| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? 09:11 - Dec 24 with 4902 views | GlasgowBlue |
Seen a lot of talk about needing back up for Hirst. Or back up fur Morsy. Or more cover in defence.
But in the last transfer window, when we were second in the league, we brought in 4 players specifically to improve the starting eleven. Hirst to replace Ladapo who was our highest scorer in the league for several seasons, Broadhead fir Harness who had a great first half to the season but was admittedly struggling after a bad injury, Clarke for Donacien who had been the previous season’s POTY runner up and wasn’t seen particularly as vulnerable, and Luongo in midfield who at the time was seen as a punt but very much back up until he made himself undropable.
So I if we do similar this year who do we see as being vulnerable in our accepted best eleven? |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:27 - Dec 24 with 3186 views | FrimleyBlue |
Broadhead
Burns
Clarke
Hirst |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:36 - Dec 24 with 3167 views | Scuzzer |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:27 - Dec 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Broadhead
Burns
Clarke
Hirst |
No way Burns. The other three yes. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:50 - Dec 24 with 3124 views | PioneerBlue |
It’s semantics. It’s no longer 11 players, 14-16 players are needed to share minutes and ensure no dip in capability on the pitch or additions in the group to offer different attributes which allows you to change the state of a game, Eg close up, chase down, be more direct, whatever.
We seem to have 11 nailed on starters, plus Walton, Williams, Tuanzebe, Edmundson, Ball, Taylor, Harness, Hutch. After that we are into the big drop off, Aluko, Jackson, Ladapo, Donacien. Arguably, in all that there are 2-3 potential game changes which isn’t enough to cover loss of form or injury in the second half of the season for any of the front 4.
Looking at it this way, I’d say targets in this order are
Striker
Another decent 10 to play left side unless able to play as striker too
CM
Full back [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 11:10]
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:07 - Dec 24 with 3036 views | GlasgowBlue |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:27 - Dec 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Broadhead
Burns
Clarke
Hirst |
Isn't a fully fit and in form Williams the upgrade on Clarke?
I'd say Woolfy or Burgess. Neither deserve to lose their place but we are desperately missing a vocal leader in the centre of defence who can organise our backline. A younger and fitter version of Keogh in my humble opinion. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:12 - Dec 24 with 2993 views | Herbivore |
I think we'll be after players who can at least push to be regular starters, that has to be the aim. I also expect there'll be an element of succession planning, our midfield duo aren't getting any younger and whilst Taylor is improving we could do with a 20 something Championship ready CM, ideally someone with a bit of physicality. One of our issues defensively is that when sides break on us, neither of the CMs really has the legs to get back and snuff out the danger and it leaves us exposed at the back. Another striker to compete with Hirst is also a must and possibly someone to put a bit more pressure on Broadhead and Chaplin as well. That's an area we could do with a bit more competition as those positions functioning is so key to how we play and if they are off it we suffer as a team. If Williams goes (which a few have suggested might happen) we need more competition in the full back areas too. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:17 - Dec 24 with 2965 views | pointofblue |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 09:50 - Dec 24 by PioneerBlue |
It’s semantics. It’s no longer 11 players, 14-16 players are needed to share minutes and ensure no dip in capability on the pitch or additions in the group to offer different attributes which allows you to change the state of a game, Eg close up, chase down, be more direct, whatever.
We seem to have 11 nailed on starters, plus Walton, Williams, Tuanzebe, Edmundson, Ball, Taylor, Harness, Hutch. After that we are into the big drop off, Aluko, Jackson, Ladapo, Donacien. Arguably, in all that there are 2-3 potential game changes which isn’t enough to cover loss of form or injury in the second half of the season for any of the front 4.
Looking at it this way, I’d say targets in this order are
Striker
Another decent 10 to play left side unless able to play as striker too
CM
Full back [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 11:10]
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This will be controversial but part of me feels Donacien deserves a chance at right back when he returns from injury. I'd say defensively we looked at our most stable with him there plus we recorded three results which kick-started our season, including what I would still say was our best overall performance against Stoke.
I find it interesting that, arguably, the four positions which need looking at the most are the four we invested in last January - RB, CM, 10 and ST. Maybe it shows a pattern of how we're developing the squad with LB (Williams), CB (Tuanzebe) and RW (Hutchinson) worked on over the summer - albeit Taylor hasn't had as much an impact as I expected considering the relative outlay. I do wonder how he would do in Broadhead's number ten position when the latter is struggling or needs a break. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:18 - Dec 24 with 2950 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The. reason Town signed Hirst, Broadhead and Davis is that they were proven to be not good enough for the championship in Hirst and Broadhead’s case and Davis deemed not good enough by Leeds.
Evidence suggests so far that all three are adequate in this division… and joint top scorers in the division at Xmas suggests it would be difficult to improve that area.
The defence is the weakest in the top 6 which clearly is a problem - but that might be do with the te trendy insistence on full backs who cannot defend and the gang ho style of play.
Maybe rather than yet more signings the answer is to tighten up the defence - there are literally a dozen spare parts fighting for bench space most of whom would not be keen to move on | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:26 - Dec 24 with 2944 views | Herbivore |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:18 - Dec 24 by ElephantintheRoom |
The. reason Town signed Hirst, Broadhead and Davis is that they were proven to be not good enough for the championship in Hirst and Broadhead’s case and Davis deemed not good enough by Leeds.
Evidence suggests so far that all three are adequate in this division… and joint top scorers in the division at Xmas suggests it would be difficult to improve that area.
The defence is the weakest in the top 6 which clearly is a problem - but that might be do with the te trendy insistence on full backs who cannot defend and the gang ho style of play.
Maybe rather than yet more signings the answer is to tighten up the defence - there are literally a dozen spare parts fighting for bench space most of whom would not be keen to move on |
Ooh, so edgy. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:26 - Dec 24 with 2945 views | Dennyx4 |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:07 - Dec 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Isn't a fully fit and in form Williams the upgrade on Clarke?
I'd say Woolfy or Burgess. Neither deserve to lose their place but we are desperately missing a vocal leader in the centre of defence who can organise our backline. A younger and fitter version of Keogh in my humble opinion. |
I agree a Mowbray type centre half (vocal and a leader) would be a great addition.
In all honesty though if we can improve any of the starting 11 at the right price, it would be a good time to do it. |  | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:33 - Dec 24 with 2922 views | bazza |
Solid CB, and a striker. Wolfy and hirst. |  | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:34 - Dec 24 with 2910 views | bazza |
Jordan Rhodes has scored 15 for Blackpool 🫣 | | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:50 - Dec 24 with 2880 views | jayessess |
I think it's always about improving the main first eleven, isn't it? If we're talking about the kind of player that really makes the difference between winning promotion or not, they're going to need to be playing the vast majority of the time, going to be better than almost all the players we already have. Replacing your impact subs and reserves might feel like it's "strengthening", but it's not going to move the needle significantly, not really.
If you're going big then the question is who in the first XI isn't conceivably improved on by a £5-8m player or a very high quality loan? For me that's probably only Davis, Morsy, Chaplin, so every other position you could conceivably recruit into.
If we're being steadier with our medium/long-term squad planning, I think in practice there's a lot of obstacles.
Hladky: I think you'll find more complete goalkeepers in terms of handling/shot stopping, but not with his passing range and we really can't do without it.
Clarke/Williams: Lots of people have identified RB as a weakness (more than is fair sometimes), but in practice we already "upgraded" here when we brought Williams in this Summer. Clarke's a longer-term project, when Williams is on it, he's precisely the calibre of player we'd look to recruit here anyway.
Woolfenden/Tuanzebe: You could recruit better here for serious money, but both Woolfenden and Tuanzebe are projects, Woolfie because he's a young ball-playing centre back and therefore potentially a big asset, Tuanzebe because much as it didn't feel like it yesterday, there's a Premier League centre half in there if we can keep him at a good level of match fitness. You realistically have to terminate at least one of those projects if we sign someone here.
Burgess: We obviously tried to recruit in the Summer to go above Burgess in the pecking order. Subsequently he's been our best centre back, largely flawless (OK, not yesterday) and central to how we defend our box. He's also basically the epitome of McKenna's coaching philosophy. LCB's are also absolute murder to recruit.
Luongo/Taylor: Like the RB situation, the LCM position is complicated by the queue we already established in the Summer. Luongo and Taylor both have their limits, but probably hard to justify going again on this recruitment.
Burns/Hutchinson: As we learnt during his injury absence, Burns is absolutely vital to how we play. The runs he makes, his tactical awareness, all vital for a shape. We've already recruited the next cab off the rank here and are we conceivably going to recruit a better PL loanee than Hutchinson?
Broadhead: A lot of goal contributions like Chaplin, but more inconsistent. I'd say his peaks are better than any other attacking player we have and that makes it difficult to recruit over the top of him. I think you could find a more consistent contributor but not one whose top level is quite so high.
Hirst: Been immense for us, lots of goal contributions, dominated lots of defences, fee looks derisory now. I think you'd be looking at a pretty huge fee for a striker who is as good, let alone a better one.
For me, that only leaves three positions in the possible first XI replacement pile: LCB, left forward, centre forward. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 12:41 - Dec 24 with 2783 views | Kev_W |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:50 - Dec 24 by jayessess |
I think it's always about improving the main first eleven, isn't it? If we're talking about the kind of player that really makes the difference between winning promotion or not, they're going to need to be playing the vast majority of the time, going to be better than almost all the players we already have. Replacing your impact subs and reserves might feel like it's "strengthening", but it's not going to move the needle significantly, not really.
If you're going big then the question is who in the first XI isn't conceivably improved on by a £5-8m player or a very high quality loan? For me that's probably only Davis, Morsy, Chaplin, so every other position you could conceivably recruit into.
If we're being steadier with our medium/long-term squad planning, I think in practice there's a lot of obstacles.
Hladky: I think you'll find more complete goalkeepers in terms of handling/shot stopping, but not with his passing range and we really can't do without it.
Clarke/Williams: Lots of people have identified RB as a weakness (more than is fair sometimes), but in practice we already "upgraded" here when we brought Williams in this Summer. Clarke's a longer-term project, when Williams is on it, he's precisely the calibre of player we'd look to recruit here anyway.
Woolfenden/Tuanzebe: You could recruit better here for serious money, but both Woolfenden and Tuanzebe are projects, Woolfie because he's a young ball-playing centre back and therefore potentially a big asset, Tuanzebe because much as it didn't feel like it yesterday, there's a Premier League centre half in there if we can keep him at a good level of match fitness. You realistically have to terminate at least one of those projects if we sign someone here.
Burgess: We obviously tried to recruit in the Summer to go above Burgess in the pecking order. Subsequently he's been our best centre back, largely flawless (OK, not yesterday) and central to how we defend our box. He's also basically the epitome of McKenna's coaching philosophy. LCB's are also absolute murder to recruit.
Luongo/Taylor: Like the RB situation, the LCM position is complicated by the queue we already established in the Summer. Luongo and Taylor both have their limits, but probably hard to justify going again on this recruitment.
Burns/Hutchinson: As we learnt during his injury absence, Burns is absolutely vital to how we play. The runs he makes, his tactical awareness, all vital for a shape. We've already recruited the next cab off the rank here and are we conceivably going to recruit a better PL loanee than Hutchinson?
Broadhead: A lot of goal contributions like Chaplin, but more inconsistent. I'd say his peaks are better than any other attacking player we have and that makes it difficult to recruit over the top of him. I think you could find a more consistent contributor but not one whose top level is quite so high.
Hirst: Been immense for us, lots of goal contributions, dominated lots of defences, fee looks derisory now. I think you'd be looking at a pretty huge fee for a striker who is as good, let alone a better one.
For me, that only leaves three positions in the possible first XI replacement pile: LCB, left forward, centre forward. |
There's a lot of sense there.
The other big factor is availability of targets at a price we can pay. Unless this has now been built , we remain hindered by our lack of recruitment activities outside the UK. This means we are shopping in a relatively small competitive pool.
With so many Championship clubs feeling they can still make the playoffs the options for recruiting stronger players from within this league may be limited.
If a player with right physical and technical abilities is available, providing they fit McKenna's approach and club ethos, then we will be interested irrespective of their playing position. | | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 13:19 - Dec 24 with 2693 views | Radlett_blue |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:34 - Dec 24 by bazza |
Jordan Rhodes has scored 15 for Blackpool 🫣 |
And Armando Dobra scored his 6th of the season for Chesterfield, who are ripping up the National League. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 13:54 - Dec 24 with 2608 views | SouthfieldsBlue |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 11:50 - Dec 24 by jayessess |
I think it's always about improving the main first eleven, isn't it? If we're talking about the kind of player that really makes the difference between winning promotion or not, they're going to need to be playing the vast majority of the time, going to be better than almost all the players we already have. Replacing your impact subs and reserves might feel like it's "strengthening", but it's not going to move the needle significantly, not really.
If you're going big then the question is who in the first XI isn't conceivably improved on by a £5-8m player or a very high quality loan? For me that's probably only Davis, Morsy, Chaplin, so every other position you could conceivably recruit into.
If we're being steadier with our medium/long-term squad planning, I think in practice there's a lot of obstacles.
Hladky: I think you'll find more complete goalkeepers in terms of handling/shot stopping, but not with his passing range and we really can't do without it.
Clarke/Williams: Lots of people have identified RB as a weakness (more than is fair sometimes), but in practice we already "upgraded" here when we brought Williams in this Summer. Clarke's a longer-term project, when Williams is on it, he's precisely the calibre of player we'd look to recruit here anyway.
Woolfenden/Tuanzebe: You could recruit better here for serious money, but both Woolfenden and Tuanzebe are projects, Woolfie because he's a young ball-playing centre back and therefore potentially a big asset, Tuanzebe because much as it didn't feel like it yesterday, there's a Premier League centre half in there if we can keep him at a good level of match fitness. You realistically have to terminate at least one of those projects if we sign someone here.
Burgess: We obviously tried to recruit in the Summer to go above Burgess in the pecking order. Subsequently he's been our best centre back, largely flawless (OK, not yesterday) and central to how we defend our box. He's also basically the epitome of McKenna's coaching philosophy. LCB's are also absolute murder to recruit.
Luongo/Taylor: Like the RB situation, the LCM position is complicated by the queue we already established in the Summer. Luongo and Taylor both have their limits, but probably hard to justify going again on this recruitment.
Burns/Hutchinson: As we learnt during his injury absence, Burns is absolutely vital to how we play. The runs he makes, his tactical awareness, all vital for a shape. We've already recruited the next cab off the rank here and are we conceivably going to recruit a better PL loanee than Hutchinson?
Broadhead: A lot of goal contributions like Chaplin, but more inconsistent. I'd say his peaks are better than any other attacking player we have and that makes it difficult to recruit over the top of him. I think you could find a more consistent contributor but not one whose top level is quite so high.
Hirst: Been immense for us, lots of goal contributions, dominated lots of defences, fee looks derisory now. I think you'd be looking at a pretty huge fee for a striker who is as good, let alone a better one.
For me, that only leaves three positions in the possible first XI replacement pile: LCB, left forward, centre forward. |
I would agree that LCB is probably the most important position for a new starter, Burgess is going to be missing for about a 3rd of the remaining games, and whilst i get people like his box defending qualities, his quality on the ball is increasingly limiting us and puts a lot of pressure on the RCB to find the out ball for us.
We clearly need another striker who is similar to Hirst, and maybe a different type of LF either a mirror of Burns so we can switch up the sides of the press or a more creative Celina type, rather than the two shadow strikers we have there currently. | | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:05 - Dec 24 with 2577 views | Kieran_Knows |
Improve both areas of the squad.
Said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m in no doubt that McKenna has improved the likes of Donacien, Jackson and Ladapo, however our standard/quality has moved on considerably and they unfortunately fall real short of where we are at the minute, and that shows whenever they have to come in to the starting 11. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:18 - Dec 24 with 2523 views | billlm |
Improving the first 11 is improving the squad,first timers now would become squad players |  | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:24 - Dec 24 with 2489 views | AVJones |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:05 - Dec 24 by Kieran_Knows |
Improve both areas of the squad.
Said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m in no doubt that McKenna has improved the likes of Donacien, Jackson and Ladapo, however our standard/quality has moved on considerably and they unfortunately fall real short of where we are at the minute, and that shows whenever they have to come in to the starting 11. |
Nonsense, there’s no evidence that is true. They’ve only started just 7 games between them, with no effect at all on results:
Donacien, 3 starts, 3 wins
Ladapo, 1 start, 1 win
Jackson, 3 starts: 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss (Leeds, Home)
I’d agree they are not as good as those in the starting line-up. Which is why they’re not in the starting line-up!
We can assume/guess it would lead to a worse performance, but that’s not the same. | | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:24 - Dec 24 with 2484 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
I think, Glasses, that your memory is playing tricks with you. In your second paragraph you mention the last transfer window but presumably mean the last but one, ie last January.
Freddie Ladapo, you say, 'was our highest scorer in the league for several seasons'. Freddie signed for us at the end of May 2022 so, when last January's window opened, he'd been at the club for seven months. |  |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:27 - Dec 24 with 2466 views | Herbivore |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:24 - Dec 24 by Tangledupin_Blue |
I think, Glasses, that your memory is playing tricks with you. In your second paragraph you mention the last transfer window but presumably mean the last but one, ie last January.
Freddie Ladapo, you say, 'was our highest scorer in the league for several seasons'. Freddie signed for us at the end of May 2022 so, when last January's window opened, he'd been at the club for seven months. |
Re Ladapo, I think he means Ipswich's highest scorer for several seasons, i.e. scored more than anyone had for us for a number of years. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:31 - Dec 24 with 2437 views | Kieran_Knows |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:24 - Dec 24 by AVJones |
Nonsense, there’s no evidence that is true. They’ve only started just 7 games between them, with no effect at all on results:
Donacien, 3 starts, 3 wins
Ladapo, 1 start, 1 win
Jackson, 3 starts: 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss (Leeds, Home)
I’d agree they are not as good as those in the starting line-up. Which is why they’re not in the starting line-up!
We can assume/guess it would lead to a worse performance, but that’s not the same. |
I probably meant whenever they had to come in to lineup to start or as a sub. You can see the tail off in quality either way.
But we’ve moved on, and I think it’s probably time they do too. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:36 - Dec 24 with 2388 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:27 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
Re Ladapo, I think he means Ipswich's highest scorer for several seasons, i.e. scored more than anyone had for us for a number of years. |
Oh gawd! Didn't read it that way at all. I think I have just had a senior moment, possibly induced by Christmas spirit.
Sorry Glassers... as you were... | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:50 - Dec 24 with 2334 views | AVJones |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:31 - Dec 24 by Kieran_Knows |
I probably meant whenever they had to come in to lineup to start or as a sub. You can see the tail off in quality either way.
But we’ve moved on, and I think it’s probably time they do too. |
Fair enough, and I agree on Ladapo and Donacien and think they’ll move on soon, hopefully next month.
Jackson’s pace and knowledge of our system keeps him in my squad this season. He’s still useful. | | | |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:58 - Dec 24 with 2291 views | jayessess |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:50 - Dec 24 by AVJones |
Fair enough, and I agree on Ladapo and Donacien and think they’ll move on soon, hopefully next month.
Jackson’s pace and knowledge of our system keeps him in my squad this season. He’s still useful. |
With Scarlett being recalled by Tottenham I think the calculus probably changes. Big ask to go and get two strikers in one January window. | |
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| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 15:01 - Dec 24 with 2269 views | AVJones |
| January transfer window = improving the squad or improving the first eleven? on 14:58 - Dec 24 by jayessess |
With Scarlett being recalled by Tottenham I think the calculus probably changes. Big ask to go and get two strikers in one January window. |
Good point. Going to be an interesting few weeks. Suspect we’ll get some players no one has guessed at. | | | |
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