2 German officers were housed in posh mansions, fed, watered looked after, treated above and beyond. In the ease of comfort and with their own comrades and a drop or two of wine, they talked with each other about anything and everything in time. They didn’t realise everywhere was bugged. Doh!
Find your enemy’s weakness.
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The old Russians don’t mess about on 16:52 - Mar 25 with 2326 views
The old Russians don’t mess about on 13:03 - Mar 25 by Steve_M
There is a propaganda video put out on ISIS channels which looks to feature the same individuals, blurred faces but clothing matches etc.
If I can find it again I'll post the comparison here (which is just that rather than a snuff video).
it's here:
Investigative journalists at The Insider (Bellingcat's Russian partner) studied clothing visible in terrorist photos from Amaq News Agency & published arrest photos of the Moscow concert hall attackers. The Insider's conclusion: these are the same men. https://t.co/UyGbF0zFsfpic.twitter.com/MHAmybxmkH
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