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Can't you see the utter stupidity of what Joe from Stirling said?
It's up there with the diabetic who, during brexit, said he didn't care if a no deal brexit mean he was no longer able to get the insulin keeping him alive.
The flag is thought to go back to the crusades, maybe earlier. So 1000 years ago would be a little more accurate.
Personally, I don’t think it should be messed about with any more than the Scottish Saltire flag should have Nicola Sturgeon’s Winnebago on it or the Welsh dragon replaced with a terrier. Just a view and an image on an overpriced bin bag of a shirt is hardly going to keep me awake at night.
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Quote of the day to unpick on 22:22 - Mar 22 with 1672 views
Quote of the day to unpick on 22:22 - Mar 22 by Churchman
The flag is thought to go back to the crusades, maybe earlier. So 1000 years ago would be a little more accurate.
Personally, I don’t think it should be messed about with any more than the Scottish Saltire flag should have Nicola Sturgeon’s Winnebago on it or the Welsh dragon replaced with a terrier. Just a view and an image on an overpriced bin bag of a shirt is hardly going to keep me awake at night.
It wasn't a flag of England until much later than that. Whilst it featured in royal coats of arms from the late 14th century, it wasn't really a national flag until the dynastic union of England and Scotland in 1603.
The notion of nationhood and the symbols of nationhood is complex, and nations weren't really a concept in medieval Europe: the Hundred Years' War, for example, wasn't a war between the nations of England and France, but between feuding dynasties about who owed allegiance to whom.
The football connection is even more recent. If you look at footage of the 1966 World Cup Final, most of the flags in Wembley were the Union Flag, not that of St George.
Quote of the day to unpick on 22:37 - Mar 22 by factual_blue
It wasn't a flag of England until much later than that. Whilst it featured in royal coats of arms from the late 14th century, it wasn't really a national flag until the dynastic union of England and Scotland in 1603.
The notion of nationhood and the symbols of nationhood is complex, and nations weren't really a concept in medieval Europe: the Hundred Years' War, for example, wasn't a war between the nations of England and France, but between feuding dynasties about who owed allegiance to whom.
The football connection is even more recent. If you look at footage of the 1966 World Cup Final, most of the flags in Wembley were the Union Flag, not that of St George.
Although the Union flag was a Scots idea (James I of England was James VI of Scotland first) so maybe Joe in Stirling was just getting sentimental about the inclusion of the Cross of St George into his national flag. On the other hand there were a couple of nasty and very bloody defeats for England in Stirling. There again the Waitrose must make it practically English these days..
Quote of the day to unpick on 23:38 - Mar 22 by WeWereZombies
Although the Union flag was a Scots idea (James I of England was James VI of Scotland first) so maybe Joe in Stirling was just getting sentimental about the inclusion of the Cross of St George into his national flag. On the other hand there were a couple of nasty and very bloody defeats for England in Stirling. There again the Waitrose must make it practically English these days..
I think the most plausible explanation is that Joe in Stirling hasn't a clue what he's talking about.
These were the King's Colours put together for the Union of the Crowns in 1603. As you say, James V!/! doodled a number of designs, when not writing Witch-hunting For Dummies.
Quote of the day to unpick on 22:21 - Mar 22 by factual_blue
Oh dear.
More silly downvoting.
Can't you see the utter stupidity of what Joe from Stirling said?
It's up there with the diabetic who, during brexit, said he didn't care if a no deal brexit mean he was no longer able to get the insulin keeping him alive.
I think poor old bluebudgie is one of those odd sorts who’d buy a half and half scarf.
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Quote of the day to unpick on 00:00 - Mar 23 with 1500 views
Quote of the day to unpick on 22:37 - Mar 22 by factual_blue
It wasn't a flag of England until much later than that. Whilst it featured in royal coats of arms from the late 14th century, it wasn't really a national flag until the dynastic union of England and Scotland in 1603.
The notion of nationhood and the symbols of nationhood is complex, and nations weren't really a concept in medieval Europe: the Hundred Years' War, for example, wasn't a war between the nations of England and France, but between feuding dynasties about who owed allegiance to whom.
The football connection is even more recent. If you look at footage of the 1966 World Cup Final, most of the flags in Wembley were the Union Flag, not that of St George.
Fair enough. Interesting stuff. I need to do some reading!
Flags, banners, symbols, coats of arms tended to be rallying points, is my understanding. The dragon of Wessex (Alfred TG), the boar (Richard 3rd) all the way back. The Conquerers flag was Red Cross bordered in yellow on a red background and a couple of lions, looking at the interweb. Harold’s flag appears to have been red with a mush waving an axe about. No wonder he lost.
I do know England was not unified until Athelstan finally booted out the Vikings in the 10c hence my incorrect 1000 year assumption
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Quote of the day to unpick on 06:29 - Mar 23 with 1396 views
Quote of the day to unpick on 00:00 - Mar 23 by Churchman
Fair enough. Interesting stuff. I need to do some reading!
Flags, banners, symbols, coats of arms tended to be rallying points, is my understanding. The dragon of Wessex (Alfred TG), the boar (Richard 3rd) all the way back. The Conquerers flag was Red Cross bordered in yellow on a red background and a couple of lions, looking at the interweb. Harold’s flag appears to have been red with a mush waving an axe about. No wonder he lost.
I do know England was not unified until Athelstan finally booted out the Vikings in the 10c hence my incorrect 1000 year assumption
If you want a book about national identity formation on this island, Linda Colley, Britons: Forging the Nation, 1707-1837 is a really good one. You might also like Hobsbawm and Ranger, The Invention of Tradition, which is all about how the Victorians went about constructing a lot of our eternal-seeming national traditions.
I couldn’t believe callers were getting so wound up about it. Two women almost screamed at each other and Campbell. Shame people don’t get so animated when the subject is on more serious matters like food banks.
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Quote of the day to unpick on 08:07 - Mar 23 with 1283 views
Quote of the day to unpick on 06:51 - Mar 23 by BlueNomad
I couldn’t believe callers were getting so wound up about it. Two women almost screamed at each other and Campbell. Shame people don’t get so animated when the subject is on more serious matters like food banks.
This is society now. You are 100% for or 100% against. If you have a moderate sensible opinion then you upset both sides.
I like tradition. I would have the flag in the national colours but it's not so who cares? As a country, if all most people have to worry about is the colour of a tiny flag on a football shirt then we are pretty damn lucky.
Quote of the day to unpick on 08:07 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE
This is society now. You are 100% for or 100% against. If you have a moderate sensible opinion then you upset both sides.
I like tradition. I would have the flag in the national colours but it's not so who cares? As a country, if all most people have to worry about is the colour of a tiny flag on a football shirt then we are pretty damn lucky.
St Edmund should of course still be patron Saint of England.
Quote of the day to unpick on 08:07 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE
This is society now. You are 100% for or 100% against. If you have a moderate sensible opinion then you upset both sides.
I like tradition. I would have the flag in the national colours but it's not so who cares? As a country, if all most people have to worry about is the colour of a tiny flag on a football shirt then we are pretty damn lucky.
Think most on here are of the view that getting upset about a flag is just very silly. Personally I'm not bothered at all, I can understand those like you who say they'd prefer it's just the normal flag but you're not going to lose any sleep over it. Sadly, the most oxygen is given to those who do seem to be losing their heads over it, calling it woke, linking it to LGBTQ issues and all other sorts of things that it seemingly has nothing to do with. Imagine prominent politicians feeling they need to express a view about a football shirt because such a fuss has been made over it in some very vocal quarters. Country has lost its head.
Quote of the day to unpick on 22:21 - Mar 22 by factual_blue
Oh dear.
More silly downvoting.
Can't you see the utter stupidity of what Joe from Stirling said?
It's up there with the diabetic who, during brexit, said he didn't care if a no deal brexit mean he was no longer able to get the insulin keeping him alive.
It's a little known fact the farmboy George's cross (as the flag was originally known) was flown for the first time off the top of the large saracen stone at stonehenge in April 2023BC. It was first flown in order to commemorate the successful slaying of a local dragon by a big eared farmboy called George just outside Stowmarket village .
# Time to replace George with Edmund
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Quote of the day to unpick on 11:45 - Mar 23 with 962 views
Quote of the day to unpick on 09:58 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue
It's a little known fact the farmboy George's cross (as the flag was originally known) was flown for the first time off the top of the large saracen stone at stonehenge in April 2023BC. It was first flown in order to commemorate the successful slaying of a local dragon by a big eared farmboy called George just outside Stowmarket village .
# Time to replace George with Edmund
Saracen stone ? Next you will be telling us that malt vinegar is made by grinding down sarsens...
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